Jump to content

Confusion when achieving fuller highs

Rate this topic


JohnnyL

Recommended Posts

I've been able to sing in a much fuller sounding voice in higher notes (let's say D4 and above?). I think that what I'm doing is more mix than belting. When a high note, let's say an A4, comes out full I'm sometimes surprised with the result while I sing. It's not a fun: "wow, I sound so full in high notes!" but more like "it came out very full compared to what I was expecting, am I off-key?". Usually - the answer is "no". However, when singing, this moment of doubt is problematic and might cause mistakes in the next notes.

 

Anyone ever encountered something like this? ideas on how to deal with it? I'm trying to sing quite a lot to get used to my high register but I didn't manage to enirely resolve this (crazy?) problem...

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The problem is your perception. The notes are likely full and on-key and you think there is a problem when there may be no problem. Which is mental. Singing is mental. And it doesn't matter whether you think it is belting or mixing. Like the saying goes in audio engineering (at least the sources I respect) if it sounds good, it is good. If what you are doing is repeatable and causes no harm or damage and you can do it for a 90 minute set, win-win.

I was going to say go and be a rock star. But you already are.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I watched a video of a top coach coaching someone on how to sing like "Paul Rodgers". The student was trying to sing the higher notes like Rodgers and was sounding thin. Distorted but thin. One of the first things this coach said was "Remember all the stuff we have been going over?" "Well forget about all that.".  "When Rodgers sings that particular song he just muscles in with a lot of air,support, open throat, low larynx"................... After a while of the student sounding thin the coach says of Rodgers "That's not how I would do it." "But you are having me teach you how RODGERS does it.". Finally the student asks how the coach would do it. Just sing it clean first. worry about how Rodgers does it after you are stronger. When the student sang the line  clean it sounded stronger and more like Rodgers than when He was Imitating Rodgers.

   A note that is under control even if a bit thin is more powerful sounding than belted note out of control.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The question wasn't about belting vs. mixed voice. I'm pretty sure I'm not belting as I never practiced belting, at least not knowingly... 

Not sure how a soundclip would help here... It's not the technique I'm worried about - it's more about perception or psychology. What happens is that I'm hitting a note in a voice that is much fuller than I expect it to be (it doesn't have to be full on an absolute scale, just fuller than I expected) and then hesitate singing the next line... 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It would be necessary to get inside your head to be sure, but its not uncommon to build reference of pitch based on sensations, so when you change what you are doing and the sensations change, it may give an idea of being pitchy somehow.

Record yourself to make sure pitch is correct and that the change you are doing is achieving the result you intend, and then just get used to the new sensations.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Felipe Carvalho said:

It would be necessary to get inside your head to be sure, but its not uncommon to build reference of pitch based on sensations, so when you change what you are doing and the sensations change, it may give an idea of being pitchy somehow.

You've just defined my problem - and defined it really well. I get a sensation that is completely different than what I expect to feel when I hit a certain high note.

I hit an A4, it sounds like an A4 but the sensation is much lower. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

   The voice has many frequencies/overtones and undertones. Formants. Finding a different spot that resonates can and will cause different sensations and sound characteristics.

    The Shape of the vocal tract will change which part of the spectrum gets amplified. It is possible that you finally found the space needed to resonate a lower formant.

      Part of the adjusting of vowels is to help find the proper throat space for a note to resonate in.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, JohnnyL said:

You've just defined my problem - and defined it really well. I get a sensation that is completely different than what I expect to feel when I hit a certain high note.

I hit an A4, it sounds like an A4 but the sensation is much lower. 

I think I understand what you mean, I would say its not a "problem" though, a lot of times we don't get to hear what we are doing so clear (you are used to live settings so you know this), and the sensation is all that we have, so in my opinion its a very useful skill. You will just have to build some "sensation sets", which is what Dan mentioned there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, JohnnyL said:

You've just defined my problem - and defined it really well. I get a sensation that is completely different than what I expect to feel when I hit a certain high note.

I hit an A4, it sounds like an A4 but the sensation is much lower. 

So, it was a new sensation for you and your perception of that was different than what you are used to. So, it is mental.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrator
10 hours ago, JohnnyL said:

I've been able to sing in a much fuller sounding voice in higher notes (let's say D4 and above?). I think that what I'm doing is more mix than belting. When a high note, let's say an A4, comes out full I'm sometimes surprised with the result while I sing. It's not a fun: "wow, I sound so full in high notes!" but more like "it came out very full compared to what I was expecting, am I off-key?". Usually - the answer is "no". However, when singing, this moment of doubt is problematic and might cause mistakes in the next notes.

 

Anyone ever encountered something like this? ideas on how to deal with it? I'm trying to sing quite a lot to get used to my high register but I didn't manage to enirely resolve this (crazy?) problem...

 

Interesting post.

My experience has shown me that without a doubt, as singers begin to make notes above the bridge sound more and more chesty, there often is a loss of orientation on what frequency range you are in. In the words, ... not sounding as high as you actually are. 

This is likely due to the fact that the formant tuning is improving. That would imply, more warmth and darker harmonics in the formant tuning. The result of more warm and darker partials being amplified in a favorably, powerful  head voice formant, tricks the mind into thinking you are singing at a lower frequency then you actually are.

While this is a bit surprising to discover and fun, it also validates that your head voice development is greatly improving.. or, you had a good moment.

That is the audible illusion that is similar to what you are describing that I know exists. But this phenomenon does not result in singers beginning to sing bad or getting "tripped up" because of it. Therefore, I am not sure if this is the same thing your referring to or not. But that is 10 cents worth.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrator
6 hours ago, Danielformica said:

In short you should be practicing and know exactly where you are in your voice chest, mix, belt , etc. don't just throw your voice out there not knowing. I have a saying "how can you get to where you wanna go if you don't know where you are"?

Great Coach, Real Pro.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrator
5 hours ago, Danielformica said:

No I'm not talking about m1 and m2. That would be very easy to know. I'm talking about different acoustical registers.

Kinda what Im hitting at. Its in the acoustics. Dan's point, not being oriented and knowing where you are, perhaps because, the new sound is still new to you. Get used to it, it sounds like it is likely a favorable result.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quote

Thanks. So, any suggested exercises one should do to get more orientated? or should I just give it sometime and keep practicing as usual?

If what you're doing is right or at least in a good direction then you just need to get used to the new sensations and yes that will likely take some time. However it's hard to know for sure what you're doing without a soundclip...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/13/2016 at 9:55 AM, JohnnyL said:

I've been able to sing in a much fuller sounding voice in higher notes (let's say D4 and above?). I think that what I'm doing is more mix than belting. When a high note, let's say an A4, comes out full I'm sometimes surprised with the result while I sing. It's not a fun: "wow, I sound so full in high notes!" but more like "it came out very full compared to what I was expecting, am I off-key?". Usually - the answer is "no". However, when singing, this moment of doubt is problematic and might cause mistakes in the next notes.

 

Anyone ever encountered something like this? ideas on how to deal with it? I'm trying to sing quite a lot to get used to my high register but I didn't manage to enirely resolve this (crazy?) problem...

 

Johnny, when I sing with a lower laryngeal position or I'm going for a darker, bolder sound color, maybe a Levi Stubbs Motown sound or a Steve Winwood color , I have to be vigilant that I don't go too dark, and knock out the squillo side because this can make you sound a little flat.

An A4 sung bold and warmer, is going to sound slightly different than a crisp, bright, twangy A4.  With Winwood's voice you can hear what I'm referring to.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...