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drew77

TMV World Legacy Member
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Everything posted by drew77

  1. To add to this, We all have to keep in mind that most of us are all singers/teachers that have been doing this for a while. We forget that some people do not do these things automatically, and that they must be taught. To avoid explaining that singing is effortful to avoid "tension" ends up creating excess tension in the wrong places.
  2. My bad Martin... I meant that the knodel isn't beneficial. Feeling under your chin is for sure.
  3. MDEW- I wasn't saying the two are always connected, just that in some people they use the root of the tongue when trying to access twang. I don't think its really useful for anything other than character voices. I suppose you could use it as a form of negative practice, as in finding that sound and seeing if some of those unnecessary tensions are creeping in without your knowledge. You can play with feeling under your chin as Martin suggested. Basically, just as an kinesthetic exploration tool. Other than that, I feel that it is not beneficial.
  4. Dante - Interesting assessment. From my experience, sometimes when you try to get someone to access "twang" or narrow the aryepiglottic sphincter, they will interpret it as the knödel. I believe this is because the muscular process needed to create that sound is clustered back there with the tongue root and middle pharyngeal constrictor. It takes a lot of sneaky tricks to get someone to uncouple these things if thats how they are approaching it. Maybe thats what they were telling him, thats how he interpreted it, and no one ever clarified.
  5. Dante- I just played around with this in a mirror, and I think we may be seeing a combination of both. I see the gap in the mirror when I specifically tense my SCM's and raise my larynx. It doesn't appear when I do either of them in isolation. Just a thought.
  6. Right on. I think we're on the same page here.
  7. I didn't mean to come off like some tone ideal dictator. My main problem is that it seems like that tone is inhibiting his vocal function.(i.e. limits his range, makes him "break" not for artistic reasons but technical reasons) The tongue root/middle pharyngeal constrictor(?) Thing is one thing that I think is helpful almost never except for character voice reasons. Josh Groban's genre is not requiring that he sound like kermit, it wants him to sound semi operatic (dark, but maybe not as dark or ringy as a true opera singer) He is using the tongue root as a strategy that gives him the tone but limits function (it seems to me it's not allowing his larynx raise for higher pitches) There are better ways to get the timbre he wants. It's just surprising to me that his vocal coaches have let him sing that way.
  8. not to hijack this thread, but I saw Josh Groban live a few month's back and was really upset that somebody has let him go on singing like he does. His tongue is so far down that back of his throat that it empathetically makes my throat hurt. He bailed out alot into "falsetto" and got that whiny nasal tone sometimes like in that chorus of this song. I have read that he travels with vocal coaches, I'm just curious how he's gotten to where he is singing the way he does. Thoughts?
  9. Dante- I listened to your clip and I agree with Martin. Your second clip has added narrowing of the aryepiglottic sphincter, or twang. You are feeling your epiglottis approximate closer to your arytenoids.
  10. Martin H. -Just curious, who was the CCI at the course you attended? I'm also skeptical about the movement of the cartilages being complete physiological truth, however the figures as they are described are effective. I think the problem is that phonation is much too complex to really determine the adjustments needed for every pitch/quality. Thyroid tilt does effect pitch, but pitch is affected by length, tension, and mass. The figure for thyroid tilt definitely moves something (you can feel the Cricothyroid space change with your finger) and the tone is altered. You can also see the movements under the scope. So there is something there, and it is a useful pedagogical tool. At the end of the day, when you tell someone to engage Thyroid tilt, its a little more specific than "place the voice further in your forehead", but it is still just another attempt to put really complicated laryngeal movements into language. :)
  11. Thanks Dante!!! I've been a lurker on this forum for several years and have learned a lot from you guys interacting. Martin H- I agree with you. However, there is also the line of thought as to what is a useful pedagogical organization of what we do know. Estill is very effective to a teacher that is informed by it. I do think there are a few figures that could be maybe broken down a little further. There was talk at this symposium specifically about the cricoid cartilage and false vocal folds and the muscles that may be involved. The cricoid (or what Estill is calling "cricoid tilt") is interesting because there are a definite range of sounds that can be accessed through thinking about Estill's explanation of Cricoid Tilt. Whether or not this is actually happening is up for debate and needs more research (there might be something to it, you can definitely physically feel the CT space expand when belting or accessing other "Call" type sounds) , however the important thing is that it works to let people experience new sensations/ sounds with their voice. It's interesting.
  12. Well... I'm a teacher at heart. I'm currently attending school for music ed. I have a few students, but not really a studio yet. As I said though, I'm pretty close to CMT certification. I'm excited to be involved with the Estill organization because they recognize that it is still just a model (a really good one) that always has room for improvement and ongoing research. I'm hoping to get in on that action. I really just love the voice and want to explore all that it is capable of. : )
  13. Tom is actually a Certified Course Instructor for Estill and a real stand up guy. I believe he is doing a level 1 course in NYC this week if your'e in the area. (BTW.. that's me in the blue shirt in that video.)
  14. I'd like to chime in here. I am pretty involved in the Estill organization. I attended their world symposium in Boston this year and my teacher worked directly with Jo. When I first started looking for information about Estill I had the same thoughts because I couldn't get any materials directly from them. I took a course and it was definitely worth it. I am now more than halfway through my master teacher certification and can understand why they are careful about the information. There is alot of new terminology that can easily be misinterpreted/taught by someone that doesn't fully grasp the material, and this can be dangerous. The problem is when people start saying something is Estill, but they aren't teaching it properly, or out of context. That being said, There is a book being finished that was started by Jo Estill, and talk of some online courses. If you have any questions about Estill, I would be glad to answer them. -Drew
  15. Thats EXACTLY the same situation that Im in......... Im taking basic classes at community college......but music is my passion.......and I have a burning desire to share that with the world...... Im seriously considering the rockstar option....hahaha
  16. Very enjoyable.....you defiantly have an inborn musicality......... Where are you planning to go to school?
  17. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z48M3Icpnsk I took this down a half step......but that was for the instrumentation.......What do you guys think?
  18. Its basically impossible to say that you should always breath one certain way..........................singing, and speaking for that matter are such dynamic things.......................practicing the type of breath management youll need is part of the process of learning how to use your own instrument.................that being said..........as you previously stated..when breathing through the nose.........your basically breathing 100 percent filtered and moisturized air..............but this will sometimes slow you down when you need a quick breath to get to that next phrase..................so basically........there is no answer to the question.........how should I breathe?........................this is why different schools of thought differ on breathing.................some times "breathing from the diaphragm" can cause a singer to take in too much air......and if they dont support (hold back air) then they could end up pushing the vocal chords...............this is something that has been a personal problem for me..................so basically........you gotta practice breathing the way that works for you...........for whatever specific song you happen to be singing
  19. drew77

    Runs

    One thing that you can try to get more cleanly articulated runs is a "machine-gun" laugh................think woody woodpecker............once you get that feeling of a quick succession of notes, you can try to make the sound to a series of pitches..............once you get used to this kind of coordination, youll be able to smooth it out....................also.........more support will make this easier.............not only holding back the breath, but also torso anchoring.......or the feeling effort in your chest and lats...............also, head and neck anchoring might assist..........to do this, pretend to bite into an apple and get your teeth stuck..........then release the lower jaw.............you should feel effort in the back and sides of your neck.........and in the area above the hard palette...........its also important to note that this feeling is also where a fast, spinning, "pop"vibrato comes from...........
  20. Kevin.....could you elaborate on what you mean by singing open and "covering" the notes. I've heard these terms before, but I've never really gotten a clear answer as to what they mean. Thanks
  21. Curiously, could it also be said that Curbing could be considered full voice? I've heard some pretty big tones on high notes that definatley aren't EH or OH vowels and have a pretty dark sound color........... Maybe Full Voice is just such a relative term......
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