Sleeper256

Ooh that'd be awesome Rob! I won't be here tomorrow, flying home for family for Christmas but will probably be back afterwards provided internet doesn't suck.   Also I got an avatar

Hey KillerKu, I watched the video and I sort of understand frequency cuts and such (I use Logic) I just didn't know that's what you meant when you talked about the cut of a voice. Now it makes more sense, thanks! I mostly leave my vocals alone when I show you guys because I want the most accurate representation of reality (though I suspect my mic adds a bit of bass)   Actually we were just talking about frequencies and EQ in another thread, and I posted this picture   http://imgur.com/a/MEom2   Basically I was foolishly comparing the frequencies of some pro acapella recordings (michael jackson, bruno mars, david coverdale, brad delp) against my completely raw vocals ( the last 2 pics)   @ m.i.r.   I was thinking more about trying the cough/breath thing you're recommending, and then I did it a few times, and it hit me (as long as this is what you meant)   What you're talking about is pretty much that thing you always heard michael jackson doing! I used to think that was more of his style/quirk thing, but now I realize that's pretty much what you were talking about and it helps you breathe. I'm talking like what he does at the beginning of this verse in thriller > I wonder if a lot of singers do this but it's just cut out by a noise gate/producer or something.   So I started trying that, and right now it still does slow me down by a little bit, so still gotta time it right, but it's more possible to take a breath inbetween words rather than whole lines.   So the map from earlier is more like this   Now if you're feeling kinda low about the dues you been paying (cough breath) future's coming much too slow. (longer breath) And you want to run but somehow you just keep on staying (cough breath) can't decide on which way to go-o-o (medium breath) Yeah yeah yeah.   You get the idea.   Now I gotta figure out what you guys mean by twang and compression.

  So I did this one because it's fun and silly, the extreme high and low parts are challenging, and also to demonstrate my lowest, musical theaterish tone part...the G2s are pretty much the lowest I can go (unless I trick myself by changing the key), but I don't think it's fry...maybe a little tiny bit.   Anyway, be honest and let me know what you think, I don't think I've ever showed you guys anything like this from me.   One take, a few effects but mostly raw for best representation.   This one has backing music.   I was trying to keep the falsetto part as light-voiced as I possibly could, and that is so hard to jump to so quickly when I've been doing the rest in full chest. I read that there's actually two singers on the original track at that part.   Ok thanks   Also here's the original if you've never heard it, it's a trip: 

Oh wow, really? I never would've thought this was a heavily processed vocal (but I don't know what to look for in one) I figured it was raw with some reverb on it. I do suspect comping though.   I'll be honest I don't know what you mean by cut and metallic (metallic is probably what I call screechy?)   I have some lower notes (though not as low as you, I heard your track with all the impressions and I CANNOT hit D2 even in fry lol. Everything lower than F#2-G is mostly mush), they just need to be called differently. I'll demonstrate that in my next track which will be mostly lower and we'll see if they're good or not.   Yeah, though my feelings seem kinda dulled to the point where I can't physically tell if I'm doing something, if something hurts, I stop, relax and try to find another way to do it. And that's another reason I have lessons, if I'm doing something wrong she can correct me before it becomes a problem.   Thanks again!

Yeah, distortion or (some) rasp is something that I want to achieve too, but I feel like aiming for that might do more damage than just harnessing what I can so far. I feel like the rasp comes as you get older and have been singing for a long long time.   the trick I have found, when singing Boston, is to get lighter than you think you need to be. Brad did not "carry chest up."   Or at least, that is how it worked for me.   "Long Time - portable" by Boston   https://www.box.com/s/dqomh6mklpzm3x780nus   I tried "lighter", but I don't know if that's better or not, just sounds weaker to me. You say Brad Delp wasn't one to pull chest voice up, but I thought he was at first. Actually hearing him in the mix, it did sound almost falsetto to me, but then I stumbled on an acapella and I've loaded it here for you     That to me is a pretty chesty (mostly clean) mid-high sound. If that's not, could you please post a better example of what is?   And now here's my take on being lighter    Each take is lighter than the last, and the last one demonstrates what I think my falsetto is. I think the 2nd take is my favorite out of them, but it still lacks the "body" to me.   And KillerKu, yeah, still exploring and I hope I'll find that sound someday, thanks for your hope and compliments! And I don't know if it's just me but listening to your Queensryche take--love Mindcrime....not so much Mindcrime 2 -- I think you should try Wake Me Up or something sung by Aloe Blacc, I don't know, the tone here reminds me of it, maybe it's the vibrato. Speaking of which I have no idea how to get that kind of tone.   And finally, m.i.r, I'm sorry but I don't really understand what you're talking about on shutting the folds and using compression. It sounds like a good technique but I have no idea where to start.   And sorry for not responding til now, just got back from work. Christmas vacay yay! You know what that means, more posts!

Thanks m.i.r. I'll give that a try! That seems like it would take at least a second to pull off though and can you outline where the breathing points for this song would be for example? I don't see many. Here's how I see it   Now if you're feeling kinda low about the dues you been paying, future's coming much too slow. (gasp but no exhale) And you want to run but somehow you just keep on staying, can't decide on which way to go-o-o (possible gasp, not enough time?) Yeah yeah yeah, I understand about indecision, but I don't care if I get behind, people living in competition (gasp but no exhale) all I want is to have my peace of mind (time to fully breathe, followed immediately by some highest notes) YEAHH Whoo whoo whoo    And to do all that while still concentrating on trying to lift the soft palate/bite the apple thing

Thanks, you think the technique is getting better?   Listening back I like most of the power, but still think I'm struggling on pitch and control, and my highs sound a bit screechy, but like I said, first day.

  Trying something new I just stumbled on while trying to figure out how to lift the soft palate, like my teacher keeps saying and I never seem to figure out. It was something like feeling any tension in the jaw instead of the throat with a more covered position. Like "lions roar smile" or something. It looks really stupid and at first I couldn't figure out how to actually form words like that. Anyway, I sang this mostly using that technique that I just discovered today and I'm pretty sure I like the sound. And I wasn't straining as much as usual! Progress   This was all raw takes with no instruments, (split between verses though)   Please let me know what you think!

Hey, thanks Phil! Now when you say repeat each line 3 times, you mean singing it right? Or do you mean speaking it? And what makes a line?? And tip 3 sounds insanely difficult but I'll give it a shot. You don't have to do that to the tempo right? Just broken up as separate exercises? Another thing I did is noticed all the vowels that are causing me to widen my tongue. The ones that cause me to widen and raise my tongue seem to be A (Eh, like canadian, eh?) Ee (Like Eek) I (Like Living) U (You, pronounced with the Y) And these seem to be narrow, low tongue ones: Ah I (Eye) O (Oh) U (Uh) Finally, this one just caused me to raise only the back of my tongue while the tip stayed low O (Ooh) The only difference between Ooh and You seems to be the Y... Not sure how helpful any of this is but my theory is when my tongue raises and widens it blocks my throat. "I know it's easier to walk away than look it in the eye" I oh I Ee Ah Ooh Ah Uh A Ah Ooh I I Ee I So that's....10 narrows and 3 wides and 2 wideish...

Alright great, thanks! And yeah I'll reach out to you on skype! Out of all the problems I thought I would have I never would've thought it would be timing! Maybe you're referring to the beginning of Surrounded where the MIDI actually didn't act out a tempo change where I got confused or something. thanks!

(Hi, Keith) Surrounded Metropolis Pt 1 Bridges In The Sky (a slightly easier one) These are all one take, no effects except some compression (except for Surrounded which has a little reverb) M/25 Pretty sure spinto tenor. So I've been taking lessons again for about a month now, and I'm doing more exercises to try to figure out singing with the diaphragm, and so I think these are a bit more supported, but not quite there yet. I also experiment with different voicing (like more nasal or more chest) mostly in Bridges in the Sky. Please tell me what you think and how I can improve? One of the hardest parts for me is keeping up with it all, it always seems there's no time to prepare for the next phrase. And the flips to falsetto-ish during just happened..wasnt intentional... Also I feel maybe I could do a bit better if I slept more than 3-4 hours a night, but enough complaining, I leave it open to you guys! Thanks

Thanks, and interesting facts ron, yeah, it doesn't change the fan split on the band, that's for sure! And the "always had that voice" part, well I mean, he joined Montrose in when he was ....26, right? What did he sound like before all that? Did he have lessons? Did he have weaknesses to smooth out? And yeah the last verse being falsetto (did you call it "falsetto" because it wasn't really falsetto?) was on purpose because I wanted to see how that would sound. I said I think if I could combine the falsetto with the fullish voice it would be a closer voice take to his. I'm not even sure if he yells like I'm doing it or he's got very high gain on the mic... My voice was getting tired in the beginning but after warming up and doing it a couple times it got more sustainable. Plus the chorus is always a good break from the above A4 stuff. Now....Dreams, on the other hand (that's the one I'm practicing with my teacher) is a killer. Btw, if I'm having trouble on songs like these, am I not a tenor? Or would these just be considered difficult for anyone?

Or "Van Hagar", if it matters. Getting back into actual singing lessons (woo!) trying to sing one of their power ballady things here. Since it's mostly vocal demo, didn't put much detail into instruments. Trying to force more power into it via diaphragm. No idea how he does it and my teacher is also stumped. Anyway... (If you just want the acapella (with drums...) skip halfway through the track.) It's done in some takes, 1 and 1/2 verses are double tracked (stops doubletrack around 1:09), and the last one was phoned in in falsetto. I think I'd have a closer sound to him if I could somehow combine the falsetto texture into the power of the supported fullish voice. But that's just an idea. So yeah, help please? For the record, here's his version. Listen to how damn effortless everything is, if you're not familiar with it. Thank you!

Haha yeah I was just joking because he sounds great and just like him. Cept for those parts I noted on the chorus.

Geoff, I have a few words for you. First off, what the hell were you thinking when you made Mindcrime 2? Destroying a classic like that. Should have just let it be, man. The only drawback in this song I noticed was during the chorus on some sustained notes, but I guess that comes with age, Mr. Tate. The word "stranger" and the sustained "stare" "Like they've always promised"

I thought everything was great, pronunciation could use some work as Lucca described, but all in all there was much emotion. My biggest thing to work on would be the timing/pacing. I don't know if you meant it that way but you were quite off the pace of the original. Now when I went to listen to your no-effects recording, how loud would you say you were singing? It sounds to me like you're kind of quiet/yet full through the whole thing. I want to know how you did that. What mic do you use/were you using high gain? I'm also going to add to the "don't try to belt like Leto" advice above that when I had a teacher, Jared Leto was one of the examples of singers he gave me that ruined their voices, not to follow. He showed a live recording where he could barely speak Also also I was curious, so I ran your no-effects vocals through a tuner and you had damn solid pitch. So much that I suspect you used some sort of pitch-corrector. But you didn't? How did you? Did you have a guide track?

Hey Lucca, thanks so much for your review! And glad to introduce you to the artist! Sorry I haven't gotten back to you in what I think is 2 days but I'm been extremely busy and sleepy (I work overnight) just like I am now so I'm not even going to attempt to sing. Weird thing is that when I'm singing it outside of my little "recording booth/closet" I don't find I have as much difficulty. I'm not sure what's different, maybe it's the listening through headphones vs just doing it, maybe it's because I don't follow tempo when acapella in everyday life. I will try the things you've said, but what is TVS and what do you mean by the windy heys and huhs? And you don't think this is a speak-singing type song? I'm working on getting a small mirror in said vocal booth so I can practice more efficiently too.

Even if it doesn't sound like Mustaine (and I've never heard the original of this song) it still sounds badass. I think your voice fits it well. A little strained on the higher notes but mostly full (look at me pretending I know what I'm talking about) Anyway I just wanted to reassure you both your voice and instrumental are awesome. Now honest answer, what effects did you use on the vocals? I heard what sounds like flanger on the opening, but on the main I'm curious if that's completely clean or not. Did you doubletrack?

Bump, just like the old days But I'll only bump this once, and then if more time passes unreplied I'll try something different cuz maybe people don't like the song.

In this one I tried to keep it talking-feeling (cept that gets harder once it got to E.) I'm pretty sure I'm a tenor of some sort, but it's harder to get that high in speech volume and I still have trouble with A4 and higher in full voice... but anyway! Hollywood Sign Also, acapella voice (no effects) of it in case you want it for better judgment or something. Acapella The actual song - Hollywood Sign - Scott Grimes I was last here probably a year or two ago (wonder if anyone remembers), and I'm pretty sure the last song I did was another Scott song because I'm obsessed. Anyway since then I've had some lessons, but also hard times with money and moving and long story short I'm not taking lessons anymore. Any feedback would be great. One problem I noticed while doing this was during the choruses I ran out of breath a lot And the final sustained yell sounds goaty.

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind and do more research and practicing trying to find that sweet spot. I never knew about open vowels and things like that.

Thank you guys, I'll keep that suggestion mind for next time. And Ronws what exactly are open vowels? Yeah I had just learned about how closely what you're feeling is connected to your actual singing through the diaphragm and nervous system, so I feel I really got into it. ...Why would someone who doesn't even like rock comment on a rock song? Later I'm going to try Livin on the Run, but I feel I need more power and breath support for that one first, I tried it and I couldn't find where to pause and breathe, and I couldn't get the distortion (maybe it's rasp, still trying to gRasp the concept) in my voice for the chorus without actually feeling like I hurt myself (so I stopped) but he sang these when he was 30ish, so I got time. I'm running out of money for everything fast, let alone lessons and just worried about general living costs now though. I need to find a job for rent...

Thanks guys I'm glad you liked it! What do you think I should work on the most? And mr-leonor are you saying I should've put a little vibrato on "walk awaaay" or that there was unwanted vibrato? Thanks again!

Hack. HAcky. Hack and the Hacktones. So I made a cover of Sunset Blvd by Scott Grimes. He's quickly become one of my favorite singer-songwriters, with Livin' on the Run and Sunset Blvd as the best hits (haven't heard the rest yet, I admit I learned about these from American Dad (he's Steve) but still). At first I thought this song was too light for my taste but it's grown on me, anyway enough on that. I recorded differently this time, with the rockband mic sitting on a pile of clothes about a foot away instead of holding it, and I think that's making a good difference. In this song I did the best I could with harmonies during the chorus, but I'm sure there's plenty I'm missing from the actual song, and better mixing required. Either way I'm calling this done, it was fun! For vocals there's just reverb, and some compression and effects and panning but no pitch altering effects. My main complaint is the end probably, I feel I tightened up at the end of the bridge, and also emphasized some words by trying different things while I was singing (like during the 1st verse "PLAY the world" I was thinking "Hmm, is my throat open, can't tell, lets try concentrating on breathing here") also I think I fell out of tune in some places but going back and doing a 2nd take would be cheating and haunt me forever. I also tried different things in each chorus, like one with more legato to higher notes, and others with the falsetto-like-or-maybe-its-headvoice that Scott does in his. Other than that, all instruments by hand, drums sequenced, and piano cheated a little because I separated the melody from the chords. Through this project I learned I can't follow the metronome on piano with both hands. I'll have to work on that. I really like it (I think I still need a better voice tone or something though, rasp maybe?), but I want to hear what you think. And one of the things I notice is to me (even listening back) most of time it sounds like I'm in tune, but the tuner I put on this track says I'm off by a little most of the time. It also says I'm not doing the F# "AAAWAY" on tune, but it doesn't sound like that to me. http://picosong.com/nuZr/ And here is the original: Thanks!

Hey MDEW, so do you mean end my singing note quicker, and use the leftover time to take more breath for the next one? Because when you say "take a breath while the note is still sounding" I don't think I can breath in while still singing. Sorry I just woke up so I may've misunderstood :P