MDEW

Hey Joe, I came into this thread in mid discussion. I did listen to your clip but I did not read all of the posts that came before the Singer vs Coach issue. Just enough to get the jist of things. Most of the time here the reviews are based on where a person is in his training, and that seems to have been the general review standpoint at the beginning of this thread. If there are no major faults in pitch and tone then focus ends up on presentation: if things seem odd or something just doesn't "Click" for some reason. There was no mention that you had a program or anything(in the beginning), But, for some reason those who do(have a program or teach), end up getting a more detailed critique. Other members and a few on line coaches have given lessons while they themselves are still in training. I do not see why that should have been brought up to begin with. I also find myself having issues with a reinterpretation of a famous song. That kind of bugs me a little because I also will change a song to fit my personality and style. The problem is not usually of reinterpretation but that the new melody/tone/emotion does not fit with the musical background. When working on a song I will often search for how others have presented the song. See/hear what works in my opinion and what doesn't. When you find the same song presented by different artists you will discover that almost everything has changed in one degree or another. From instruments to drum beat/tempo to the melody itself. When it is good, everything fits together and seems as one unit. When it is bad there are inconsistencies. I am not sure where I was going with this......... too many starts and stops while typing............ anyway welcome to the forum and I look forward to hearing more of your interpretations.

Just to be clear, None of my comments were about the OP (Joe ). I came into this thread after the subject of "Teaching Vs Singing" came up. My comments were just about the "Teachers" should be good "Singers" subject. In my view that is "BULL" as I stated before Singing itself is about the Singers choices of Style, Presentation. Register .....(Paraphrased). Teaching is about training and guiding the ability to present those choices. Not to make the choices for the singer. Joe did a fine job as far as the singing itself. (Pitch, Tone, solid voice throughout the song). And a critique section, in my view, should also cover some of the other aspects of singing. Does the phrases flow in a musical context? Is the emotional value of the song being expressed? Does the choice of "Falsetto" vs "Belt" work within the musical theme of the song? Is the Tonality of the voice a proper match for the underlying music? The answers to any of those questions are only opinions, and the OP has the right to accept or dismiss the view of the poster but they are still aspects that most people will concider when listening to the song as a consumer or member of an audience.

I post in a critique section expecting a critique. Sometimes we are not good judges of our own sound and choices. Family and friends can not be trusted to give critique and advice on our choices either. They either want to encourage us through undeserved praise or give us bad critiques out of jelousy. Better to be reviewed by those who have no stake in our emotional well being and will give an honest opinion, Either good or bad. No, it should not be a judgement of some ones character, But you would post something that you have just started working on to find out if you are on a path that seems pleasing to most or not, then adjust as necessary. I would much rather have people on this forum give me a heads up that my choices for a songs presentation are bad than to present that song to a live group and be booed off stage.(This is not about the song presented here, just my view on the critique section itself)

Joe, The vocals sound great. I just want to make a quick comment on the "singing vs Training/Coaching " thing. There are a lot of choices in the singing aspect that have nothing to do with Training/Coaching. Prosody, Rhythm, vocal punctuation, inflection, choice of vocal weight, diction, To scream/distort, woofy growl or fry, Soft voice, full voice, staccato, legato .......... All of these are artistic choices. A guide for making these decisions are not usually a part of training. Maybe they should be if one is going to call themselves a "Singing" coach. But it is not necessary for a "Vocal" coach. These choices are up to the singer. A singer can make bad choices on these things and still have perfect control of their instrument and the ability to train and Teach others to make Healthy, Solid, Beautiful Sounds. Training to have the ability to sound like Janis Joplin or Celine Dion does not mean that everyone is going to accept the choice that you made between the two on a given song.

Awesome, glad to have you here.

Vice is always more exciting. More like Keyboard failure. I would say that my typing is faster than my brain......I use the H&p method. Hunt and peck ........ Both for typing and thinking. Singing also........ But I am getting better at all 3.

I read somewhere that Vibrato should be above the note and Tremolo refers to when the note drops below the pitch. Usually associated in singing when the voice is a little too week to keep the note steady. A big difference in the sound and feel of a note. Another interesting tidbit, a slightly higher intonation gives the vice more excitement and a slightly lower intonation gives more of a somber/lazy feel. Even if the pitch itself is so close that it is otherwise imperceptable to the ears. Even though it has been a while since I listened to other Versions of "Wichita Lineman" Your versions sounds awesome. The music and the voice fit nicely and there was no feel of something missing. Edit: I must correct myself......... Tremolo is a fluctuation in volume ......... made by the pulsing of the diaphagm instead of a fluctuation in pitch ........

I'm not sure what to say about the tone or if it even needs fixing....I am just in awe of the fact that anyone can sing those notes. Sounded good to me. The more you sing it and the more confident you are the better the tone will become.

Sounds great Geno. I love the sound of higher voice...... And your lower voice.............. middle is cool also...........

I think learning the difference in Musical theater Belt and your style of singing will help "Thicken" your higher notes. Just like in a lower voice, you can choose the "weight", "Color" or timbre of the higher voice to some degree. After you strengthen the coordination.

Manolito, Have you read the thread on Belt voice musculature and bridging E4 to A4? The last few pages of that thread dealt with the difference between Musical theater Belt, "Rock Belt" and Classical "Belt". Maybe you find a little of what you are looking for there. Are you wanting to go into Musical theater or is it that your teacher is leading you in that direction?

The neck is straight enough and the frets are in good condition. Once I really do the fretwork it will be fine, Whoever mutilated this sanded the neck down so it is pretty thin. The oid pickckups are weak. In the recording I am using the neck pickup. If I use any of my other guitars with the same setting on the recorder, I get a really deep bass sound. With this one there is barely any low end. I don't know much about wood so I do not know if it is ,Alder, Ash or pine, But the body is one piece of solid wood. When I put the sealer on getting ready to paint, the body had a deep antique yellow tint to it and the Burnmarks on sides, front and Back just sort of popped out at you. There are a lot of cracks that run from the butt of the guitar to the neck. The sealer made them more prominent also. .......... It looks like the guitar is going to split apart, but they are just surface cracks. The body is solid. But it feels good in my hands and looks cool. A really nice practice guitar. Plus I do not have to worry about putting marks on it or scratching the finish.

Thanks gno, I do not have pictures of the results but I did take pictures before I started working on it. I figured there were too many Fake Stevie Ray guitars out there........so I took the sander to it. I could not go deep enough to get all burn marks and scratches out so I put a coat of sealer on and looked cool that way so I left it. I will take pictures tomorrow sometime and upload them. I put a set of Gold Gibson control knobs on to match the gold hardware. If you click on the picture it will open on a new page that you can enlarge to see what kind of damage was done

Sounds good Jeremy, You should record this with just a guitar or keyboard. It sounds like a fun song to throw in at a party.

Thanx Gneetapp and Ronws, The guitar used "woody" was given to me when I sold an old amplifier to a collecter. It is a 1970s Fender Strat. Someone got the bright Idea to try and make a Stevie Ray Vaughan Copy out of it. It is a righthanded guitar but Stevie's is Left handed so they bought a Left handed bridge/tremelo and Cut the original pocket to fit it in there........ Stevie Rays' hardware is "Gold plated" so this guy bought Cheap imitation Gold plated hardware. Then preceded to cut, gouge, scatch, sand and a mulitude of different types of destruction to "Copy" Stevie Rays guitar, which pretty much looks that way becuse Stevie played the Hell out of it. I am not sure how the collector got a hold of it but I told him that I had been finding old guitars to practice "Fixing" them. He went to the back of his trailer and brought out this guitar which was in several pieces, the hardware in a plastic bag, the neck seperated from the body. He said it had been under his bed for more than 20 years. I was going to repaint the guitar, but after sanding off the original paint and putting on a coat of sealer, with all of the former distruction, Burn Marks, gouges, discoloration from years of exposed wood and such, The guitar just had too much character to cover up again. I am still using the same cheap hardware and the tuners are so loose that even if you get it in tune to start playing, by the middle of the song you are out again. I put the "Good" guitars away because I am working from my home now and ran out of room to keep them whithin reach. The plan is still to buy new tuners for it but the money has not manifested as yet.

I finally had a few minutes, late at night so I had go with something soft. Let me know what you think.

Hi Kaidan29, You do have a nice tone, One thing that is a popular misconception is that soft singing takes a low volume and less effort. It actully takes as much or more effort because you are controlling the voice to sound soft. Singing generally takes an air flow and energy similar to scolding someone........... Picture this............You walk into a room and find your son, daughter or younger sibling coloring in your favorite book or school report. Without thinking you say (with emotion) "Stop! What do you think you are doing? I needed that." That would be the same kind of energy needed in singing ..... Your voice needs air and energy to be efficent. It is also easier to control pitch with this type of energy.

I do not think that any training you have done is a waste. Any training is going to build some form of coordination and build strengths. One of the big differences in Roberts program is that he walks you through coordinations in what he calls work flows. It makes a big difference when some one guides you to a proper coordination for an exercise .......... And in Roberts program it is really meant as an exercise NOT just a vocalise.. Roberts passion for training singers and their progress is also an inspiration. It makes a difference when some one seems to be genuinely interested in your progress. CVT is good product also ........ I don't think that it explains the different coordinations for their Modes too well ............. But after you train with Roberts program if you revisit CVT it will make a lot more sense and be a better resource for you.

I am assuming this is a responce to Ronws suggestion of letting the notes resonate. Sing a note lets say G3 at a moderate volume..... without worrying about what vowel you are singing change the timbre of the sound....... you can make that note brassy and bright, deep and bright, Thin, thick.......... play with it ............ what you are doing is changing the size and shape of the resonance chamber (vocal tract) notice what changes take place to the sound and feel. Don't just sing it the way you always do, what someone else told you to do to get resonance ........... Resonance occurs when the shape of the vocal tract reacts with the note being sung........ The adjustment is not the same for everyone and holding the top and back fully open may miss the sweet spot. Play with it so you can learn how to control your own voice.

Thanks Ronws, I want people to know that my observation was not directed towards Felipes recording, Just a point to ponder for those also working on this song. I have been thinking about recording this but it would be in a different direction from Felipe, John and Trent......I tend to express my pain a few notes higher than Johnny.

Nice Job Felipe, ......... Just an observation ............. it helps to record this after a few days of beating yourself up over all the crap that goes on in this life. There is a certain pain that causes one to think......." I hurt myself today, just to see if I can feel " .........Been there done that .....the expression of this feeling is very subtle. To get it in your voice almost takes reliving it as you sing. It is never a matter of "do I sing this dark or do I express it through a talk/sing? " I am also not proposing that every time you sing this you must be in that state of mind (that could put one into the loony bin,).......but certainly while working the song and getting the nuances down it helps.

Sounds Great Felipe......... I haven't visited the review section for awhile............. It is always good to hear new songs from you.

It would be helpful for you to post a sample of you singing the song.......... There are elements that can only be determined by hearing how YOU approach the note. Basic factors are Support, Resonance, Vowel, larynx position. Record the song the way you sing it with the band. The words being sung can influence how to sing them........Some consonants and vowels promote good airflow and stability and some hinder airflow and stability.

Thanks....I did not mention the comparison for you to change anything.....I have been trying to tighten up my own sound a bit just wondering whether to continue or accept things as they are.......I grew up with Elton and bands like the Eagles, Beatles and such where others have their influence from Dio, Glenn Hughes and Dickinson. The difference in style is apparent but not sure whether genetics makes the difference or technique as far as over all sound characteristics.

Sounds great Musikman.......Just an observation.....nothing wrong about it but I have noticed than on an extended EE(I) you tend to break it up with an H sound...... I only notice that because I have been called out on it myself..... You have a nice tight and focused voice.....Elton is more full and broad sounding.....This I mention because my own voice is more like Elton and I am wondering if it is from a Physical aspect or a Difference in Technique.......I just can't seem to tighten up my sound......I have noticed the same "Tightness" in some of the other members here.......Like KillerKu, Xamedhi and a few others...... Anyway great sound, and if it is from technique I have a lot of work to do.............