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SINGING SUCCESS - TRICKS CUSTOMERS & CHEATS COMPETITORS

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Singingsuccess.com paid Google for advertising that rips off The Vocalist Studio's customers and product, by paying for a high ranking advertisement of "The Pillars of Singing" (no "four") , ... a forged name of the real product, and then redirected TVS web traffic to their web site. 

Pretty greedy & cowardly guys... Do you actually lack that much confidence in your own product and brand, that you feel the need to trick customers, by creating a forgery, for the purpose of stealing web traffic from your competitors?  Apparently so...

 

 

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That is sad that SS would do something like that. Sad and ugly in their desparation. Could be they feel they have an inferior product and need to run a "trot-line" in your waters. And how can we effectively debate someone who supports SS knowing that the people that the run the show for them are reprehensible and are thieves, almost? Some things I cannot set aside for the sake of argument. Now, I am ruined. Now, if someone writes "in SS we ... blah, blah" I won't be able to read anything but crappy thieve, loser, desparately trying to game the system instead of, I don't know, being good teaching of singing.

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They're probably getting desperate as the news of SS is not as effective as people think it is spreads around and so they are going after people who's courses have much more meat like Rob does and drives them away from guys like Rob to them.

Dishonesty like that only hurts you in the long run. If Brett Manning has to do crap like this then he must not be confident enough in his product.

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3 hours ago, The Future Vocalist said:

They're probably getting desperate as the news of SS is not as effective as people think it is spreads around and so they are going after people who's courses have much more meat like Rob

.. Precisely,

 

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   Marketing is one thing, but to use the Key word in anothers Product is another. I have found websites to articles before when searching google with the key terms Pillars and Singing but not a link to another Training program. At least not at the top of the page.

    You would think that some form of respect would prevent that.

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55 minutes ago, Robert Lunte said:

.. Precisely, namely... my web traffic. They are just trying to steal the results of my hard work!  Even worse, lying to my potential customers that sincerely wanted to learn about The Four Pillars of Singing, to do it.

Apart from the fact that the program and techniques inside have always been luke warm at best and everyone that knows anything about this business, knows that. It has always been about marketing 1st with those guys, never about making a better product 1st. Now apparently, they are taking their "marketing" expertise to new levels out of desperation, to include tactics that lack integrity. If the "owner" didn't know about this, he should be firing someone immediately. 

 

So important, right here. While marketing skills are fine, a worthy product is key, otherwise, empty words, might as well be one of those bots selling shoes and purses. So, yeah, upping the game in marketing does not mean the product got better, it means the marketing has shifted to whatever is maximum in generating click-through traffic.

I have not had anything to say negatively about SS or it's teaching principles, I have just preferred 4P without being pushy or condescending,just saying ...

Others may have had issues with or not satisfied with their own performance and improvement, and that is going to happen, in any business to a statistical degree. But it is shady to divert traffic knowing that using a few key words from another system will get some accidental traffic clicking through that will stay.

It would be like if 4P paid to have click on the search phrase of "singing successfully" where the search filter picks only "singing success" of that phrase and ignores the word "fully."

I have not gone through the SS program and I don't know if they use the word, metaphor, or simile of pillars in analogy or description. True, you cannot copyright just the word, "pillars," but just the same, it is shady to use a phrase analagous to a system that is copyrighted to generate accidental click through traffic.

So, legal action probably cannot happen but denigration of reputation can happen.

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I can imagine how upset you feel. Have you spoken with them? Sent a cease and desist? You're handling it with more tact than I might have. 

I found that course to be difficult to navigate from poor, or at least confusing organization. I was doing a lot of exercises with no idea why or how it fit into the bigger picture. And when I wanted to focus on a particular subject, I usually couldn't find it because it was so buried in seemingly unrelated content. Never the less, I trudged through it. And after I finally got most of the way through it, I threw it out because I couldn't stand it anymore. 

 

 

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I would imagine Robert has already considered legal remedies but you cannot require someone to cease and desist because they use a word in the same language. How many systems us the phrase breath support? What is a pillar? It is a vertical structure that can and often provides support to something else. The click through does not say 4 Pillars of singing, which is copyrighted. Just pillars of singing, so it skirts copyright protection.

If I wanted to use pillars in a concept, I would either need to be a certified TVS teacher or use it in such a way as to NOT confuse it with 4P. And I, having a large ego, would rather be known for my meaning, rather than being confused with another system.

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 intended trademark/servicemark deception. It's not as solid a legal argument as blatant use of the full mark, but still holds legal grounds for a lawsuit. 

Granted, I would, and I imagine Robert would too, try and talk to Manning about it and ask why.

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What is Legal and what is Ethical are two differnt things. I have seen the phrase 'One of the Pillars to good singing is..." before. I believe it may have been one of David Jones' articles. Still to use "Pillars of singing" as a tag item for a search is purely because of taking traffic from Robert. Clearly un Ethical.

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Maybe the problem has been resolved. I just made a search on Google with only Pillars and Singing. The "Four Pillars of Singing" and sites involved with it were the only things in the first results page.

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54 minutes ago, Draven Grey said:

Granted, I would, and I imagine Robert would too, try and talk to Manning about it and ask why, before pursuing legal action or warnings of such. 

I agree with Draven - "still holds legal grounds for a lawsuit".

BUT, I wouldn't contact Manning directly. In my humble opinion, correspondence from a lawyer would be much more effective.

Coach,

Contact your lawyer.

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10 minutes ago, MDEW said:

Maybe the problem has been resolved. I just made a search on Google with only Pillars and Singing. The "Four Pillars of Singing" and sites involved with it were the only things in the first results page.

I just did the same thing. My search showed TVS/Robert Lunte/The Four Pillars of Singing, etc. Nothing at ALL about Manning.....

 

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Oh, has it been resolved? If it has been taken down, then perhaps we can reconsider. Ill get around to checking it as soon as I can. I am teaching for about 10 straight hours today and tomorrow is my day off, so it may be a few days before I can get to that.

SS people can contact me directly and confirm for me that it is taken down if wanted to show some good faith...

 

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