Ren

Help with bass songs and my coach, please.

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 TLDR: Long story short... what songs would you suggest for a bass which, preferably, doesn't go above E4? (I'm talking about the songs though, I go above E4. I can go up to F#4, G4 sometimes, but I want some rest and actually sing really proficiently in the lessons, not upper belt all the damn time where I strain and push a little cause of the soft warm ups she teaches which doesn't loosen up my voice :/.

Am I wrong??? is the teacher right??? I'm a bass and shouldn't be singing in a girl's key???

 

 

What do you think about this??

So I took private lessons before with a teacher for a couple months, have stopped taking them for a month or so now, and now I found a new teacher. It's a group lesson with my relatives and some others. I'm the only guy in there. So anyways, she makes me sing in a "guy's key", and whenever I sing in a girl's key, she says it's "not my key" and doesn't want me singing in it. And also, I told her that I can't hit that note, this (guy's) key is too high for me. And she insists that I can. Like no, I've went over the range in that SONG, and my range with my old coach, and I go over my range every single day when I practice. It's either IN my range, or NOT. She picks songs for me without even knowing my own range or that song's. Not only that, but the warm ups we do aren't even for belting. So while the girls sing in their lovely mid range, I UPPER BELT my butt through the song without proper warm up, while the original singer, who sounds either a baritone or tenor, seems to be having a great time.

I once sang a girl's song... okay... with some really nice C5 and D5, and C#5 and Eb5 belts. But I sang it an octave lower, and she told me to sing a guy's song next time. What does she think a C#4 and Eb4 is for me? it makes no sense. C#4 is already a high note for me, (my old coach told me about the passagio, I checked mine out and it's around C4, sometimes a note higher) and she doesn't realize that and doesn't want me singing in a girl's key. 

Fyi, the girls learning are untrained.

Vocalizing, the girls start switching to head voice on around C5, I switch to head voice on around C4. Going down? They can barely sing an F3, my lower register is a little better, and vocalized down to D2, and a pushed C2 (I don't train my lower register much). So overall, those FEMALES are pretty much inside my range, y'know what I'm saying? D2-F#4 vs F3-C5, except it's an octave lower, their voices are pretty untrained so their range is much smaller. But if they were more trained, theirs will be similar to mine but an octave higher??? So I'm STILL not seeing why I shouldn't be singing in a girl's key. Passagio is similar and so is lower register, only an octave lower.

Another note: There was this girl song that I sang along with, and they told me that it was too low for me. BUT THEN, I SAID, IT'S ALSO LOW FOR THIS GIRL, AND THEY (teacher, and aunt who was taking them with me) SAID BACK THAT IT'S ACTUALLY HIGH FOR HER??? I CAME HOME AND CHECKED WITH A PIANO AND IT WAS AN F3. Tf??? And I know who the singer is, she's a flippin soprano, and they're telling me the 3rd octave is high for her? along with C#5 and Eb5 belts? crazy. Maybe I should've let them try that low note :/. I am upset. I think I'll end the ranting here :/. It may unpleasing to see someone ranting

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Oh my God. I got it. I found a way to sing less higher songs o.o. Still feel free to leave any bass songs if you have any

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That was a lot of rambling and a bit hard to follow! Haha! If I understoood you correctly, you need to be training to bridge and connect the voice. "A guy's key" is a ridiculous term. There are plenty of guys who can comfortably sing up to a C5. Plenty of natural Baritones who can sing that high as well. I know plenty of guys who can comfotably sing in a Soprano range, higher than most of my female students.

My personal lowest and truly stable note is a C#2, although I'm more comfortable actually singing words on an E2. Over time I raised my bridge from C#4 to a solid E4, but would still almost yell up at a B4 or C5. After I learned through solid training how to control the musculature better, I can now very comfortably sing up to an A#5, and on a good day, C6. I can sing higher than almost all of my female students, and lower than most of my male students. I also have one bass student who can sing an A1, bridges at C4, and I've been able to get him comfortably belting up to a G4 with very little practice being put into it. I can only imagine what he would be able to do if he put in the time and effort.

Are you singing classical or contemporary? The techniques can be pretty different.

For bridging and connecting the voice, I usually start my students with a basic understanding of bridging and mixed resonance, seen in the video below. After they get comfortable bridging into head voice I put more emphasis onindependent control of slowly turning on their chest voice muscles while in head voice, as well as connecting their chest voice across the bridge and above. I do exercises with them on this the whole time, but until they learn to comfortable bridge into head voice without a break, I put most of the emphasis on bridging. 

To note, you're not going to learn a lot from a quick YouTube video. You really need to be training with someone who knows how to get you doing this.

 

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Yeah, haha, sorry about that! I wasn't in a good mood when I wrote this. But yeah, I have trouble bridging sometimes, I know singing nasally helps with it, and no one has worked on that before with me, so thanks for the vid! And I sing contemporary

So anyways, the thing with this new coach, is that she doesn't want me singing girl songs because she thinks it's too low for me. Which makes no sense, since my voice is supposed to sing that low. For example, the girl song that I would choose would have Eb5 belts and an F3 low note, and I sing it an octave lower, Eb4 and F2, and she says that it's too low for me and apparently high for the girl. F2 is definitely NOT "too low" for me (I could even go down to E2 on my first days of singing), and F3 is definitely NOT high for a girl. Same thing with the high notes, Eb4 is definitely not a low note for me (I don't think she knows much about notes). She doesn't realize that, and so she doesn't want me singing them, and picks guy songs for me which is sometimes not in my range and not even in my key. I was just singing a Tori Kelly song earlier, and I was following along just fine, where she switches to head voice on Eb5 and bridges to G4 in chest, I switch to head voice on Eb4 and bridge to G3. That's why I like singing girl's songs, it seems like our break and lower range is near the same, but I'm just an octave lower, and that's kinda why I think I'm allowed to sing in a girl's key. Right? Girls sing C5 in head voice, I sing C4, girls sing D3, I sing D2.

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To be honest, I read your post several times and couldn't follow what you were saying.

There is no "key" for your voice, no "girl's key", and no "guy's key". There's simply voice range, and that can vary for everyone. With training, you can learn to connect your head voice to your chest voice, making most, if not all, of your head voice indistinguishable from your chest voice sound color. You can also extend your range to insane pitches over time. I've heard voices into the 7th or 8th octaves, male and female. Granted, it's difficult to distinguish words past G5. I also never saw a need to train over a C6, and only trained that high so I could help my students who sing more naturlaly in that range. Lower range is harder to expand because of your particular anatomy. Your vocal cords can only get so loose before you can't stabilize them into a note anymore.

Regardless of all this information, you can train to bridge and connect your voice and be able to effectively belt without effort however high you can sing in light-mass head voice. Perhaps your teacher wants you getting more comfortable with teachnique before you expand your voice. Maybe she wants to slowly expand into the ranges you might currently be straining on or have bad teachnique on. I don't know your voice or your teacher, so it's hard to say. If you have doubts, ask her for clarification, post in the review section of this forum, or look for further training (especially for bridging and connecting the voice, like in The Four Pillars of Singing). Ask you teacher about learning to bridge and connect your voice.

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2 hours ago, Draven Grey said:

I've heard voices into the 7th or 8th octaves, male and female.

Like who?

 

Ren.

how many people are there is the class

Dose your teacher have qualifications; has your teacher demonstrated the ability to sing well?

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3 hours ago, Draven Grey said:

To be honest, I read your post several times and couldn't follow what you were saying.

There is no "key" for your voice, no "girl's key", and no "guy's key". There's simply voice range, and that can vary for everyone. With training, you can learn to connect your head voice to your chest voice, making most, if not all, of your head voice indistinguishable from your chest voice sound color. You can also extend your range to insane pitches over time. I've heard voices into the 7th or 8th octaves, male and female. Granted, it's difficult to distinguish words past G5. I also never saw a need to train over a C6, and only trained that high so I could help my students who sing more naturlaly in that range. Lower range is harder to expand because of your particular anatomy. Your vocal cords can only get so loose before you can't stabilize them into a note anymore.

Regardless of all this information, you can train to bridge and connect your voice and be able to effectively belt without effort however high you can sing in light-mass head voice. Perhaps your teacher wants you getting more comfortable with teachnique before you expand your voice. Maybe she wants to slowly expand into the ranges you might currently be straining on or have bad teachnique on. I don't know your voice or your teacher, so it's hard to say. If you have doubts, ask her for clarification, post in the review section of this forum, or look for further training (especially for bridging and connecting the voice, like in The Four Pillars of Singing). Ask you teacher about learning to bridge and connect your voice.

Thanks for trying to understand it anyways.

But yeah, that's my problem with her, I can't sing in my proper key. She gives me songs sung by a tenor, like why. Songs that have F#4's and above that are sung softly in chest voice, when at that range is my limit. She doesn't even know my range. And I don't think she even knows the notes in the songs she gives me, but expects me to sings them. That's so upsetting. And when I say I can't hit it cause I'm a bass, she literally says back, some bass can sing in tenor range. That's where the problem is, she doesn't expect me to sing in D2-F4 area, she expects me to sing higher, and songs that are sung very softly in chest. When I even sang an F2 in a song, cause I was singing in a girl's key, she says that it's too LOW, and to bring the key up. That's where my voice naturally lies, the heck? So the tenor songs that she gives me, the tenor singing can sing a B2, and I can't sing F2? She needs to actually check out my range and realize that my voice lies naturally lower than most.

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She has said before that my voice sounds full. But I lose my ease and resonance sometimes when I sing there, cause the warmups and exercises we do are mainly breathing and support exercises, and really soft exercises. And then afterwards I go belting at the ends of my range. I'm planning on warming up before I sing there from now on

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2 hours ago, 2 cats in a dust bin said:

Like who?

 

Ren.

how many people are there is the class

Dose your teacher have qualifications; has your teacher demonstrated the ability to sing well?

Not a lot, like 6. Yeah she does have qualifications, and she can sing with resonance. I don't think she knows much about notes though that's why she's giving me songs that aren't in my range, she doesn't seem to know how to play piano very well... and she said when transposing from a female's key, I should transpose a few notes up, and from a male's key I'm supposed to transpose 1 or two notes down. I actually think that's wrong

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I should probably add too, I'm still young so my voice sounds lighter than those singers she makes me sing along with, but my range is with a bass'. That might be why she's confusing me with being able to sing high. Oops

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Learning to sing well is not about singing songs in a lesion because it should all be about learning the correct tecniques required to sing those songs first!

Having 6 of you with different voices all singing the same song makes me wonder really

I think you need 1to1 lessons with someone with the same vocal range as your self

You say yes she is qualified and yes she can sing well but I still feel you are wasting your time and money with her and need to find something better for your voice

 

Where in the world and how much is all this costing?

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Hey Ren,

If you don't want to sing high notes, don't!  If you want your high notes to have a full voice density, you gotta train.

Having said that, if you want Bass lead vocals for a practice song, try any number of songs by:

Crash Test Dummies (my fav)

Level 42 (any song w/ Mark King singing lead)

Johnny Cash

Double (The Captain Of Her Heart or Rangoon Moon)

Barry White

War (low rider)

Neil Diamond

Frank Sinatra

Lou Rawls

who have i forgotten?  I'm certain there's more . . . . . .

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6 hours ago, 2 cats in a dust bin said:

There is only one artist on that list I recognize and I am a bit puzzled why you think Neil Diamond is a bass :39:

i dont Dos Gatos yet,   :39:   Diamond has a good selection of tunes that he sings fairly low. A bass singer should be comfortable on some of his songs. 

I guess I could be wrong about this  . . . . . no, i changed my mind, i'm not wrong. . . . . no wait . . .maybe . . . no . . . .  yeah . . . I'm right.  :4:

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Moderators, would somebody please put a proper title on this? I would but I'm driving at the moment.

... ren, please put a shorter more to the point title on it. It's for a title. So please put a title on it not a sentence.

sorry to sound anal, but it just looks crappy that way. Let's make these posts look nice guys.

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