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Everything posted by MDEW

  1. So sad to hear of his passing. I had never even heard of this type of music until I joined this forum. Maybe things would have been different for my taste in music if I had heard this style while a teenager. One of my inspirations also passed recently, and this will show just how different tastes in music can be. Leon Redbone passed away. A very unusual entertainer in his own right, but he found his little niche and gained fame and the love of a wide audience. He also will be missed.
  2. I wasn't trying to put you on a pedestal Felipe. It is just there have not been many posts that really need to discussion. Congratulations for the new family member. I hope everyone is happy and healthy.
  3. I am more of a 60s and 70s rocker. I like the blues also. Whether they would sell in a pub or not depends on the pub. They would not go over too well in my area. But in the right place....Who knows?
  4. I could not judge someone else's set list. Tastes in music can be so different. I only know of a few of those songs.
  5. I would not know. Around here you have several different Bars/pubs in a small area. Each of these enjoy there own type of music. I am on the eastern central part of the US. Some prefer 60s through 70s rock, some prefer older country music, some prefer newer country and some prefer heavier music or progressive. Mostly what I would do is go to the pubs and see what kind of music they are playing when there is no band and listen to some of the bands to see what they play. If you hear nothing but the same songs being player over and over again....that is the style of music preferred. Learn some of the songs played in that pub. How do I find your video? To be honest, if I listen to your video or your song I will tell you about flaws I hear. If I think it sounds bad I will tell you that and I will tell you why. You will think I am a ruddy bastard if I find flaws and I am honest about it. And If I like it I will tell you that also. Yes and I still sounded bad in other places and was told about those. And I changed things and worked on a few other things and re posted. Again I made improvements that could be heard. It is a process not a few tips and you are able to sing opera and get standing ovations. Record honest with yourself....and make changes..... repeat as necessary. I work on songs and listen for the flaws. I do not just listen for what sounds good. I listen for what sounds bad and then make them sound better. It is an ongoing process.
  6. Do you have a song here for review? And yes, What sounds wrong will be pointed out. That is what a review is for. It is not to pat you on the back if it sounds off in some way.You improve by finding and fixing problems. There are plenty of people who think/know they sound good and just get mad if you try to help by pointing out flaws. You get pats on the back after flaws are pointed out and progress begins. That is the way it works. Another point to make about singing in pubs is that the people in the pubs usually have a certain type of music they enjoy. I have been playing in VFW's and Legion halls. These are for Veterans and locals who live in the area. At first the people just stared at us with bewilderment. After a while one of the people blurted out that they do not listen to that type of music here. We were playing blues and soft southern rock. After we changed to playing Old Hank Williams, John Denver and Merle Haggard they started to love us and asked us back. Some times it is not about how you sound but what you are singing. Playing and singing Dio, Aerosmyth, and Queensryche or Iron Maiden would have gotten us thrown out never to return. Being tactful also goes a long way. People pretty much get pissed at you if you call them ruddy bastards and dickheads. So far that is all you have been calling people here. People snub me too and that is their problem not mine. I come from a family of singers, none of them have taken lessons and they sound pretty good. I used to get the same snubbery even by family members. I would mention wanting to sound better at singing and they would always say that I sounded good but would get other members of the family to sing rather than me. No one could tell me why I did not sound as good singing as the others, they would just say some people have a unique voice. Which is true, but that was not the problem. When I came to this forum and submitted a song for review, people respected me and singing enough to tell me the truth and to give reasons why it sounded bad. That is what I needed. I did not need a pat on the back for having the courage to post a song that I thought sounded good. I needed to hear that it did in fact sound bad and why. Now I am singing in Pubs and having strangers tell me I sound good.
  7. Can you play any instruments? I am not just being a jerk. The reason I ask is that, If you do play an instrument and sing, forget about finding a band that is looking for a singer. As you said they already have the 50 songs that they can play. Sing the songs that you sing and accompany yourself with the instrument you play. The reason for this is that if you are good or sound good, other musicians will ask you if they can join you. You are right , most of the musicians playing in bars will continue to play in bars and be in local bands. They have to work for a living and probably do not have time to learn new songs or really work on their singing or instrument playing. Those to whom music IS there job will realize that they have to keep improving and learning new songs to get better and better jobs, They will practice and they will take lessons so they can play 5 nights a week at 4 hours per gig without damaging themselves. Not to mention the 2 hour set up time and the tear down time and driving. One 4 hour gig is really an 8 hour job. You get more money working at McDonald's than you do being a musician and playing in a bar. My advise to getting back at these types of jerks is not by wasting your own time bashing them but by training yourself and improving and singing for other people. Do the thing that they keep talking about. And smile to yourself knowing that you succeeded where they failed. Bashing other people just makes you look bad, and they do not care anyway.
  8. We already know that training and practice is the only thing that can improve your pitch. Stupid little things that "normal"(non singing/training) people would not take notice of helps get you to "Tune" your pitch. Like how you pronounce a word or your accent. If you listen to MOST(not all) songs you hardly hear an accent, or rather what you hear is a SINGERS accent. being that certain vowel sounds are use and others avoided BECAUSE non singing vowels can PULL YOU OFF PITCH. Like I said, on that forum, It is not a forum FOR SINGERS to improve their voice. It is FOR MUSICIANS and better ways to RECORD. A lot of the TIPS that you get from even the most qualified coaches will not help anyone if they do not give the exercise time and focus it needs. Most of it will sound like rubbish and BS to most people. Things like using lip bubbles or training scales or exercises/vocalizes or sing Eh instead of UH seem like all kinds of rubbish until you do it for a while AND CONCENTRATE ON DOING THINGS CORRECTLY. The improvement comes with time and effort. Even natural singers "Work on the songs" before they let anyone hear them sing. You have no idea how long it took them to sound Good. Listen to your own singing while working on a song. If you have trouble with a certain pitch, Just work on that one word that is giving you trouble when you get it right THEN add the other words in the song. Even NATURAL singers do this. They do not just wake grab a microphone and start singing a song on pitch and in key and with emotion. THEY WORK on it. Of course normal people are going to think it is bull because they tried all of 2 days and did not improve.
  9. In other words Tradisanal was the only one who had talent and was trying to help others by posting clips to give examples? Even if that forum had a place to review singing, it did not have anyone to help guide singers who thought they sounded good but did not. It did not have voice teachers but had a bunch of people who thought training did not matter. The review section here was intended to help people get better. You get better by people letting you know what does not sound good. Not by patting people on the back who do not sound good. Of course they will be full of criticism. That is what a critique is about. To tell you what sounds bad and give ideas to improve. A real teacher will never tell you to give up. It is their job to help you get better. If you do suck and think you know better than the teacher....then it is you who have failed, Not the teacher.
  10. What is not true? Kicking tone has not responded to other threads? Felipe has not been around this forum for a while? Other new threads are about vocal technique and not about "Do I sound good" without really wanting to know the answer of what to improve? That you have not been expressing a beef about another forum? That this forum was made for singers to discuss vocal technique, Training and vocal pedagogy? That the other forum is not more about musicians and recording techniques rather than singers wanting to improve their singing and not just how to record their singing? Why do you keep bringing up that other forum? This is not a piece of your own BS? So, yeah, again I guess, the interest in the udder nonsense of vocal pedagogy and training the voice is over. You win. Pat yourself on the back. we have had 10 people respond to this thread and 5 are the same people.
  11. Kicking tone has also contributed to some of the other posts. Felipe hasn't been around the forum for a while, and there hasn't been any relevant threads that would call for a response from someone like him. I am not sure what your problem is with Kicking tone or the beef you have with the other forum. I personally would not have someone tell me I am a good singer when there are obvious flaws. I would know right away they were BS-ing me. I did not get any pats on the back that were not preceded by flaws to be addressed. If you think you sound great while others are saying there is a problem, Chances are that there is a problem and it does not do you any good to ignore them because you believe you have no flaws. The other forum is not and was not intended for Vocalists to improve their singing or people who had an interest in the technical or scientific side to vocal research or training the voice. This forum was intended for vocalist, those wishing to learn, train and improve. Perhaps to discuss better courses of action for different genres. Some even to discuss the scientific research of voice production. If you are not interested....move on. If you are interested at least give those who have an opinion on improvement and maybe some scientific insights a chance. So far what has at least come through in your posts is that you think the training and scientific approach and research is BS or just putting others down for whatever reason. We actually need a few Walter Mitty's around here. Maybe we will get some threads worthy of time and effort.
  12. It would have been nice to actually have a forum for people interested in voice, work, maintenance and improvement and discussion. But I guess there really is no place for it any more. one thread that has had traffic here. I guess most people are still of the mind that all you have to do is open your mouth and make noise and you are singing. No work needs to be done, no thought, and no consequences for bad technique. Technique is a joke. Training makes no difference. OK, I guess we are done here. Let's just hand it over to Silly little man and his new clothes. Real singers like Pavarotti never took lessons or practiced in a way that could be considered training, John Denver did not feel like he needed to warm up his voice or do stupid little exercises, right? You would never hear Ozzie Ozbourne doing silly little lip trills or going Mi,Mi,Mi right? Michael Jackson never needed a coach to guide him did he? Celine Dion Either. How about Janis Joplin or Barbara Streisand they never got any guidance. Correct? Those people who end up on "The Voice" just automatically started singing that way. Right? So yes, there is no point in discussing anything...All you have to do is open your mouth and make noise....There you go, The secret. We are done here.
  13. I know of a place now(store chain) who needs to get rid of their manager. The manager is making decisions and changing workers schedules on the spur of the moment. Most of the employees quit and it left to a few cover the hours. One day she would have all 20 employees working and another day only 2 or 3 to cover when she needs 10. There have been advances in vocal research over the past 50 years that changed the way researchers themselves approach the research. And on most of the findings the tag is left with "More research is necessary". These are people who have the background of science, music theory, vocal health etc. and they do not accept their own finding as concluding evidence. Although there are a few who insist their method, idea or view is correct, for the most part, we were a community who were still seeking answers. Even when odd ideas were introduced there was discussion on why it may be a wrong path or a cause for further thought. Research is advanced by thinking outside the box not by sticking to cookie cutter ideas. It may true that the way the voice works has not changed in 6000+ years but our understanding of it and the way we use it has. The sounds we make and find pleasing are also changing from year to year and within different cultures. To say one sound is ideal over another (in General) is ridiculous. Sure within a certain Genre there is an ideal sound(for the time being). I guess I am pretty much saying whether you are an advocate for Speech Level, Bel Canto, or Primal Scream techniques none can be the ultimate and correct method for singing or training. Even on research one cannot truthfully say "I am right and YOU are wrong." Voice production is a product of Muscular activity and position, Air flow and resistance, Vocal tract alignment and acoustical properties within the vocal tract and bone structure. None of these are the ultimate defining aspect of voice production. None are more important than the other.
  14. We were already caught in a cross fire. Cliques are inherent to vocal pedagogy and music in general. What sounds good to a Rock-n-Roller generally sounds like crap to a classical aficionado. Musical theater has one set of aesthetics and Country music has another. On and on. Even inside the Opera field you have Wagnerian's opposed to Mozart, Castrati vs HeldenTenors on and on again. Each one thinking theirs is the epitome of voice and its accomplishment. In reality all of these are just opinions. And when you are training for any of these you would take a different approach because each has its own inherent sound ideal. You can sing an A5 with twang and high larynx. That is fine for Rock Blues and some Country songs but NOT for Opera. You train differently for both. Period. Some exercises are good for both. Some approaches work for both. But the SOUNDS that define the Genre are created differently with different configurations.
  15. I think both you and Robert mentioned the answer. The same answer that eventually led to slowing of traffic here. And people will still view it as discrimination,censorship or Maestroism. Enforce the guidelines of the forum. Keep the forum on track. Yes, you want the discussions to be free open, opinionated and Ruthless as Felipe mentioned, but focused on vocal pedagogy, training and singing. If you cannot respect the members and their opinion or follow the forum guidelines, you are gone. And you have people from different cultures who use what others consider profane language as normal communication. Enforcing language and demeanor/conduct would also be seen as discrimination. But it is not, community guidelines are to keep the community going. Taking back ownership was part of the trouble. The owner took back ownership and the guests took offence to it.
  16. The problem now may be the lack of interest in discussing vocal pedagogy. The world has changed and the way people get information has changed. Maybe people think they have found the answer and there is no need to search for answers anymore. People may believe that because there are still questions after all this time, it is a waste of time to even search for answers or discuss the subject. People are still thinking there is a magic bullet and can improve enough to win a contest they will be in at the end of the week so they look on youtube instead of seeking a long term process. It is not about rinsing and repeating the problem but repeating the core of the forum. It is finding people who are willing to learn from and help each other again. Those who have already taken the journey and have reached their goal helping others who are just starting.
  17. The subtle two faced attacks got warnings. No big deal and nothing to worry about. If that was it no problem.
  18. I sent this as a private message but I think it belongs in this thread. There are random people who are reading this thread and some like Felipe have come across it through other means. To me this means that there are people interested in this forum. " I am trying to get things rolling again without stepping on any ones' toes or bringing up sore subjects. I am not sure if I am making any progress and I know that I do not have the skills or knowledge to start any threads of substance other than trying to see if any one is still interested in discussing vocal techniques. I would think that even with facebook and youtube people would want to have conversations that are ongoing and not just random comments like you do on youtube."
  19. These two quotes are addressing the same thing. Personal attacks or vendettas do not belong on a forum. There is no point in having forum guidelines if they are being crossed without consequences. I do not understand why people would bring up the subject of freedom of speech after they used that right for making verbal attacks(this happened). Freedom of speech is not freedom of slander and it is not freedom to undermine a forums ideals.
  20. Good to see you Felipe. I still search for your videos at times. It does seem that when I first joined it was easier to jump between categories like Review my singing and General discussions. The debates and discussions are what made me stay. I think the Ruthlessness was part of the N reasons. It went from opposing positions to discuss, to I am right. More to the point of regardless of any evidence to the contrary I am right because I said so. That is no longer a discussion. And I am not talking about established members at the time. Sure there were some who always would interject opposing opinions to specific members....but they were still friends and respected each other. Speaking as a new member when the forum was "HOT" I can attest that new members who new nothing were treated with respect even if they had crazy ideas. Sometimes these crazy ideas led to better discussions, at least interesting ones... I still think that many of the debates were types of 'glass half full, compared to glass half empty". Each side saying the same thing with a different approach. I am sure you know that there were times when trying to establish facts that some were purposely twisting other established facts for their own purposes. And there were times when a post or complete thread needed to be deleted regardless of the idea of freedom of speech. I have no problem with that and it is also part of the reason I started this thread. There were things being brought up that had nothing to do with a singing forum. They did not belong here. Period. Those decisions to delete need to be understood even by people effected by it. For a moderator, to do his job, sometimes the decision has to be made that this thread or post does not belong on this forum. Sure people are going to have a problem with their post or someone else's being deleted if they do not know why it happened. People leaving this forum or being bumped from it also had nothing to do with opposed positions on singing and training. It was more about hurt feelings and defending yourself....on both sides. Of course others just got fed up with the situation at hand while even others were caught in the crossfire.
  21. I am very proud of our achievements in this forum. With a subject like how to improve your singing and what makes a voice sound good you have so many different ways to approach the subject and different views of what sounds good, not to mention using words that have diverse meanings, it is inevitable that people will disagree or misunderstand each other. These disagreements are what leads to better understanding of the subject. In order to get your own statements to be understood by people from different cultures and different singing methods/styles you have to rethink your own position and try to find better words that are universal in order to communicate your opinion. This will get you to assess your own understanding and either confirm your belief or help you CHANGE your belief. Some people have a hard time changing a belief even when they get concrete evidence that they are completely wrong or just mistaken on a few points. A common goal is the key to come to any conclusions and advancements. We had a common goal. To get to the bottom of how the voice works and how to improve it. Not to mention teachers and students who had the desire to learn how to hone their own skills or develop them and help others while doing so. When your goal is to learn and improve, you are already open to new ideas. When your goal is to teach you already believe you have the answer. Most of the teachers here at that time, were still in the process of learning. And I believe that most of them continue to believe they are Students of voice. Having a realization that you never stop learning is good way to keep yourself from becoming one of those who insist that they are right and you are wrong when you are saying the same thing in a different way.
  22. It is good to know you are still around. This is also a good example of the type of moderators a forum needs. Able to sit back and let forum members work through a disagreement or debate until necessary to step in. It is also worthwhile to know that some of the former moderators were teachers who took part in the discussions and debates. It may not be so easy to separate the position of a moderator and a participant in heated discussions. That would be part of the people skills needed. At the time we have been talking about, moderators were needed. People did need to be warned about crossing lines and eventually posts did need to be deleted, for the good of the forum and for personal reasons. There was a fine line that had been walked for a long time before those actions were taken. People took up the fight against censorship and the cause for freedom of speech while overlooking the right to moderate your own forum and present a welcoming environment and air of respect. Opinions on singing is one thing and mud slinging or outright misinformation is another. Keeping Forum guidelines were mentioned in looking for a moderator, forum guidelines being broken gives rise to a need for a moderator and his own judgement for when guidelines have been broken.
  23. At some point in time, on this forum, moderators were chosen from contributing members. Not necessarily from professional singers, teachers or those with people skills. Just from who is available and willing. At this point it would be me, you or Silly little man. I do not have the knowledge or skill required. Part of what needs to be moderated...and this is where issues arrive....when there are discussions on physiology, pedagogy, or even common principles of singing you need someone who has the knowledge and can steer the discussion back on track when the discussion takes a wrong turn. You also need to know when someone is twisting words purposely and when it is just a matter of not understanding what is being said. There is one who I believe is still monitoring this forum. I do want him to know that he is well respected and not the type of bad moderator we have been talking about. Adolph, If you are out there, I hope you are doing well.
  24. Well, That seems quite confusing. How is it hard to keep the idea of diversity with a diverse subject? This goes back to the question of singers' and teachers' egos and the difference in "Sound ideals between differing genres". I am not using "EGOS" as a bad term here. When your idea of Beautiful and powerful singing is a Classical or Operatic sound, that is different from a Southern Gospel sound and different from a Rock opera sound and Different from a Country Music Sound and different from a Blues Sound etc. And when you are a singer and having certain problems that you seek to "Fix" you may start off with different teachers or methods, exercises, books and so forth. I have heard and read many stories on this forum of people trying many different programs and teachers until they found the "Right" one that helped them. Now, most of the programs/methods or teachers use the same exercises. Maybe they will give them a different name but basically the same thing. After trying things for years and then suddenly something "Clicks" and you start making gains, you start to believe you found the "Secret" and the "True" method. You get the idea that "You are Correct" because nothing else worked. The point is you may be forgetting about ALL THAT OTHER STUFF you did for years that was working in the background, like any other training. Your voice and control over it takes time. It does not happen over night. When it does "Click" you think the last thing you did was the "Magic Bullet" or the "True Method". So for some it is "Bel Canto" and some SLS, and some TVS and others Ken Tamplin"s Product still others Brett Manning. Stick with any of them and Pay attention to your voice and adjust accordingly and all of these programs will "Work" over time. The EGO part is that after failing for so long and then it "Clicks" you do not only Think the last thing was what truly worked "You KNOW" it did and you have the conviction of years of trying that other stuff but this one worked. Anyone who gets in front of people and sings has a strong EGO even if they believe they are timid, Anyone who teaches has a strong EGO even if they do not think so. You have to have the belief that you are doing something Right before you will expose yourself like that. Some people may flaunt it more....And why not? They fought long and hard for it. You gain bragging rights. You failed for a long time and then you concurred it. You deserve to tell others about your struggle and success and you also may have the gained conviction that you can HELP others do what you did. person may KNOW that Bel Canto is best and another will KNOW TVS is best and one person will KNOW that speech level Singing is best because they tried the others first and did not make gains until the last method tried.........At this point it is no longer diversity that helped you but a single thing or Method that you believe was the deciding factor and that is what you are going to argue for and you will be inclined to argue against the other methods. Not even realizing that each of them contributed to the gains in the long run.