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Thinning out on high notes problem

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SwedishRocker

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Hello

My band is covering this song right now. But the problem is that i cannot make my voice thin on the high notes for example during the bridge when Rob says Then and there.... He holds the note which goes up to a B4. He makes it sound so thin at the top. Is it mixed voice or head voice? Because when i try to sing a B4 i just yell the note. Should i sing it in head voice instead?

 

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Some basic advice for gigging with this, some truth:

Challenging section for most vocalists, even him.  It's not just the note, but the tonal quality you want up there.  Full voice.  Even he won't have that going on for him on every show, and he will also have a workaround.

Believe it or not, he is yelling the note as well, but he very skillfully selects a vowel or throat shape that keeps his voice from splatting or getting too wide.  This enables him to go up top.  This is what you hear as thinning.

"There" needs to morph more into singing "eh" but you cannot allow it to splatt which "eh" likes to do, so you need to actively keep the throat open and mouth more vertical and try to be calm. Notice he's not punching at the notes but allowing them to happen.  Watch his other live videos and notice what the does up top. Also notice when he instintively senses it's not happening and works around it. Oh, I did I mention air flow and support.?

Practice.  The voice needs to learn that whole transition.  And if you don't have the range for this tune, well you know what you have to do.

 

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If you add more cry you will just impose the larynx and make it a little harder and heavier to do. Just think the sound going up and back for this sound. and start the first not lighter not so engaged. That's for this particular I wouldn't suggest strengthening your voice like this

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5 minutes ago, Simon Öhlund said:

I am a baritone so the tonal quality might not be the same as Halford is a tenor. I shall try to add more cry into the sound.

No offence intended.....Are you being realistic?  Can you sing a B4?

Maybe you are (presently) incapable?  That's okay too.

 

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1 hour ago, Danielformica said:

Just think the sound going up and back for this sound. and start the first not lighter not so engaged. That's for this particular I wouldn't suggest strengthening your voice like this

it's truly amazing to me how effective this advice is Dan. Just merely "thinking" the note back and up often is the only thing I have to remember to do in order to cleanly place the pitch of a note that is challenging me. although, right now i'm healing some damage from a cough that trashes a good bit of m2 for me.

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Your samples on the review section do not show anything even close to being "too yelled". Its the exact opposite, its all held back/lacking energy. You may be doing a lot of effort for it but it just isnt translating into voice. You also were WAY bellow B4 on all of it (constantly being bellow pitch when it appears).

 

In resume, get the program and start training properly, and if you are really looking to sing this kind of stuff with a decent quality, lessons.

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15 minutes ago, Felipe Carvalho said:

Well, we told you already what, 20 times that you need to work on it and that it is NOT sounding good. But you are ignoring it.

 

So be it. Sure, it sounds awesome.

Thanks i shall keep singing high notes in my head voice instead of pulling chest. I sounds constipated when i sing high in my chest voice. I hope the show will be good.

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Simon, I've been following your threads for quite some time, and thought I would add my opinion. As many others have said, you need work. Plain and simple. Start with upper chest voice until you gain control of it. Then go into head voice. Don't work it ass-backwards, from C5 downward, because that will get you pretty much nowhere. Get something you can train with, be it scales or a program like Robert's. And get to work. You have the right timbre of voice for what you want to sing, but the technique isn't there right now. That's all I have to say. 

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27 minutes ago, Simon Öhlund said:

does my voice sound baritone? So i shall train my head voice more?

Forget any notion of voice type. For most anybody, it's bullshit. If you really care, someone on this forum once said that we are all untrained low tenors, or something along the lines of that. And yes, you want to train your head voice, but start low first. What's the highest note you can produce reliably that sounds good? And don't kid yourself, actually listen to what you can do. I'd be willing to bet it's around F4. With this in mind, practice below and around that note; don't try yelling out C5's because that does you no good. 

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11 minutes ago, Simon Öhlund said:

Did i sound good on the video? if i start practicing around the F4 with head voice i can move to C5 later?

No you didn't sound that great. If you start around F4, you will likely eventually work your way up to C5. How long that will take, I don't know. Perhaps ask someone more experienced than me on the forum how long it took him/her to develop a C5. One thing is for sure, though. You won't develop a good C5 without a lot of practice. That means potentially years of practice. 

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Quit worrying about the baritone thing. I know you don't want to take advice from anyone who is not a baritone and I am not a baritone. But I don't hear very much baritone sound in your voice, even when you are speaking. And the closet vid was illuminating. You have some crazy good tone. And I don't care if others have described Halford as a baritone. For he is not, either singing or speaking. And I have watched several interviews with him, including more than one appearance on "That Metal Show" with Eddie Trunk.

Just because you are shaky in the passagio area does not mean you are baritone. It means, if anything, you are an untrained tenor. But let go of that, too. I forbid you to spend any more time worrying about voice types. If you must, think of low-centered and high-centered voices. And your voice is not very low, to me, even when speaking. I have been around some men in my career who speak low and you are not near them in speaking pitch. In fact, on the high notes, you are really holding your self back, choking the sound. Let it go.

Concentrate on the note, forgot about what type of voice is singing it.

Again, I am not a baritone and you have stated before you are not interested in advice from those who are not baritones, either officially or otherwise. But if you want help, you need to meet people half-way. Playing the stubborn as a mule thing is probably not going to work as well for you in regards to receiving and/or rejecting advice.

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4 minutes ago, ronws said:

Quit worrying about the baritone thing. I know you don't want to take advice from anyone who is not a baritone and I am not a baritone. But I don't hear very much baritone sound in your voice, even when you are speaking. And the closet vid was illuminating. You have some crazy good tone. And I don't care if others have described Halford as a baritone. For he is not, either singing or speaking. And I have watched several interviews with him, including more than one appearance on "That Metal Show" with Eddie Trunk.

Just because you are shaky in the passagio area does not mean you are baritone. It means, if anything, you are an untrained tenor. But let go of that, too. I forbid you to spend any more time worrying about voice types. If you must, think of low-centered and high-centered voices. And your voice is not very low, to me, even when speaking. I have been around some men in my career who speak low and you are not near them in speaking pitch. In fact, on the high notes, you are really holding your self back, choking the sound. Let it go.

Concentrate on the note, forgot about what type of voice is singing it.

Again, I am not a baritone and you have stated before you are not interested in advice from those who are not baritones, either officially or otherwise. But if you want help, you need to meet people half-way. Playing the stubborn as a mule thing is probably not going to work as well for you in regards to receiving and/or rejecting advice.

Right there is the main thing    "Concentrate on the note, forgot about what type of voice is singing it."

That stuff that you are doing to make the note "Sound Great" in your opinion is what is holding you back. Sing the NOTE not the sound. At least at first. Get an idea of what PITCH is. Then start adding some of the sound back into it. You are squeezing too hard to let the note out.

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A lot of people here make it sound like singing B4 or C5, or above, is some crazy goal that will take years to achieve. That's only true in some cases. It truly depends on where you're currently at with, and how quickly you progress with, strength and control with your voice. It took me years to sing a B4 the wrong way. But once I learned one very simple distinction between placement for the note and how to isolate and add in M1, I could suddenly sing in an effortless full voice all the way up to B5 - and I mean very suddenly. However, I also had years of strength and coordination already built up that it only took a bit more understanding of what to do in order to sing that high.

I have students who have experienced similar things. Most add half an octave to their range as soon as they place the voice correctly, in the first lesson. Many are singing a C5 within weeks. However, some take months. And I've had one student who worked on it for a year, and couldn't do it. Granted, he was 72, and was just happy to develop a head voice and being able to sing a G4 now and then. He didn't believe he had the ability to build the strength and coordination beyond that, even though I really think he could have.

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9 hours ago, Draven Grey said:

A lot of people here make it sound like singing B4 or C5, or above, is some crazy goal that will take years to achieve. That's only true in some cases. It truly depends on where you're currently at with, and how quickly you progress with, strength and control with your voice. It took me years to sing a B4 the wrong way. But once I learned one very simple distinction between placement for the note and how to isolate and add in M1, I could suddenly sing in an effortless full voice all the way up to B5 - and I mean very suddenly. However, I also had years of strength and coordination already built up that it only took a bit more understanding of what to do in order to sing that high.

I have students who have experienced similar things. Most add half an octave to their range as soon as they place the voice correctly, in the first lesson. Many are singing a C5 within weeks. However, some take months. And I've had one student who worked on it for a year, and couldn't do it. Granted, he was 72, and was just happy to develop a head voice and being able to sing a G4 now and then. He didn't believe he had the ability to build the strength and coordination beyond that, even though I really think he could have.

Which means it is mental. You already had it in your voice. Changing how you thought about creating the note made the difference.

Singing is mental.

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1 hour ago, ronws said:

Which means it is mental. You already had it in your voice. Changing how you thought about creating the note made the difference.

Singing is mental.

Exactly! And I'm also not saying anyone can suddenly sing up that high. Like I said, "It truly depends on where you're currently at with, and how quickly you progress with, strength and control with your voice."

With most of my students, I focus a lot on strengthening their musculature and gaining much more coordination. Those that have been singing a while already have it, but have never understood how to use it correctly, and only need a few tweaks. Those that haven't already done much for strength and coordination take much longer.

My methodology used to be very similar to what Robert teaches, but much more basic. Now that I've gone through TFPOS, my methodology has become extremely fine-tuned and I'm able to pinpoint specific things very quickly with my students. The amount of time it takes to build solid strength and coordination for my students shortened greatly, whether a beginner or fine-tuning an intermediate singer's voice. If you want to know "my" methodology for singing, take Robert's course. He covers everything and more.

The only thing that I do differently is that I came up with my own "isolation exercise" for my students, which I talk about elsewhere on the forum. But even that is simply a coordination focused derivative of Robert's Contract & Release that isolates the placement of the head voice note from the amount of TA needed to make it into a full voice. That's what immediately opened me up to singing up to B4. Once my students demonstrate the strength and coordination to do so, I start them on those exercises too. IF you want a more classical reference to what I mean, I described the "isolation exercise" to a friend of mine who used to world tour in Opera, and his response was, "Oh, that's just Chiaroscuro."

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