Jump to content

Too much air left before starting a new singing phrase

Rate this topic


hummingbird25
 Share

Recommended Posts

Hello everybody,

I have a question about how to manage your breath intake.

When I sing, I feel I always have air left in my lungs. Always before I sing, I just can't help taking in too much air.

I try to pretend that I am speaking and only inhale as much as I do for speaking. I also have learned the so called "recoil" and I do it quiet well but when I let the stomach relax and come out I somehow automaticallly take in extra air.

Or does anybody know why I keep having air left in my lungs before I start a new phrase? It's very rare that I take in the right amount of air, I just wanna be able to control this, then I know the rest will come with ease. Or do I need to focus more on the recoil?

 

Hope somebody can help. I would appreciate it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have to remember to occasionally blow out all of your air and just let the breath come back in naturally.  Sometimes during long phrases you may need to take a quick breath but to just draw in a little more air without letting it all out what you end up with is old air in your lungs that is oxegen depleated.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello again!

Thanks to all of you who replied to my post .

YouCanSingAnything: I'm actually thinking that you are right. I might be thinking too much of breathing, instead of relaxing. I am "oversupporting" myself, where I also think might be the problem why I "overbreathe"? Does that make sense? Also I always had teachers who said to me to focus on my breathing and I just tend to overthink and it just won't help. So I think I will do what you suggest which is to learn to relax during singing, cause when I sing right technique thats when it feels like as easy as speaking! :)

Tonyy: I watched the clip. Basically I will just stop thinking about inhalation and let my body do that for me. Wil focus on singing more in a relaxed manner. Thanks for showing me the clip, it made it even more clear for me! :)

I also feel I tend to push my voice cause I eagerly when I want louder volumes. Maybe this is why my belly tense up and I cant inhale properly either.

 

Can I show you guys a singing clip:

 

Does she sing thick fold or thin fold? Between 1.47-2.18 (also, is it think or thick on the very last note in this section?) I wasn't sure wether to start a new topic so i write here. I would like to be able to sing like this girl. Thats all I want :) And Ive attached to show you how I sing, although its a different song but i want the same typ of technique like this girl.

 

Thank you very much for helping me out. I appreciate it.

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0cy4atIXPFc

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guys,

You are undervaluing the importance of daily exercise of the muscles involved in breathing & breath management.

Just my opinion here, (again, all depending on what you are singing and how you wish to sound) you do not want to be out of breath or at the end of an exhale when you sing. You should have breath at the beginning all the way to the end of a phrase. In other words, you are much better off with residual air left than to just be at the end.

Some will not agree, but you should be breathing very low and deep and into the sides and back..... and you develop the body to the point where you can keep that expansion while you sing.  You train yourself not to let this expansion collapse.  At first it is very tiring, and yes you'll feel definite tension, and it will feel very unnatural.....I know, it will seem counterproductive at first.

You will find in time, you have developed the ability to displace tension away from your throat.  They'll be tension below, but upstairs you will be released and more relaxed.

You also have more power, stamina, and versatility then you ever thought possble

It takes time to get to this point.  So don't rush it, or think you going to get this overnight.  Because if you do it wrong, you WILL tense and lock everything up top, completely defeating the purpose.

 

                

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello hello,

I watched the clip with Ron Anderson and yes it is true that once the ribs collapse the support IS gone! I think that happens if we tense our belly muscles instead of engaging the muscles as for correct support? This is what I mean that I feel in my case that I tense up when starting to sing a note, no matter how much or little air I've inhaled. It sort of feels like relaxation is the key for good inhalation and support. Cause when I sit/lay in the sofa relaxed I breath relaxed and my belly comes out on inhalation and in during exhalation. And this is what I been told to have the same for singing, but to control it and keeping it relaxed. Does it make sense?

I believe we might tense up because we are sometimes afraid to learn something new that is so easy and effortless as we are used to this one way or one feeling of singing.

I sent a clip of me singing and could you perhaps give me feedback on that one? :)

Thanks for having an interesting conversation here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You breathe from your belly laying down because when you stand your abdominals are tensed in order to maintain an upright posture. Unfortunately, we don't sing while laying on our backs haha.

And yes true IMO most peoples problems with breathing is that they tense up before doing it thinking "OKay... its time to SUPPORT and SING now" when it's not nearly as serious or difficult as they think it is.

 Hang on. I don't breathe from my belly. I can just see the sensation of the diaphragmatic breathing more clear when i lay on my back. And this breathing is the correct breathing for singing. We use this breathing when we talk even. But controlling it is the trick and this is what I mean when somebody tells me to think about breathing, then yes I say exactly the same as you. I go like "Ok, inhale ONLY a bit air... oh shit. I am all tensed up now. Why?? I tried so many times to make this but I just start hyperventilating now".

 

I actually have no problem with my breathing and support and all that when I sing quietly and in a comfortable range.. it mostly happens when i want to achieve louder volumes and more thickness to my voice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 I actually have no problem with my breathing and support and all that when I sing quietly and in a comfortable range.. it mostly happens when i want to achieve louder volumes and more thickness to my voice.

Right here.  I think you are doing that because maybe you think loudness on high notes comes from a lot of air and it doesn't. It comes from resonance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Right here.  I think you are doing that because maybe you think loudness on high notes comes from a lot of air and it doesn't. It comes from resonance.

Actually, you made a point. I better back off the pressure and allow the resonance to happen.. Maybe this is why I struggle to do sufficient twang as well.. Thanks tho! Highly appreciated.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That Opera singer is absolutely supporting his voice and managing the breath for each and every line...lol!!!

You can rest assured he has developed the musculature needed to keep the diaphragm controlled and the ribs from collapsing....and then some over a period of many years...and very likely does some kind of breath work every day. 

Is this level mandatory for contemporary singing?  Maybe not, but it's benefits cannot be overstated.

Breath is analygous to the engine...Do you want a 4 cylinder or a turbocharged 8?

 

 A lot of us forget this but many beginners will over-support which causes tense, rather restrained singing with too little air being expelled.

No, it's more likely you're under supporting, which causes the tension with too little air being expelled! This is the part you don't understand.

Roberto Alanga, for example, doesn't "support" and his technique seems fine.

LOL!!!  C'mon now...Did you ask him?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually, you made a point. I better back off the pressure and allow the resonance to happen.. Maybe this is why I struggle to do sufficient twang as well.. Thanks tho! Highly appreciated.

It is something I learned from myself. By using resonance for loudness, I more properly place the note with both vowel use and sensation and therefore control the exhale. I have a feeling it is not just working on one thing but several at once, like the way the body is actually adjusting several things to maintain balance on a bicycle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tristen, I'm not the kind of person who has to be right.  I just think it would be a mistake to downplay it's importance to propeling and sustaining tone.

If you listen to the Opera singer carefully, you will hear him recoil at times at the end of his phrases.  He has to manage all different levels of subglottic pressure. 

And don't forget the marketing side of this game.....Most singers are not going to readily volunteer to tell us about the many years of hard work and practice they put into this stuff. 

All I can suggest is if you are a serious student of voice, it's one subject worthy of exploration.

I am a user of the Appoggio method.  I bought into it and its principles.  If you care to explore it, I'm sure you know Franco Tenelli's You Tube Channel.  

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Kevin Richards said it best that what is important is controlling the exhale. That is breath management. I don't consciously belly breathe when singing but I do belly breathe when I am trying to relax, just as he described. That being said, I do not tank up on air in preparation to sing a phrase.

I remember there used to be a question of whether Lou Gramm was chest heaving. I say it was a red herring. It did not matter if he shrugged or heaved his chest. Controlling the exhale is what gave (and gives) him range and power.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think all singing requires deep and low breathing, but to get this done we need to relax the abdominal muscles on the inhalation. This allows your lungs to fill up because the diaphragm can be moved out of the way (downwards) to let the lungs really get filled up with air.

I personally don't control my exhalation. I think every singer needs to control different things in singing technique. I need to for example control my abdominal muscles. My belly button area should be soft and let the "diamond" (Solar plexus, waist muscles, pelivs muscles) engage. THis has really helped me understand support. The belly button area should go inwards the more support you need. I should try to make a video to really show you, but I have a bump and not sure wether it would be any good.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello again! 3rd post!

Please will everyone spend a couple of minutes to watch this video. This has made extremely clear for me and it might help you guys as well! Please have a look. I was so pleased with this lady explaining breath control and support.

She made it very clear for me. My problem was really as I knew it all the time, that I keep tensing my belly during inhalation. My inhalation wasn't really the problem, but not letting go of the belly muscles during inhalation.

Please everyone watch it cause I have been one singer struggling with this for long time and she explains it beautifully. Sorry to praise her so much, but I appreciate you guys help as well. In fact withoutyou maybe I wouldn't've found this video.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

I've come to realize support is very, very difficult skill to explain. You can watch all the videos and read all the books, but it still has to be worked on and experienced for yourself.

Tension is absolutely required at times!  You are using muscles to keep the diaphragm controlled and even stationary (at times). You have to learn to control exhalation to sing well.

But it's good, requisite tension!  Again, what you think is tension and what another singer thinks is tension is part of the problem. It's even more confusing to a newer singer when you say that you need this tension to alleviate tension elsewhere.

Oh Boy!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...