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Rosa

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31 minutes ago, Martin H said:

argument

No argument Martin just common sense. Stretching out the voice warming up getting blood flow to an area that is about to do a more strenuous act than speaking. Is like a sprinter stretching warming up his legs before he races. It's just common sense isn't it. Forget about Jesus Christ pose then and take a very challenging song you sing and do the same experiment roll out of bed and sing it and then warm up through the day. If I had to bet the warming up throughout the day will be a little better for most. Maybe not you your extra uber talented :) and I mean that maybe you are what we call an outlier an anomaly. That happens but I would say even you would benefit from a warm up as opposed to cold lazy morning voice

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Some say they don't speak the day before a performance.

Mick Jagger has discovered the benefits of training and warming up lately.

(Some comments from the site above).

 

Daniel, depending on how we speak and how we sing, singing doesn't have to be more strenuous than speaking.

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Well at your age you most likely can get away with not warming up, hell I used to do 3-4 shots minimal warm and no technique and get away with a decent performance 20 years ago not any more.

and dr. Steven Zeitel did that scoping of steven Tyler that proved the pliability getting better through the night. And mark baxter was there that's who told me. So :P

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I feel a physical difference before and after warming up. I'm a ballet dancer, and I know warming up is crucial. In my voice I can't access my mixed voice ( or whatever you wanna call it ) unless I've played around with my chest voice in the E4-G4 area in high intensity on different vowels for a few minutes. I theorize it's because of blood flow, stretching, and muscle activation.

I have a fold gap, which makes some air escape unwantedly, this lessens when I warm up as muscles become more active and do their work more efficiently; by being able to coordinate better and/or using their strength capacity to the maximum.
If after warming up ( warm ups are 5-10 minutes in my case ) my OOs on the E4-G4 area leak a tiny bit of air and sound a bit dull, then after warming up they sound brighter, louder and cleaner.

I can't do fullvoice in my high range if I haven't warmed up. The coordinations just fall apart. I feel its because the tensor muscles ( TA ) are not flexible and active enough to keep up with the air pressure needed to sing in a loud volume that high ( A4-E5 )

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6 hours ago, Xamedhi said:

 In my voice I can't access my mixed voice ( or whatever you wanna call it ) unless I've played around with my chest voice in the E4-G4 area in high intensity on different vowels for a few minutes. I theorize it's because of blood flow, stretching, and muscle activation.

I can't do fullvoice in my high range if I haven't warmed up. 

This is important. Maybe it is different depending on what style we are singing in? In my little experience trying to analyze all this, it seemed to me what takes longer to warm up is chest voice.

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All I can say is everyone should test this out.  Sing a challenging tune, the same tune with and without warming up.

RECORD both!

If there appears to be no discernable diffference, I'd be really surprised.

I know for me I can sense and feel a major difference in side my body....in so many ways and in so many places.

 

 

 

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Martin are you saying that you sing just as good when you roll out of bed as you do later in the day?  Knowing that you are Someone who studies voice pathologies etc. wouldn't you say through the day you hum and sing in falsetto, do little vocal tests etc? Singers on this forum are probably getting the impression you just get up and go from silence and sleep to belting it out cold turkey. But we know you are kind of a voice scientist and do things all day with it so you wouldn't need a "warm up" per se

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Yes, I was thinking the same. I think Martin is young and he keeps his voice ALWAYS warm. Not just that he exercises, but he uses his voice a lot. He can tell us if that is not the case.

 

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@Daniel & Rosa

I would say, that if I'm doing a show. I've rehearsed the "coordinations" for a long time. Hence, yes, I can most likely roll out of bed and sing my part. And that's basically also my point. 

I can also roll out of bed and type this...I don't need to warm up my fingers! ;)

But again, if you feel that some warm ups helps, by all means, do it.

Edit: I don't think I'm young by the way! ;)

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Believe it or not I just had a conversation today about this very thing with Dr Ingo Titze (a highly cited voice scientist, and singer). I asked him if vocal warm ups were necessary or not. His view is that the exercise literature shows that there is a tremendous benefit in warm ups for any muscle that needs to do strenuous activity - no matter where it is in the body. Studies have shown that warm ups help muscles, ligaments and other connective tissue by increasing blood circulation to the area, which increases peak performance and decrease chance of injury. Speech can be a warm up for singing, as long as there is no difference in the way you use your vocal muscles in speech to singing. If there is a discrepancy, which Dr Titze believes there is in 50% of people, then a warm up is a must. He acknowledges that every singer is different in what they need to do for a warm up, and how long they need to warm up for. This I have also observed with myself and my clients. Sometimes it's a few minutes into vocalises before their voice is ready to go and other times we have to work for 30-40 mins before there is any flexibility. Personally I only need 10 mins of my faves and I'm good to go. Dr Titze pointed out another other important consideration, this is related to how much the matrix of the vocal fold tissue (at the lamina propria level) has been temporarily compromised by previous use - from singing or speaking in the days before hand. The vocal fold tissue can take up to 72hrs to repair itself of normal wear and tear. The more injury the longer it may take to get the voice into the right place for singing. Research has demonstrated that wide range semi occluded vocal tract exercises in the form of the straw, lip trills, tongue trills, sirens, m/n or v's help the ligament and music to stretch and get ready for more articulated sounds and words. A 2 octave triad or arpeggio, or the 1.5 octave scale commonly used in SLS exercises is good for these. Then as the voice gets more limber shorter range scales and then melodies can be used.

So as I understand it from today's conversation: 1. Warm ups are necessary for singing to increase peak performance and prevent injury 2.  The length of a warm up will vary from singer to singer 3. The need for warm ups is affected by the current condition of the vocal fold tissue 4. Warming up means stretching the ligaments and muscles over a wide range.

Hope you found that as interesting as I did...

PS I too have read that effect of steaming is temporary, max effect 20 mins, but it's probably better than nothing. Ideally you need to maintain your hydration 24/7 and adjust for heat and humidity. I think there is a study that shows normal saline is preferable as the molecules are smaller and penetrate the vocal fold epithelial layers more effectively - and that nebulisers are also better as they break the particles down in to smaller sizes. 

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How about football players who do warm-up before every game or practice and still strain a hammy? Or a groin pull? These are guys in their twenties and thirties who have literally been playing football, even in pee wee league,making for past twenty years of experience plus professional experience and they still can get injured?

Also, maybe we are meaning different things by warm-up. To me, if a warm-up is taking thirty minutes or 45 minutes, it could be one is singing out of range. To me, a warm-up is to assure coordination and access to different parts of the voice, which includes a full sound blast now and then, just to make sure it is working.

If I ask and could receive honest answers, how many actually warm up just to sing a song that is the same range as where they speak? Yeah, I thought so. But sing something an octave to an octave and a half above, basically at the very end of your physical ability to make sound. The latter is like a football player running at top speed for 2 hours non-stop, which simply will not happen, ever. Humans are simply not built that way no matter how much religious faith a person might have otherwise.

Bubble-bursting by ron the redneck ws

thankyouverymuch

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I would say if your are on a forum for singing you are a "vocal nerd" so to speak. With that being said every vocal nerd I ever met even if they don't do a 30 min precise warm up. They are throughout the day making funny sounds vocal fry, singing in falsetto(edges of cords great warm up) a couple 5 tones scales, blowing lip bubbles , little vocal testers. So bingo bango there is your warm up. As far as studies go again they are using amateurs not vocal athletes that sing high and hard out if the gate

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/3849057/

That is all

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I've noticed my voice is stronger and brighter in the morning, about an hour after waking up (I get up at 4 am) than it is 10 pm that same day, about 18 hours later, after a full day of talking to other humans, singing now and then, cursing loudly about other builders (because so many have to prove they have the mental ability of amoeba). 

I like Tristan's point about warming to the type of music and singing that you will do. John Bush does that very thing thing, with workout recordings specfically designed to loosen up his yelling screamo thingy.

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On 3/24/2016 at 4:04 PM, Rosa said:

Mick Jagger has discovered the benefits of training and warming up lately.

Only took the man 50 years!  Little bit late. :D Just messing around, I'm a huge fan of Mick's voice.  

BTW. I personally feel warmups are invaluable. My voice is pretty much useless outside of singing in speaking range without at least 20 minutes, but I am rookie lol.  

Wouldn't mind having Martin's vocal folds, they seem to be pretty much defy all odds.  The man has no bridge, and he's not even warming up it's just like that right out the gate. Hahahah...

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10 hours ago, Danielformica said:

domingo was bulls%$ing you. he warms up just listen 

 

Yes, the link I quoted is not accurate. It is interesting because it contains what many famous singers have said, but it mixes what they say about rest, exercising and warming up. What I've heard Plácido Domingo say in some video is that he rests some days, but we can see him there exercising, and probably he warms up after resting for some days before a performance???

 

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