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Can I Develop These Notes?

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muffinhead

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Jon,

JLT is one of favorites.  Guys I know met him in this crappy little bar once, and he was so gracious and cool and actually invited my friends to hang out with him, and they talked a lot about singing.  JLT has taken a lot of lessons and stays up on his voice.

He's got a strong voice even today.  There's an awesome multi-part interview on him you'd enjoy on YT.  He's very similar to guys like Lou Gramm.

Now, as far as you looking at this as "I'm going to worry about my originals, and work within my range...that's not really a great way to look at it.

You should be looking at it as wanting to expand your range because this has an effect on all the notes in your range. And learn and cover some of these more difficult tunes.  

I promise you, you will benefit greatly even if you have your eye on all originals.

Again, you seem like a real nice guy, and I'm just trying to help or make you see things from another perspective you maybe cannot right now.

You have to challenge yourself, your voice and work it from all angles.

 

 

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48 minutes ago, VideoHere said:

Now, as far as you looking at this as "I'm going to worry about my originals, and work within my range...that's not really a great way to look at it.

 

you're reading way too much into my comments (and slightly putting words into my mouth). Did you not see where I admitted I could NOT hit the strong B4 that JLT was hitting? Its pretty obvious then that id LIKE to hit that note lol.

 

That being said, writing songs IS a skill also. If Lou Gramm never wrote songs, you would NEVER have heard of him. He didnt get famous doing covers

Im a musician, I make music

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Update #3: What I thought was head voice, I think, is actually reinforced falsetto. I noticed that my voice does flip into falsetto when I go up during sirens. However, I have 100% found my actual head voice. I managed to sing to C5, even D5 very briefly, when doing exercises. However, anything above A4 is still iffy for me. It definitely sounds more powerful than what I was doing before, however. I could tell it was head voice because I felt the resonance in my mouth and head, unlike the reinforced falsetto. And as for the pitches from around F#5-A5, I think they're something else, as they are damn near impossible to move around, and disconnect from my falsetto. So, I definitely have a lot of work on, not that I didn't think so before. 

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1 hour ago, JonJon said:

you're reading way too much into my comments (and slightly putting words into my mouth). Did you not see where I admitted I could NOT hit the strong B4 that JLT was hitting? Its pretty obvious then that id LIKE to hit that note lol.

 

That being said, writing songs IS a skill also. If Lou Gramm never wrote songs, you would NEVER have heard of him. He didnt get famous doing covers

Im a musician, I make music

Jon,

My apologies.  Just trying to help.

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15 minutes ago, VideoHere said:

Jon,

My apologies.  Just trying to help.

brother, no need for anyone to apologize. We all have our own goals and thought processes.

Part of my mindset is this.....Im 48. if im not writing now...then when?? I dont have 10 more years to "get ready" lol

By all means, critique my singing (just remember, im hardheaded lol)

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4 hours ago, JonJon said:

brother, no need for anyone to apologize. We all have our own goals and thought processes.

Part of my mindset is this.....Im 48. if im not writing now...then when?? I dont have 10 more years to "get ready" lol

By all means, critique my singing (just remember, im hardheaded lol)

Time doesn't mean anything. Tony Bennett is still singing.

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On 4/19/2016 at 2:43 PM, Danielformica said:

 I've never heard anyone pull chest to D5 are you positive it's chest or is it mixed voice ?

OK sorry to go back so far in this thread but if you wanna listen to this guy:

0:29 - 2:07 B4 at the end

4:09 - 4:20 C5

4:40 - 4:50 D5

5:06 - 5:18 E5

5:51 - 6:04 G5

6:30 - 6:45 A5

No idea what these guys are saying but I don't hear much of a register shift. Any thoughts?

1:24 - 1:28 B4

2:02 - 2:10 D5

2:24 - 2:31 E5 

3:03 - 3:11 F5

Not sure if he's pulling chest, but those notes are very clean and crystal clear, so that's what I think is most impressive.

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After more study, I was definitely pulling chest up to G#5. I can comfortably do it to E5 for a long time, but G#5 for only 5 to 10 minutes before I start getting worried about overdoing it. I've been working on bridging on G4 or A4 (or even earlier) lately.

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What is it then? I'm still familiarizing myself with some of this terminology. Before, I only knew chest, mixed, and head resonances in terminology, and belting as using the TA muscles pretty intensively. I had never heard the term "pulling chest" until I constantly heard it in connection with belting. It definitely felt like belting. I was definitely not in head voice, as I can sing that note in a solid twangy head voice all day. I would say it was mixed, but I normally don't feel like I'm belting in mixed voice.

To note, I won't sing up there anymore without it being in head voice. I was teaching a soprano how to belt up there, and hurt myself after about 15 minutes, then realized what note I was belting on. I can still do it, but just don't. I belt an E5 a lot still, but only when teaching. When performing, I try to bridge earlier, and belt no higher than a C5. 

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I'd have to hear it. 

Going high in your FULL voice, (not falsetto or reinforced falsetto) with strong TA engagement is very, very, challenging. It can feel like walking a tightrope.  You can hold on to more TA involvement but you still have to carve and thin to ascend..otherwise you will hit what feels like a brick wall and just lock or have to shout. You still have to get into your head resonance.

When you can bring the TA into your highest notes and get into your head voice under greater pressure, the head resonance takes on a tone completely indistinguishable from chest voice.

Those who teach or think that the head voice is the light, airy, voice has probably never trained to really blow up the head voice.

Gotta bring in Lou here for illustration puposes....Can you tell chest from head?  But he's working like hell down below.

 

 

 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, VideoHere said:

I'd have to hear it. 

Going high in your FULL voice, (not falsetto or reinforced falsetto) with strong TA engagement is very, very, challenging. It can feel like walking a tightrope.  You can hold on to more TA involvement but you still have to carve and thin to ascend..otherwise you will hit what feels like a brick wall and just lock or have to shout. You still have to get into your head resonance.

When you can bring the TA into your highest notes and get into your head voice under greater pressure, the head resonance takes on a tone completely indistinguishable from chest voice.

Those who teach or think that the head voice is the light, airy, voice has probably never trained to really blow up the head voice.

Gotta bring in Lou here for illustration puposes....Can you tell chest from head?  But he's working like hell down below.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

for Bob. We mentioned JLT in another thread as a guy who pulls and mixes the chest sound pretty high like his nice B4 in the Rainbow song "I Can't Let you Go"

 

Another singer just popped into my head and Im going to bet he is similar to Lou and JLT in that regard. I am guessing just by instinct without going and checking youtube first.

 

Huey Lewis??  Because im trying to think of him singing "light" and I cant do it

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Huey Lewis, yes

Here's a bunch of guys good with hanging on to TA other than the ones we know for sure like Bolton, Dio, and Walsh.

Daryl Hall

Mike Reno

Bobby Kimball

Eddie Money

Freddie Mercury 

Robert Plant

John Farnham

Paul Carrack

Robin Zander

Richard Page

Their voices if you listen to them really closely all use shades of uh and oo..all have a richness to their tone.

 

Motown guys like Levi Stubbs (which reminds me, haven't seen KillerKu lately...lol!!

 

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24 minutes ago, VideoHere said:

Daryl Hall

Robert Plant

Robin Zander

Their voices if you listen to them really closely all use shades of uh and oo..all have a richness to their tone.

 

 

 

3 of my faves there, though I havent "studied" them much since I started actively singing

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Zander now plays with 2 guys I know.

Hall is great.. we tend to like the same guys.

But this kind of no register singing is taxing and you have to work up to it, then (try) to maintain it.

Here's a good example of what I mean:

This is significantly more difficult to sing than the second one (below). In fact, to me I wouldn't even consider singing it this second way.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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23 hours ago, JonJon said:

oh, so im guaranteed to live that long?

Thanks God lol

No guarantees and what you said applies at any age. You could also be dead by age 57. It happens. So, write what you want to write, right now and sell it. I like your songs but you are not going to sell a lot in a forum like this. You need to go to cdbaby dot com. With finished product, of course.

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16 minutes ago, ronws said:

No guarantees and what you said applies at any age. You could also be dead by age 57. It happens. So, write what you want to write, right now and sell it. I like your songs but you are not going to sell a lot in a forum like this. You need to go to cdbaby dot com. With finished product, of course.

lol. not trying to SELL anything quite yet lol. But this forum is good for pissing one off enough to try harder

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Update #4: Turns out I really have no clue what is going on. Today, while practicing vocals, I decided to sing the higher notes in a different way, by raising the soft palate and creating a more open space in the back of the mouth. This helped immensely. I can sing A4 at will now, in songs, and it sounds powerful and good. I can't get up to C5 with this technique, which I think is really head voice (the other technique being mixed voice, perhaps), but I am sure that with work on my technique I can do it. 

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51 minutes ago, muffinhead said:

Update #4: Turns out I really have no clue what is going on. Today, while practicing vocals, I decided to sing the higher notes in a different way, by raising the soft palate and creating a more open space in the back of the mouth. This helped immensely. I can sing A4 at will now, in songs, and it sounds powerful and good. I can't get up to C5 with this technique, which I think is really head voice (the other technique being mixed voice, perhaps), but I am sure that with work on my technique I can do it. 

my head voice is really good to at least A4 and then I can stretch it to maybe C5 but not killer strong. My falsetto will go a bit higher

 

I myself am continuing to explore the different ways of making notes and the different sensations. Sometimes u just wanna open the throat all the way...especially if you are not used to doing so. Open it and find the limitations etc. But then also sometimes you want to keep more control of the note etc

 

The next step is probably starting to play with the different vowels. OO's and OU's in the back of the throat, EE's up front more in the hard palate and nasal areas with a big wide smile lol. Then the middle of the road ah's and aw's

 

I was working on some stuff today at work...coming up with phrases that combine these different vowels and then training then up and down thru the passagio and to the higher and lower limits etc etc.

"CANT you SEEEEE, what YOOOOOOUUUU are DOOOOOOing to MEEEEE, oooooohhhhhh" etc lol

 

my favorite thing to just blast wide open though is from "Slow Ride" by Foghat. The line "Slow down....go down...got to get your lovin' one mo' time". And then my super fave "HOLD ME, ROOOOLLLLLL ME" lol

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Update #5: I really, really do not know what's going on. I was messing around again today, and found a very light voice (not falsetto), that can go all the way up to A5, and can connect down into chest voice. This is not hard for me to do at all, in fact, it's pretty easy. Am I a freak of nature for being able to sing up this high? (and low, I can go down to E2 on a good day), in full voice, with only a month and a half of training?

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And one more thing: after doing some slightly obsessive research, I have come to the conclusion that I am quite possibly a leggero tenor. This fach seems to fit quite perfectly, as I can go pretty low, but also have this high range that goes beyond what standard tenors can do. The timbre of some examples I've listened to also seems to match what mine is like. I know that vocal classification is pretty controversial, but I, like so many people, like labels as they give me piece of mind and provide a certain type of framework in which I can look to develop my voice. 

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