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CentreOfTheUniverse

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Everything posted by CentreOfTheUniverse

  1. as much as i like Jorn one cant help thinking that if by some weird event a certain Mr.Coverdale had never been born that Jorn´s voice would sound a lot different :P
  2. hey guys, hope you all had a nice Christmas! the difference i would say i can hear is that the second clip sounds louder to me (at the beginning anyway) and also the vowels on the higher stuff sounds possibly slightly wider/bigger (once again possibly more so at the beginning). i think these two aspects have an effect on the breath energy/support. i think the wider vowel (as well as taller vowels) seem to engage more of what some people would call chest or mouth resonance or metal or more TA muscle activity (basically a thicker sound) depending on the school of technique. in terms of the clips sounds i think its all a matter of taste really. the first clip of crying sounds good to me and would say it doesnt sound too heady or that you couldnt use that coordination. it sounds like a similar coordination that some power metal, prog metal and AOR rock vocalists use but like i say thats about taste ( although i enjoy a real balls to the wall rock vocal my personal preference is for clean melodic rock and metal vocals, so if i was at a bar and there was a band playing i would be much more interested in a geoff tate circa operation mindcrime than a bon scott circa highway to hell vocal http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnxJEapid_M go to 3:35 ) and ultimately its about what you personally want to achieve and following your heart. does the first crying sound good enough? in my opinion, certainly but whether it sounds like what you want as an end result is your personal taste and preference.
  3. been busy. having a understanding of how the voice works doenst always translate to being a great singer. i have heard that quite a good deal of vocal science types and teachers out there dont always have the best voices or vocal ability. although i am neither a teacher or a vocal scientist there are indeed some aspects of the voice that i have a better understanding of than my ability to actually perform. im not a 100% where i want to be vocally yet and i certainly havent yet mastered some aspects that i would like to but heres where im at at the moment. its a rough home demo recording over a song of a band i know. http://www.box.net/shared/7t7ffyb487
  4. warm ups like lip bubbles and tongue rolls. basically exercises where the work load is being shared by the vocal folds and another part of the body (speaking/singing process parts, not your foot for example haha) like the lips or tongue instead of just the vocal folds like in normal phonation.
  5. CVT would say you could i agree that there is no point spending all your time on the aspects of ones voice that may already be strong/good and that and that we generally work on building and improving our weaknesses but i would say that you also have to be careful and well informed when doing any vocal work that might be on the extreme side of things. i think thats another good aspect about having a teacher; they can have a good perspective of what stage the voice is at and how far it can be taken/pushed at that present stage. a perspective that we, as the singer may not always have a proper or full view of as where too involved in the process. the thing about some of the great, inspiring rock vocalists is that quite a few of them have done their voices in a bit getting nodules and such but have luckily been at a level of success and financial stability where they could seek the very best treatments and maybe have a break etc. basically in situations that the every day singer is not and where such problems may end a career. you never heard of the great rock vocalist that nearly made it but then buggered his voice up, because he never made it first :P
  6. what is interesting are the comments on utube (basically saying paul sounds s**t) obviously from ardent freddie fans who have no objectivity at all!
  7. joshual, i wouldnt put yourself down, you have a good voice. i think the problems your encountering are more to do with technique issues rather than any lack of talent. sounds to me like your kind hovering between a belt type sound and a mixed voice type sound in places rather than being in the correct set up for either.
  8. SLS do also use more than the NAY, NAH, NARH stuff for twang/pharyngeal coordinations but ultimately they are more concerned with adding what might be considered necessary twang rather than distinct twang (as their generally trying to bring out the best in someones natural timbre before the singer would start adding sound colours) but you can add that N.twang through doing some distinct twang sounds and then moving on. it all depends on the individual and how much that coordination might need to be added to the recipe in order to assist the task at hand such as adduction or connecting through the bridges ect. for some voices they may not need to add that at all during their lesson. its only considered one ingredient of the vocal recipe and more often than not not the main one. "however, simply making a "nay" formant is not going to give you enough contraction to really amplify and get a killer sound like most people are looking for... the study of twang requires a vastly deeper understanding of vocal modes/qualities and some heavier workouts... "nay, nay, nay" isnt going to get you there if you want "extreme singing" results... big, aggressive, impressive head tones." Robert, its comes across that you have a sound ideal like SLS is often accused of. a distinctly twanged sound has, as is suggested a distinct sound. not every one, even those who want big, powerful etc. head tones will want that sound and certainly not every singer i have heard that has a great head voice uses a distinctly twangy sound. they may have "ring", "squillo" , singers formant or whatever is else you want to call it but that is a slightly different thing/application than a very distinctive twang. as far as i know many vocal pedagogies have know of the significance of twang for many, many years but, depending on the tone etc. you want to achieve/are working on its generally considered only part of the vocal recipe. for some vocal recipes the twang ratio may be high for other not. for a very piercing, stereotypical "heavy metal" type scream the ratio is generally high. twang can be a GREAT training tool and i have certainly experienced how as a training tool it can help with adduction and crossing bridges and when used for short periods on such exercises can give a sense of vocal ease and freedom. i have also experienced and observed with other singers that using distinct twang for extended periods of time usually requires more effort than a more "normal" timbre and can lead to tension creeping in. twang can be great but its not the be all, end all for me im afraid.
  9. ive heard that those type of warm ups do gently increase blood flow (and what ever else is going on when you warm up any other muscle in the body such as before exercise etc.) in the musculature of the larynx. how true that is scientifically i dont know.
  10. sorry mark have a stab at it means have a go/try at it. oops i spelled her name the more traditional way (well at least for me). sorry Cathrine :)
  11. Hi Geno, yes it does sound like you may have ended up with constrictions which can wear on the voice. if your still having problems after 4 weeks of vocal rest i suggest you go and see a doctor or ENT and also make sure that there are not factors such as acid reflux or things like fumes from chemicals and paints if your around any that could also be of significance. In SLS, so im assuming its the same in SS there are various bridges or passggio in the registration of the voice and it just happens that that Eb5 is pretty much where one of them is. if you want go even higher one way is to release, relax and lighten the voice to a place where it feels almost as if its going to flip into falsetto and narrow the vowel your using. in fact as a training tool you cant start on a very narrow OO type sound, one that is a little deeper/darker than say the vowel in the work TOO so more like the OO in the word FOOL which kinda had a tiny amount of UH in it, narrow your lips like as if you were whistling and siren/slide up in pitch and see where you get. remember as you get up high to drop your jaw but keep those very narrow,whistle type lips and make sure there is absolutely no tension in the throat, keep it very relaxed so that it is as easy and free/released as the feeling of falsetto.
  12. i think Mr Bounce is probably on track and i would imagine that a lot the jaw movements etc. are happening from other outer muscles trying to assist in the task rather than it ideally being at a laryngeal level. however unlike outer muscle trying to assist with aspects such as power etc. i wouldn't think it was that problematic unless their was a lot of tension in the regions that are assisting though i know some teachers would say its not proper technique and may be unsightly. my internet was playing up at the time, but from what i could make out the jaw movements i saw on the videos Puissance provided didnt show that much movement compared to some r n b type singers i have seen but i will have a look again later. also i think there is a difference if your reestablishing a sound over and over again such as "yeah yeah yeah" to differentiate each note in the sequence, where by the jaw will move than just flapping your jaw around. i think Mr Bs video is a good example that indeed the assisting muscles dont have to be present. Puissance, not that im an expert at all that ornamentation stuff though i play around a little but one thing i have found is that the better my technique has become and the more relaxed, loosened up/freed up my voice has become (which ultimately has been down to training to not engage constricting and large assisting musculature) the better and easier that stuff has got. one training tool would be to work out what the notes are in the melodic sequence of the run or riff and then do it very slowly and staccato(emphasising each note separately rather than letting them blend into one another) on a sound like WHOAH as in the word TOE or WHOO as in the word TO and slowly increase the speed faster. this would make the jaw move as mentioned above but the assistance can be helpful at first. once you feel your able to do the above exercise at a fast pace, approaching or at the speed of the actual run take away the beginning consonants so your just left with the vowel sound. when this is done there should be no need for the jaw to move. so WHOAH would become OH and WHOO would become OO and once again sing each note in the sequence separately gradually increasing the speed of the run or lick to full speed. Martin, please dont take this as some sort of "and this means SLS is better" comment (or "and this means CVT is rubbish" comment because i dont believe that and am i not trying prove or point that out. i am merely pointing out an objective observation not "point scoring" on some sort of technique vs technique crusade :cool: ) because im not even sure if SLS has any standard way of teaching ornamentation and CVT does at least have a stab at it but i think the CVT method is one of its weak points. it kind of outlines some exercises like i did above but it talks about doing it through hammer ( or sometimes known as machine gun or sheep) vibrato or laryngeal vibrato but seems to favour the hammer vibrato method because thats what seems to be demonstrated mostly by Catherine Sadolin in the ornamentation exercises from what i can hear (though i could be wrong) but i have to say that i dont think this is what is going on with those runs and licks type ornamentation because it sounds and feels quite different from the CVT stuff. i personally couldnt say whats actually going on and i would guess that it is close to some sort of vibrato fold type coordination/movement but i have to say i dont think its the ones demonstrated by Catherine.
  13. oh no! ive done it again...........................................................................just kidding :D
  14. yeah i wasnt saying so much that you were wanting to get his sound. it wast really a question yeah if i could only have the capabilities (or cherry pick all the points i like lol) from my favorite singers but with my own voice!!!! i guess thats why we work so hard on technique though. you never know maybe ones own natural vocal strengths may be ones vocal idols weaknesses. "I always thought a natural singer should sing with his natural sound. That seems the most honest and least pretentious. " i totally agree with that and i would also add that it can make singing easier too as you have discovered. it doesnt mean you cant add different sound colours, textures and such from time to time if you want to but instead add them from your own vocal perspective. i do think VIDEOHERE has a point however that emulation can be a worthy learning/training tool, im sure it helped me in the past nail a few things, but ultimately i believe in the long run, especially if your thinking of singing professionally you should work from your own sound.
  15. i know im gonna get shot down for this, and believe me i am a Zepplin and Plant fan but i actually prefer Lamberts voice on the lambert recording vs zep live video. on the vid plants sounds a bit strained (unintentional distortion at top of chest range) and whiny/shrill. i would say lamberts voice is technically more proficient but of course taste of tone and timbre is a personal preference but being objective and taking away the fact that zep and plant are icons and i am a classic rock fan i think i do actually prefer lamberts voice here. that slide/siren lambert does starting at 2:16 is actually kinda easy (once youve built some adduction/connection into the head voice) in the sense that its starts at B above middle C and goes up to E above high C. this means for a lot of tenor and baritone voices the range of the slide is over a selection of notes where there are no bridges or passaggi in the voice. in SLS talk this means it starts firmly in the head voice (far enough away from the seam/bridge from mix voice to head to be problematic) and continues up to and stops at the top of head voice before it would go to the next register (super head voice/pure head voice) of course many voices are different so you may find something like a semitone difference between voice/bridges. because of where the slide is in register you wouldn't necessarily even have to narrow and slightly deepen the vowel if you didnt want to (though i would suggest it because it actually gives an even greater sense of ease to do) to achieve a natural thinning and lightening as the slide goes up like in the recording.
  16. Matt, are you sure you are not a secret SLSer! the things about "speak singing" and having an uncluttered tone as well as having the foundation of ones natural timbre are what are taught. anyway as much as i love gramms sound why would you want to try to adopt someone else's when you have a timbre as nice as yours.
  17. sorry i probably worded it wrong. to clarify i meant what did joshual think of the KT course he got :)
  18. Mark, i can sense your frustration and anger with the experience you had and im sure that if i had had the same experience i would share you views. all i can imagine is that with an organization that is as big as SLS is now with hundreds of teachers around the world your bound to, even with the greatest of efforts to ensure there are procedures that it does not happen, find that there are some teachers that are not that great. all i can say is and this is not to try to take away from the experience you had, that having had lessons/participated as a volunteer student for quite a few SLS teachers as well as having had lesson with level 5 Instructor Management Team teachers my experience has been extremely different than yours.
  19. hahaha jonpall, i think i just accidentally gave you a minus reputation point when in fact i meant to give you a positive one. sorry . Moderator.....................!!!!!
  20. Martin i would just like to point out, and maybe i should have done this before, that my critique of CVT was not meant as any kind of 'mud slinging" to discredit CVT in some sort of attempt to prove SLS is better or indeed that CVT is not a valid or good school of technique. i was merely expressing some of the observations/views of someone that is pretty much a beginner when it comes to the CVT methodology and modes. i would assume through the use of common sense that some if not maybe all the points i made are precisely because im a beginner in the world of CVT. i can also believe that part of it is probably down to the fact that different individuals learn in different ways and while one methodology may click more intuitively with one person it may not with another.
  21. proves you dont have to sing pitches that only dogs can hear to sound great!!!!!
  22. haha Matt you may not have studied SLS but you make comments like this along with the tone/speak singing type stuff that are very SLS concepts!
  23. didnt sound that light to me in the sense that the top note isnt suddenly transferring into a lighter tone but keeps consistent (through a very gradual lightening as the pitch rises) with the lower voiced tone but yeah its not Wagner tenor heavy or belting but then both of those would require considerably more effort.
  24. yeah i dont think it was anything to do with sound colour that the teachers felt that curbing is different than mixed voice as mixed voice can be coloured different depending on the vowel you use and your right that the vowel modification such as UH and O/UH are good for a mixed voice set up. it was that they felt it sounded a bit too squeezed and i guess overly compressed sounding. too much of a "hold" in CVT terminology. the problem when you start putting sounds into specific boxes is that your bound to find sounds that fall in between them or outside them. just like how Estill belting would be considered a uncentered mode compared to CVT type belting.
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