Bel Canto: Mix of Head and Chest?

[Rosa]

In the Spanish wikipedia article for Falsete (I'm learning it by heart  ) I've read this:

Quote

 

En la técnica del bel canto, la voz de cabeza y la voz de pecho se mezclan y así camuflan el passaggio de la voz.

La maestra de canto Franziska Martinssen - Lohmann escribe sobre el rol de la voz de cabeza en el canto lírico:

También en el forte [la voz de cabeza] da la redondez esencial y la belleza vibrante al sonido. Para el agudo de la voz femenina es la parte decisiva. Donde falta, el sonido es duro y ha perdido su nobleza. (Martinssen - Lohmann (1999): 194).

El término es utilizado para la clasificación de registro vocal usado por las sopranos y cantantes con grandes rangos vocales. Desde el siglo XIII Edad Media, las sopranos con grandes rangos utilizaban este registro, sorprendiendo por las notas agudas. Este registro es producido cuando la voz de pecho se pasa a la cabeza para llegar a notas más altas que las de registro en falsete, de B5 Hasta C7.

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsete

 

The first sentence says: In the Bel Canto (opera) technique, Head Voice and Chest Voice are mixed and that way Passagio is camouflaged.

 

Since my main interest is in improving some voice similar to this, I should have a clear idea about it but I don't right now... I'll keep thinking and investigating, and will be very much interested in reading what you think about it.

[VideoHere]

I wasn't sure where to post this, so I'm just posting it.

 

 

 

[JonJon]

On 1/24/2016 at 5:50 PM, Rosa said:

In the Spanish wikipedia article for Falsete (I'm learning it by heart  ) I've read this:

The first sentence says: In the Bel Canto (opera) technique, Head Voice and Chest Voice are mixed and that way Passagio is camouflaged.

 

Since my main interest is in improving some voice similar to this, I should have a clear idea about it but I don't right now... I'll keep thinking and investigating, and will be very much interested in reading what you think about it.

If you go watch any of Franco Tenellis videos, that is all he talks about. He calls it chiaroscuro.

 

He is essentially saying that the chest and head voice qualities are combined and its a huge powerful sound but it is only a bit over an octave of range. Then he says that the alternative is to sing in "registers" where it is not so powerful but one has a larger range. What 99% of us do is, as he puts it, "sing in registers"

of course he is talking about opera technique where one classically didnt have a microphone so the voice had to be extremely powerful to project

[Rosa]

That was very interesting information I didn't know, JonJon. Thanks.

[K. Mc]

Chiaroscuro refers to dark and light colors in the operatic oratorio. It is a mastering of the darker, mouthier voce aperta resonance with the lighter and headier masque resonance.

In so far as chest or head is concerned in Bel Canto, it depends upon which tradition and school of Bel Canto one is instructed under. Italian Bel Canto uses headier ranges. It wasn't until Wagner and Verdi that a more forceful chestier sound would be used. The original, Italian Bel Canto always used headier and falsetto ranges to produce fifth octave sounds. The French disliked the excessive ornamentation and fioritiura and melismata and often removed it from their flavor and instruction in adapted Bel Canto. Much of this was determined by composer alone and preference in different Bel Canto schools.

[VideoHere]

1 hour ago, JonJon said:

If you go watch any of Franco Tenellis videos, that is all he talks about. He calls it chiaroscuro.

 

He is essentially saying that the chest and head voice qualities are combined and its a huge powerful sound but it is only a bit over an octave of range. Then he says that the alternative is to sing in "registers" where it is not so powerful but one has a larger range. What 99% of us do is, as he puts it, "sing in registers"

of course he is talking about opera technique where one classically didnt have a microphone so the voice had to be extremely powerful to project

Yes, but Tenelli's teachings and beliefs can be incorporated into Rock singing.  You can work it up to two octaves as he says, 2 1/2 in gifted cases (I've been watching all of his videos again lately.) Here's a perfect example!

 

 

[JonJon]

2 minutes ago, VideoHere said:

Yes, but Tenelli's teachings and beliefs can be incorporated into Rock singing.  You can work it up to two octaves as he says, 2 1/2 in gifted cases (I've been watching all of his videos again lately.)

I dont doubt it brother. I dig his vids just for the different perspective. For me its enough to know that the mega supported style gives a DIFFERENT sound. So to me thats another tool in the bag. Not that id want to sound like Franco, or that its better or worse that some other style....but just the fact that the heavy supported style gives its own sort of vibe

[JonJon]

I remember watching this movie years ago. Not being an opera guy, I wasnt expecting the nice note he hit

 

 

[VideoHere]

Tenelli's definitely got a perspective I share about the voice as one register or having no registers.  It just feels so right, but it's the long way ...lol.

To be honest if you can get a solid consistent voice from C3 to C5 (Tenor) what else do you really need?

Sure the note above are great, but they aren't a priority for me.

That kid has got some voice.  

[Jeremy Mohler]

1 hour ago, VideoHere said:

Tenelli's definitely got a perspective I share about the voice as one register or having no registers.  It just feels so right, but it's the long way ...lol.

To be honest if you can get a solid consistent voice from C3 to C5 (Tenor) what else do you really need?

Sure the note above are great, but they aren't a priority for me.

That kid has got some voice.  

Notice he says the notes above are great but they aren't a priority (but he at least mentions that they exist) However, notes below C3 may as well be a UFO Sighting as he doesn't even acknowledge their existence.  This proves that you have to learn to sing rock tenor or you will never have a girlfriend. (no, low notes are not cool don't let people try and make you feel better)

(Bob I'm just completely messing around by the way  carry on.. ) 

[KillerKu]

At this point I'd rather strengthen my lower end than high end. Even the hootiest tone can be amplified in the upper range and a lot of my favorite singers (Ruffin in particular) used that sound a lot which gave a great contrast and dimension of interest in his voice for me..

Lower notes would be more useful for composition of melodies and harmonies but the volume limitations that come with modal or the croaking sound that comes with fry can suck. If you take a lead voice in the C3 through C5 range, and add a hootie harmony on top, it sounds amazing, cohesive and compelling. If (you're not a bass) and you take that same range and croak out a D2 even in a harmony it can sound disjointed.

M0/fry/whatever you call it just isn't as practical for singing as M2/falsetto/neutral whatever you call it. People may focus on high notes cause it's the more practical thing to do, but I know from a songwriting standpoint, I'm not looking at my high E at the 22nd fret with frustration and trying to dial my amp tone to get  'thicker and thicker,' it's when I want to go low and below that low E string and with some volume that I grab a bass guitar. When I hear a melody in my head and it goes down there, it literally gets chopped off. I can hear the melody but it doesn't go there! I don't feel the same way about the upper notes. Cause in a worst case scenario you could include the melody as a harmony in the event it doesn't sound that great by itself.

[Rosa]

Reading all this, I am remembering something. My main practice now is in notes much higher than I was previously singing, but one day I've been singing very low for fun, and later when I was to sing the high-noted songs I couldn't. Probably it is just because I had not warmed up enough. I can read many people can sing in huge ranges, but do you still think that practicing in some scales (low for example) will difficult singing later in higher scales?

Edit: I've remembered I was singing very low in Neutral/Falsetto, and later wanted to sing in what for me is very high in Mix.

[Felipe Carvalho]

Belcanto is a set of practices and ideals related to interpretation of classical pieces, mostly related to the Italian school of singing. Its no "mix" of anything. Extensive use of legatto and conveying the notion of effortless production for example.

As far as registration goes, within that realm, male singers stay within the same mechanical register while females transition.

[K. Mc]

10 hours ago, Rosa said:

Reading all this, I am remembering something. My main practice now is in notes much higher than I was previously singing, but one day I've been singing very low for fun, and later when I was to sing the high-noted songs I couldn't. Probably it is just because I had not warmed up enough. I can read many people can sing in huge ranges, but do you still think that practicing in some scales (low for example) will difficult singing later in higher scales?

Edit: I've remembered I was singing very low in Neutral/Falsetto, and later wanted to sing in what for me is very high in Mix.

I personally do not find that to be the case. The idea behind Bel Canto, irregardless of the school is to have a perfect legato and a blending of the passagio to make it seem as if it is an effortless transition which leads to a well oiled voice.

Of course, depending upon how you are trained, this is entirely different. My lowest note is a G2, but this comes from voce aperta and it is then that I dip into a more baritonal sound, but without the resonance you would encounter with a natural baritone.

I was trained alongside contralto, mezzos, and sopranos as a countertenor, so my tessitura sits at the contralto range, but, my head voice and flageolet are extra developed at the sacrifice of my chestier voice which wasn't instructed in Italian Bel Canto.

Aforementioned, Wagnerian and Verdi styled pieces require heartier and chestier sounds, but, Wagner was German Opera.

We have discussed Bel Canto previously, and of course, everyone has their own idea that it means purely "beautiful singing" alone. But that was not the case in my training. We had to study music, music theory, we also had to study interpretation, we studied the voice as an instrument. We had to study melismata, fioritiura, cadenza, tremolo. All these things were to be considered. And most importantly we had to sing the music as was written, as your voice is the instrument producing the written text.

[benny82]

There is no real "mix" of mechanical registers. It is all about covering the switch of mechanics by modifying both registers. They still stay two separate modes. As JonJon and Felipe pointed out, males do not switch the mechanical registers usually unless they have to sing uncommon spike notes like E5/F5 for tenors. Most females do switch registers. The highest female singers (high sopranos) sometimes exclusively use their upper register.

It is all about the homogenization of sound and intensity between the two registers. Usually you will add more "chiaro" (bright) quality to the lower register and lessening the degree of fold closure compared to speaking voice while at the same time adding more "scouro" (dark) qualities to the upper register and increasing the degree of fold closure compared to the intuitive way to use the upper register. This homogenization will camouflage the transition for the listener, but it is still a transition, not a "mix". But some people just call it "mixing" if you add certain qualities to a register that makes it sound closer to another register.

Just imagine you have two glasses, one with water and one with orange juice. The glass with orange juice is fuller than the water glass. Let's say orange juice is chest voice and water is head voice. Then you just remove juice from the orange glass until it is on equal level with the orange juice (= "shedding weight/intensity of chest voice"). After that you put orange food color into the glass of water. You now have two glasses that look almost identical and you can switch easiliy between them and handle them with the same amount of "strength" because their weight is the same.

The important point here is that you did not really "mix" the glasses.

[Rosa]

I've understood all you said there, benny82, which is a first step for me  but I don't know what to think! You are explaining this from a physical (throat) point of view, right?

[ronws]

9 hours ago, benny82 said:

There is no real "mix" of mechanical registers. It is all about covering the switch of mechanics by modifying both registers. They still stay two separate modes. As JonJon and Felipe pointed out, males do not switch the mechanical registers usually unless they have to sing uncommon spike notes like E5/F5 for tenors. Most females do switch registers. The highest female singers (high sopranos) sometimes exclusively use their upper register.

It is all about the homogenization of sound and intensity between the two registers. Usually you will add more "chiaro" (bright) quality to the lower register and lessening the degree of fold closure compared to speaking voice while at the same time adding more "scouro" (dark) qualities to the upper register and increasing the degree of fold closure compared to the intuitive way to use the upper register. This homogenization will camouflage the transition for the listener, but it is still a transition, not a "mix". But some people just call it "mixing" if you add certain qualities to a register that makes it sound closer to another register.

Just imagine you have two glasses, one with water and one with orange juice. The glass with orange juice is fuller than the water glass. Let's say orange juice is chest voice and water is head voice. Then you just remove juice from the orange glass until it is on equal level with the orange juice (= "shedding weight/intensity of chest voice"). After that you put orange food color into the glass of water. You now have two glasses that look almost identical and you can switch easiliy between them and handle them with the same amount of "strength" because their weight is the same.

The important point here is that you did not really "mix" the glasses.

This reminds me of something else I read recently that an analysis of wave forms did show a switch but you can't "hear" it when a trained singer is going through that transition. Call it covering, goosenfrabe, eggs and toast, making adjustments to maintain a usable volume and tone where "it" happens to be.

[benny82]

6 hours ago, ronws said:

This reminds me of something else I read recently that an analysis of wave forms did show a switch but you can't "hear" it when a trained singer is going through that transition. Call it covering, goosenfrabe, eggs and toast, making adjustments to maintain a usable volume and tone where "it" happens to be.

Yes it is exactly that. M1 and M2 are separate registers and you usually see a small "glitch" in the wave forms, even though by sound the transition is perfectly smooth. However, as we males don't transition to M2 in classical singing (at least for most of the stuff and being no countertenors), there are no such things. We just spill the water glass and put some nice spices and wodka into our orange juice. 

[MDEW]

7 hours ago, benny82 said:

Yes it is exactly that. M1 and M2 are separate registers and you usually see a small "glitch" in the wave forms, even though by sound the transition is perfectly smooth. However, as we males don't transition to M2 in classical singing (at least for most of the stuff and being no countertenors), there are no such things. We just spill the water glass and put some nice spices and wodka into our orange juice. 

For those of us who flip into M2 .................  We need to give it a little more juice.

[Rosa]

I am still trying to understand all this, and I think it will take me some time (reading you all). I am bringing an article I found when I started in the choir, and have been reading again. I understood a bit better the second time, but I am sure in some months' time I will be able to read it again with a new pair of eyes. So I realize I don't know how I am expected to sing in the choir.  One reason could be that I hear voices different from each other around me, so I don't have a fixed model to follow.

The article: https://uofa.ualberta.ca/campus-saint-jean/-/media/csj/recherche/bel-canto-vocal-principles.pdf

 

In the examples of Felipe, I think I should sing in Falsetto (minute 1:40), not Head Voice (min. 2:14). I think my voice can be powerful enough in Falsetto; in Head Voice it'd be too much.

 

 

I've been thinking of some of the typical hints that are given, and it seems to me that the yawn would be more related to Falsetto and the NNGG to Head. Now, is there Chest in any of this? I can't make my mind about it right now.

Can we mix them all (Falsetto/Head/Chest)? Hmm...

[VideoHere]

12 hours ago, benny82 said:

Yes it is exactly that. M1 and M2 are separate registers and you usually see a small "glitch" in the wave forms, even though by sound the transition is perfectly smooth. However, as we males don't transition to M2 in classical singing (at least for most of the stuff and being no countertenors), there are no such things. We just spill the water glass and put some nice spices and wodka into our orange juice. 

The support plays a huge role in the extension of range according to Tenelli.

[Rosa]

I've found the examples at minute 3:40 very interesting: what happens when we go down in pitch from Falsetto and from Head Voice.

 

 

[MDEW]

    Are you starting to understand WHY we kept making a distinction between falsetto and and Modal/headvoice?

Or was it still just a ruse to make us look more intellegent? NO. It was to help get others to understand the difference so it is possible to break the habit of Falsetto and learn to stay connected throughout the range and have choices. What you call it is not important. The difference is important.

[Rosa]

That video above of going down from Falsetto and Head Voice made sense to me when I saw it, but not anymore.  Sorry.  

 

For example, that thing of Lip rolls, you go up and down, down and up...in Falsetto.

 

It might be true that it is not easy to change from Falsetto to Chest, or vice versa. But the same could be said of the opposite. So we could say it is not easy to change coordinations in the middle of a song. Felipe does it though. He changes them in whatever manner he wants.

[Rosa]

The first video is very cute.

The second is one I've seen you post many times but don't know why you like it that much or what you want to illustrate with it. 

Are you going to participate in the "foreign language" challenge?

In case it is not clear, my concept of Belting is very basic = with Energy. Regardless of notes. It will be whatever: Chest, Mix, Head, Falsetto. It can be Belting Chest, Belting Mix, Belting Head, Belting Falsetto. Probably there are more. I just don't know if that is the idea, but that's my idea from what I've seen people call Belting.