PianoandGuitarguy

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  1. PianoandGuitarguy

    Raw voice excerpt - voice type and good material for me??

    I see, fair enough. I have to think about what I want to sing that I can get a karaoke version of and would be a good example piece.
  2. PianoandGuitarguy

    Raw voice excerpt - voice type and good material for me??

    I was curious what people here heard. Both here and on sites like TheRangePlace, they tend to call singers Baritones quicker than classical singers would. Eric Adams of Manowar, for example, is called a baritone, because he has some weight to his sound, and goes down to A2 or so. An opera person I think would call him squarely a tenor. We can got into how rock singers produce the sound a little differently, and that has something to do with it too, but I think in general you have to have a much darker, heavier sound in opera-land before you get called a baritone, instead of a lower tenor. With me, for example, I have an E2, and with some mixing my low range could sound bigger, but at best I'm being called a Baritenor for pop purposes, and would likely settle into one of a low tenor fachs if I went the opera route, although opera people tend to wait a long time while a voice really finds itself before they are ready to be certain about it. It's still possible I would wind up singing as a lyric tenor (Pavarotti, for all his hugeness of sound, was a lyric tenor). So basically, I wanted to see what 'rock ears' heard.
  3. So, nothing fancy, but I made a quick recording of my voice on my phone, and wanted to get feedback on my voice type, as well as some thoughts. E2 -E5: raw voice.mp3 my E4 sounds nice, but above that I'm strangling a cat. I can, and have, hit high notes better than that sometimes, but I wanted to just let it all hang out and do a really basic raw sound and show where I'm at. I've spent most of my life assuming I was a baritone, and the lowest octave is the one I talk and am most comfortable in. But even on this recording I can hear how my voice really brightens and gets big in the upper registers. So, once I learn how to use them better, maybe that's more my thing. My teacher thinks once I get a handle on things, I'll have Bb4, B4, and C5 in my chest voice with a nice sound to them. But although I want to be able to sing things like Iron Maiden and Dream Theater, it's been suggested my voice might be too heavy for rock tenor stuff. If anyone has any suggestions of songs to try, I'd be willing to give it a shot.
  4. I find it funny how I might be working on a piece with my teacher, and struggling with a part that only goes up to D4, and then I switch genres and I'm happily hitting G4 without difficulty. I almost want to classify things as 'rock high' vs. 'classical high' or 'Broadway high'. I had a piece of music that was killing me that centered around C#4 and D4 that kept going back into my throat, and I had to stop after a few minutes. But then I'm singing Karn Evil 9 by ELP, which is basically 100 G#4's and A4's in a row...and it's not a problem. Does anyone else find this to be the case? What is it about certain things that make them harder than others?
  5. PianoandGuitarguy

    Expanding range downward

    I be curious to hear what people here think of this, because my experience is that I actually feel more in danger of hurting myself trying to sing very low notes than very high ones. I'll try to really relax and get those 'pedal tones', and they will come, but if I do it too much eventually I'll get, "Ouch! OK, better stop doing that now." I think of it almost like speeding up the vocal fry from an effect into audible range, kind of like a drummer playing double-bass faster until it starts to just sound like a solid tone. It's hard to get solid, but it feels like with a lot of control you could produce almost any sub-voice note this way, albeit not loudly.
  6. PianoandGuitarguy

    Classical teacher's thoughts on rock singers

    First of all, expensive to live in this area so you don't usually get those rates. I charge $55 a lesson ( for guitar and piano), as does my vocal teacher. I had a piano PhD who taught me for a bit who asked $85, and that's about the rate I see for an hour with a high-end vocal teacher who might be on a music school faculty or the like. She gets a large variety of students, usually younger, some more advanced working on stage auditions. I'm her only metalhead, though. For example, she gets 'rock' students who mean they want to sing things like Wonderwall by Oasis, which to me is less interesting because you don't exactly need much singing technique at all to sing that, yes? It's like a piano student bringing a 4 chord song to me. I'd much rather they brought me something weird and interesting.
  7. PianoandGuitarguy

    Classical teacher's thoughts on rock singers

    There's a general thing here that extends beyond singing or even music. I have what some people think of as a kind of scientific mind, where it's my natural tendency to approach everything skeptically, ask the questions that most challenge assertions, weigh everything out, etc. This drives some people nuts. There are those who think when you question something in their advice, it's a personal insult and you don't appreciate them, and those who need to think in definite certainties about the world where their totally 100% right always. I just find it interesting that one group has one perspective, and another group has another. I love heavy metal music, and you can think Dio sounds awesome (which I do) while also realizing his approach does not fit an ideal in another world. I mean, Dio himself could probably have told us that. He sang in multiple genres, which means he 'got' what was the right approach for the world of metal, while not being oblivious to the world outside of it.
  8. PianoandGuitarguy

    Classical teacher's thoughts on rock singers

    I had an interesting experience at the end of my voice lesson yesterday. We were talking about rock repertoire and I mentioned to her I sing along with Iron Maiden and and lots of other music with high notes in the car all the time, and she wanted to hear what I was doing (since she thought it was completely wrong for my voice). I did the section form To Tame a Land starting at 3:13 : She was surprised what I was able to do. It's interesting how I have a 'rock mode' mentally when I sing, and a classical/stage mode where I can't go as high. My D5 at the end sucked because I'm trying to hit it in chest voice and don't know how to blend head voice at all yet, but I got up to that point decently. She mentioned, "You have a really good ear, because you're doing almost exactly what he's doing, even the bad things." (Like the unsupported drop offs on 'You'll see, he'll be...') I can see that's going to be a problem for me in the future, because when I want to 'act' a line of music, I want to do it with a speech-like delivery, which is totally different than a singing delivery, and totally worse for your voice, I can feel.
  9. PianoandGuitarguy

    Classical teacher's thoughts on rock singers

    I think about Ken Tamplin who has tons of videos on youtube. Some singers his voice is close to and his imitations sound excellent. Others, he's doing what his voice can do, but it's just not right for him. I might be able to hit Geddy Lee's notes with some more skill, but it's just SO not my voice, it's always going to sound weird, and then you have to wonder what the point is.
  10. PianoandGuitarguy

    Classical teacher's thoughts on rock singers

    OK, and I suppose that's true, so I see your point. But I can't exactly walk in next time and say, "there are some people on a modern singing forum who don't think you're legit, can you go perform something extremely difficult and let me record it to prove them wrong?" She had her career, she's on the Playbills, and if that's true (assuming no massive scheme to rig wikipedia and google search) I have no cause to believe she'd need to make anything else up. So, if you're performing stuff like the thing I linked above well enough to land serious gigs, that assumes a certain ability.
  11. PianoandGuitarguy

    Classical teacher's thoughts on rock singers

    ? This implies you think I'm making up a teacher, or that you think she's making up her credentials, both of which are untrue. And I'm not sure why you think it would be unrealistic.
  12. PianoandGuitarguy

    Classical teacher's thoughts on rock singers

    It's not appropriate for me to reveal names and the like. And she likely wouldn't have interest in recording herself to prove to an internet forum she can sing. She did Broadway, I've heard her do 70's singer/songwriter style vocal and piano numbers that were spot on, and she did backup vocals for a big 70's rock act tour when she was younger. But yes, modern rock is NOT her thing, she doesn't get why you would want to sing like that.
  13. PianoandGuitarguy

    Classical teacher's thoughts on rock singers

    Oh, she can sing. She's more or less retired and just teaches now, but she had a career as a coloratura soprano. Just to give some perspective, this was her go-to audition piece for years: ...you don't get hired doing that unless you're have serious singing and performance chops.
  14. As I've mentioned in other posts, I've been taking lessons for a few months with an opera/musical theater singer, and I've played a whole lot of different singers I enjoy for her to hear her opinion, and I find it interesting to hear the impressions of someone from a different world and different sensibilities. I thought I'd compile all the ones I remember into a collection because I was also curious to hear reactions: Chris Cornell: Disliked. "He's just screaming in the one part. And his high notes are very thin, but he puts all the scream and effect on it. If you heard it without that stuff it would just be a very weak sound." Bruce Dickinson(Iron Maiden): Disliked. "Sound is thin, poor technique on higher notes, badly produced vibrato." Dio: Unimpressed. "Again, just a thin tenor putting some effect on his voice." Warrel Dane(Nevermore): Liked. "Good control. He's making a choice on every note." Eric Adams(Manowar): "One of the best sounds of all the singers you've played for me. But still a thinner tenor voice." Mike Patton: Liked. "Nice voice, clearly knows how to sing. But I wish I could hear his natural sound more instead of all this 'put on' stuff he does." Tarja Turunen and Marco Hietala(Nightwish): "You can hear both these people know how to sing correctly, they're just doing some weird things because that's the style I guess. Forcing the straight tones is making her sound flat, and she knows that, but she still does it." Devin Townsend: "If I were his ENT doctor, I'd love him, because of all the money I'd make form all the damage he's doing. He has to be on steroids to be doing what he does consistently. Either that or he's just a freak." Eric Clayton (Savior Machine): "Completely different from the other stuff you've shown me. Sounds like a regular baritone stage voice." Daniel Heiman (Lost Horizon): "Not bad. He's doing some of that weird stuff again, but he sounds good otherwise." Alissa White-Gluz (Arch Enemy): "Oh God, that's a woman!? I can't listen, it's too painful, she's ripping her vocal chords to shreds." Phil Anselmo (Pantera): "I guess it's...kind of like singing." Tim "Ripper" Owens (Judas Priest, Iced earth): "His voice will probably last a bit longer because he knows what he's doing and being very controlled about it." Mikael Akerfeldt (Opeth): "He's got a nice voice." Mikael Akerfeldt growling: "There's no way he's producing that sound naturally. Either that or he's doing it very quietly and it's made to sound much bigger."
  15. PianoandGuitarguy

    Adele Facing Vocal Injury Stigma (?)

    My hearing is that she'd been on tons of steroids to do what she was doing night in and out, and finally had enough damage to need surgery. She's had to change a part or two, but refuses to take more drastic measures like dubbing parts of her shows or really changing her style. My impression, based on what I've learned thus far, is that 'properly' does deservesto be in quotation marks there, because her soulful belting thing is NOT proper and can never really be; it's inherently a damaging style. But to sing otherwise would remove a lot of the style and affect from the music that modern audiences look for.