Rosa Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 Sorry all about my deleting the other thread by mistake. My final conclusion at the moment is that I am going to call Falsetto Neutral from now on, because I don't want to offend my favorite singers or their fans, and it seems some people dislike the word Falsetto. I am not going to use the rest of the M1 etc terminology because I don't understand it completely and I am not a professional so not interested in learning it, but Neutral sounds good to me to describe Falsetto. I am reposting a couple of videos that were good to illustrate Falsetto. I was saying how in Spanish Falsete has a different idea, and even found that there was a singer called El Rey del Falsete (Falsetto King), but even so, not everybody has the same idea about it and I still like more the word Neutral! This teacher explains it very well and teaches us how to train it (I am aware teachers all over the world will teach similar things just not calling it falsetto training, maybe): Minute 3:25 she starts speaking and singing Falsete: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosa Posted January 24, 2016 Author Share Posted January 24, 2016 That teacher above tells us that a good example to see Falsetto all through a song is Astrud Gilberto when she sings "Fly me to the Moon": Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabroni Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 This reminded me of when Andre Matos explains (in Portuguese) the difference between head voice and falsetto, with a demonstration at 5:25. I don't know Portuguese, but the short demo he gives is a good example of the difference between the two. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabroni Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 I am watching that video again. Do you know of some singer that "Twangs" a lot? Robert did it very well, but I can't see it translated in a singer, what kind of. And Robert's explanation is good. The thing is that he is very Modal, not Falsetto style. But many singers, both male and female, are totally Falsetto singers. We might disagree and call it something different. Why do you think Falsetto is "disconnected"? (Listening to Andre Matos). Early Rob Halford and early Geoff Tate were lighter singers who did a lot of twanging. "Exciter" by Judas Priest and "Take Hold of The Flame" by Queensryche come to mind. If you wanted to bridge early, going from a "full" sounding low note into a weak and windy falsetto would not blend well, thus sounding disconnected. You go from having good fold compression to having very little compression. If you can keep the compression into the head voice, the sound will blend and sound connected throughout. Listen to 2:07 of this clip, Rob Halford sirens from low to high with no break/crack/flip and a full sounding tone throughout, never going windy and weak. No strain or stress at all, just a really well coordinated voice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabroni Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 Just reposed my videos and comments from the previous thread. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosa Posted January 24, 2016 Author Share Posted January 24, 2016 And then now I have to say that Andre Matos is in all the list of "Falsete singers". I've learnt more since then and can understand that video you uploaded. He didn't like people saying he sings in Falsete and explained the difference. Well, he has his idea of Falsete. To me, he sings in Neutral mode. I've already showed that lots of my favorite singers sing in Neutral (I am not into Heavy Metal though). And one of the quotes from wikipedia "Falsete" I liked very much was this: Quote En la música pop del siglo XX y actual, muchos cantantes utilizan el falsete, mejorando de esta forma la expresividad de su voz y consiguiendo en ocasiones unos agudos de mayor belleza que con su voz natural.5 Where it says many singers in the XX century and now use Falsetto, improving that way the expressiveness of their voices and gaining sometimes high notes which are more beautiful than with their natural voice. We were discussing if Falsetto had to be something apart or could be Mixed. I am more and more convinced it is usually Mixed and it is nearly always a fundamental part of singing. It can be Mixed with Chest, with Head...having in mind all these things are hard to totally pin down, but well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDEW Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 Rosa, I wanted to apologize to you for somewhat hijacking your thread.earlier, Let's just say that there is an element within falsetto that can get "Locked". Neutral I totally agree with everything attributed to falsetto. Even the mixing for somewhat louder and higher pitches. I am glad you kept this thread open. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gsoul82 Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 42 minutes ago, Rosa said: And then now I have to say that Andre Matos is in all the list of "Falsete singers". I've learnt more since then and can understand that video you uploaded. He didn't like people saying he sings in Falsete and explained the difference. Well, he has his idea of Falsete. To me, he sings in Neutral mode. I've already showed that lots of my favorite singers sing in Neutral (I am not into Heavy Metal though). And one of the quotes from wikipedia "Falsete" I liked very much was this: Where it says many singers in the XX century and now use Falsetto, improving that way the expressiveness of their voices and gaining sometimes high notes which are more beautiful than with their natural voice. We were discussing if Falsetto had to be something apart or could be Mixed. I am more and more convinced it is usually Mixed and it is nearly always a fundamental part of singing. It can be Mixed with Chest, with Head...having in mind all these things are hard to totally pin down, but well... Hmm...I don't think I understand this. Are you talking about switching between chest voice and falsetto? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosa Posted January 24, 2016 Author Share Posted January 24, 2016 Mdew, you explained many things very well...sorry they are lost now. One of the things I remember you saying is how Falsetto is especially important to try to train for those who are stuck and can't sing in their higher notes. And that some girls can't just leave Falsetto. (I consider myself more in the first band...training Falsetto is good for me). Gsoul82, since I came to the forum I've described some singers as using Falsetto. It was my first attempts at analyzing how someone is singing. So, for example, I was trying to sing "Close to you" by Carpenters, and paying attention, it seemed to me she was in a mix of Falsetto and Chest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosa Posted January 24, 2016 Author Share Posted January 24, 2016 When listening to Janis Joplin, I thought (I had just learnt what Belting is about) Belting Falsetto: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDEW Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 This is the problem that I have when people want to call something falsetto. Maybe I do need to go back and reevaluate but Karen's singing is soft and possibly airy and some may define falsetto as that but Karen is clearly singing a Modal Speach like phonation. Modal is never falsetto. Same problem with Janis singing a Falsetto belt. This is a Modal belt/chesty Belt maybe a little high pitched/scream like, but not within Falsetto in any manner. Falsetto if anything is light and has no depth of tone because it does not create any overtones to be amplified. I still can agree with Neutral though. Neutral is a soft speach like sound. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillerKu Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 Neutral is my favorite terminology for the sound as well. If you aren't familiar with CVT take a look at their definition of modes: http://completevocalinstitute.com/research/vocal-modes/general/ Pay special attention to how all modes overlap with neutral. When I speak of singing in gray areas, I'm speaking of leaning out from neutral to other modes. Neutral (soft/falsetto quality, low volume in the lower voice, can be louder higher) is the big sphere Curbing (cry/moan quality, medium volume) is the sphere to the right Edge (screaming) is the sphere below that Overdrive (shouting quality) is the sphere on the bottom Neutral is the most flexible mode according to their research and also in my experience. That's why swelling to and from neutral is such a useful skill imo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDEW Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 Let's give our friend Kevin Richards a little plug. Listen how he decends in "Falsetto" If Karen were singing like this she would not have the power or depth of sound that she has in the range she is singing. Listen to the differnce of the top notes in Falsetto and Head voice. In this clip he is singing a Light head voice wich CAN be thickened for Belting the Falsetto will always be wispy sounding. Also add that Kevins high headvoice is also in Neutral (without air) on this video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosa Posted January 24, 2016 Author Share Posted January 24, 2016 We have agreed Karen and Janis sing in Neutral, Mdew. (watching the video now) I don't think most girls sing THAT airy as Kevin in his example though. I will not defend singing so airy is healthy, by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDEW Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 A natural falsetto sits above the passaggio. In this area it does not HAVE to be that airy. It gets airy below a certain pitch depending on the singer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillerKu Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 4 minutes ago, Rosa said: We have agreed Karen and Janis sing in Neutral, Mdew. (watching the video now) I don't think most girls sing THAT airy as Kevin in his example though. I will not defend singing so airy is healthy, by the way. Haha. I've seen Kevin doing what appeared to be exaggerating 'falsetto'. Like the biggest H in the world. Might as well not adduct the folds at all and just huff and puff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosa Posted January 24, 2016 Author Share Posted January 24, 2016 Ok, Mdew, I was talking about Falsete! Not Falsetto Quote Se utiliza para alcanzar notas más allá del registro normal del cantante, tanto agudas como graves, aunque lo más frecuente es que se emplee para agudos. La principal característica del falsete es el notable cambio de color y timbre de la voz al efectuarse, en comparación de la voz natural del ejecutante. https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsete translation = both high and low notes. KillerKu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDEW Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 Airy is only one aspect of falsetto. Because of the stiff fold configuration you will not get a "Rich/Thick sound from it, you will get a hollow flutey sound because it cannot generate more than a few partials. " Falsetto vs. Modal voice The falsetto register is produced as a result of the vibration of a fraction of the vocal folds. Usually the term falsetto is associated with male voices, and the head voice is associated with female voices. The antagonistic term is the modal or chest register. The difference between these registers lies in the different forms of vocal fold vibration resulting from different forms of adduction. The falsetto is the register used by the singer in the phonation of a higher fundamental frequency of a non-natural (and therefore false, Falsetto = false) tone. The result is a lighter and softer register that contrasts with the profound, dense and audible register that is "chest" register. The falsetto has higher energy expenditure, since only parts of the vocal fold are used. Typically the amplitude of the voice is reduced. Acoustically, the voice has a lack of harmonics (especially in the region of high frequencies) due to a lack of vigor in the use of resonances. This translates into a sharp timbre difference between modal and falsetto registers. The falsetto is usually associated with the production of sound with high fundamental frequency on an unnatural manner, and therefore consists of a technique that requires lots of practice. Normally it is detected when a singer produces sounds whose fundamental frequency is higher than the upper limit of his/her modal register. As mentioned, acoustically, falsetto is associated with the loss of energy of high frequency harmonics, along with increased energy of the fundamental. Thus, the fundamental component, in the falsetto register, will be prominent in relation to the singer's formant. The following figures which represent the magnitude spectrum on both cases, illustrate these aspects. " Taken from: http://paginas.fe.up.pt/~voicestudies/artts/demos.php#falsete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosa Posted January 24, 2016 Author Share Posted January 24, 2016 You chose a Portuguese source for Falsete, good try though. The Falsetto wikipedia (English) article is crazy, even in the parts where there is not much [citation needed]. The article includes what I quoted yesterday of "Commonly cited in the context of singing, falsetto, a characteristic of phonation by both men and women, is also one of four main spoken vocal registers recognized by speech pathology" but then many of the definitions are the typical people have for "men-only". That is, not Falsete. The one who wrote your article could be an American living in Portugal. Wikipedia in Portuguese is confusing: it says for both high and low notes, but then says especially for men. Falsetto/Falsete is confusing really...i much prefer Neutral. Quote Falsete ( do italiano falsetto = "tom falso") é o registro vocal por meio da qual o cantor emite, de modo controlado (não natural, por isso "falso"), sons mais agudos ou mais graves que os da sua faixa de freqüência acústica natural (tessitura). É assim chamada por depender diretamente do conjunto de músculos intrínsecos da laringe. É especialmente usada por cantores do sexo masculino para alcançar os registros de contralto (alto), meio-soprano e, eventualmente, de soprano. https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsete But! Mdew, I know you understand and like all those other Modes and the mechanics of the vocal folds, larynx and all that. I don't understand a thing... so if I don't reply exactly to what you talk of, now you know why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDEW Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 Actually I didn't notice what country the source was. This is my understanding of "Falsetto" and may be different from Falsete. When I speak of Falsetto I am truely speaking of the Unatural. False sounding, phonation that men Get stuck in when trying to sing above the passaggio. That "False" voice that men use to imitate females. When you are truely cursed with this(although not a curse) Full modal voice above passaggio for males is almost impossible without further help from a coach or teacher and a true modal sound BELOW passaggio for women is almost impossible without coaching of some sort. Because the coordination is totally different from a natural modal phonation. I do associate the TERM Falsetto with the False sound that the name derived from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosa Posted January 24, 2016 Author Share Posted January 24, 2016 I've remembered something I realized yesterday, which is that Falsete is so normal nowadays because with microphones it is much easier to sound good with it in some of its variants or mixes than without it. And I am finishing here now, leaving El Rey del Falsete (Falsetto King): Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felipe Carvalho Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Its important to notice that "neutral" on CVT describes a quality. Falsetto is a coordination that will affect the possible qualitites that you can produce, but with the exception of "overdrive", all modes have overlapping areas where the registers transition and where both falsetto and modal can produce a very similar quality, which is the reason why the method does not talk much about registration. However this leaves a gap of course when a singer is stuck on transitioning to M2, and they often say its use of "flageolet" bellow high C when a singer does so. And their fix is the same that everyone else does to fix falsetto, go for the softer quality while trying to use the same energy you do when shouting it out, use a stronger support, etc. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosa Posted January 25, 2016 Author Share Posted January 25, 2016 Felipe, I know you've understood what was my idea of Falsetto. I have not understood your first paragraph there now. Will I be able to use the word "Neutral" instead of falsetto? The word "modal" belongs to this same method? I didn't see it on KillerKu's page. I think I can understand the second paragraph. But this is so complex... Let's imagine I am using flageolet myself because my M2 is not really well developed. How would I know? How can they know someone is using flageolet? You think that's possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felipe Carvalho Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 No CVT does not talk much about registers. The answer is really just singing. If you do have a issue you will be restricted on what you can do on the middle-high range, you won´t be able to produce much other than soft voice. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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