Baritone with tenor sound

[AzelD]

Hello ladies and gentlemen, I'm new in this page/forum and I mainly joined because I have one big question I would like to ask you all. How is It called when a baritone has a tenor sound? Or, when a tenor is a normal tenor but just with the exception of the fact that, for some reason he owns a baritone natural range. I know you will probably come up with techniques, different ways to manipulate voice in recordings and stuff, I know, but I'm talking about a genuine tenor sound no matter which tricks or techniques are used. I think there's a famous singer who has this weird thing, Dustin Bates I think is his name? And there's another one who has the same "thing" in his voice but upside-down: Adam Gontier.

[Felipe Carvalho]

Not sure I understand exactly what the question is, I am presuming it's about someone having a lighter voice and performing with heavy sounds, or the other way around, but I don't get the idea if you don't want to talk about the technique, is it just about how to call it?

Why not calling them by their names as you just did, it's very specific and we can easily find them to hear what they are doing.

[AzelD]

17 hours ago, Felipe Carvalho said:

Not sure I understand exactly what the question is, I am presuming it's about someone having a lighter voice and performing with heavy sounds, or the other way around, but I don't get the idea if you don't want to talk about the technique, is it just about how to call it?

Why not calling them by their names as you just did, it's very specific and we can easily find them to hear what they are doing.

What I meant, is a baritone with a genuine and true tenor sound that there's no way he can get rid of It.

[MDEW]

This is from the Wiki page "The tenor voice type is generally divided into the leggero tenor, lyric tenor, spinto tenor, dramatic tenor, heldentenor, and tenor buffo or spieltenor."

I would imagine that Baritones would have a similar classification.

The above list goes from lightest sound to heaviest sound. For most music, as long as you can sing the notes and sound good(which varies with opinions) it does not matter whether you are a tenor or Baritone.

With Opera and Musical Theater you may be cast based on your singing sound. That is because the different types of voices are stereo typed for different roles and certain songs are arranged for different voice characters.

The classification is based on the Singing voice not the Speaking voice. So if you do SOUND like a tenor when you sing ...you are a tenor. But, if you have not had formal training you still do not know what you are capable of or where your voice type would be.

Our speaking voices are sometimes a product of our environment. Different qualities of the voice are do to using one set of factors over another. Some people use a quiet thin sounding voice when speaking and some use a bold aggressive, authoritative voice. These sounds are made with different muscular coordinations within the voice box and throat. You can even have a Thin but loud voice and a Heavy but quiet voice. It is still do to different muscular coordinations of the voice box and throat .

These same things can effect our singing voice. You can be bold and authoritative in your speaking voice and use a quiet thin coordination with your singing voice. And vice versa, A thin speaking voice and a Bold deeper sounding singing voice.

And YES, some people will have a deep voice no matter what and some will have a small voice no matter what but most of us have average musculature....meaning most of us can unlock all with the proper training depending on what you want to do with it and how you train for it.

[AzelD]

 

4 hours ago, MDEW said:

This is from the Wiki page "The tenor voice type is generally divided into the leggero tenor, lyric tenor, spinto tenor, dramatic tenor, heldentenor, and tenor buffo or spieltenor."

I would imagine that Baritones would have a similar classification.

The above list goes from lightest sound to heaviest sound. For most music, as long as you can sing the notes and sound good(which varies with opinions) it does not matter whether you are a tenor or Baritone.

With Opera and Musical Theater you may be cast based on your singing sound. That is because the different types of voices are stereo typed for different roles and certain songs are arranged for different voice characters.

The classification is based on the Singing voice not the Speaking voice. So if you do SOUND like a tenor when you sing ...you are a tenor. But, if you have not had formal training you still do not know what you are capable of or where your voice type would be.

Our speaking voices are sometimes a product of our environment. Different qualities of the voice are do to using one set of factors over another. Some people use a quiet thin sounding voice when speaking and some use a bold aggressive, authoritative voice. These sounds are made with different muscular coordinations within the voice box and throat. You can even have a Thin but loud voice and a Heavy but quiet voice. It is still do to different muscular coordinations of the voice box and throat .

These same things can effect our singing voice. You can be bold and authoritative in your speaking voice and use a quiet thin coordination with your singing voice. And vice versa, A thin speaking voice and a Bold deeper sounding singing voice.

And YES, some people will have a deep voice no matter what and some will have a small voice no matter what but most of us have average musculature....meaning most of us can unlock all with the proper training depending on what you want to do with it and how you train for it.

Thank you for your time, but I still have a doubt with what you said. If I sound like a tenor no matter what, that probably means I'm a tenor. But, if my natural vocal range (I think It's called tessitura) perfectly fits within the baritone classification, what does that mean? Even after proper training.

[MDEW]

2 hours ago, AzelD said:

 

Thank you for your time, but I still have a doubt with what you said. If I sound like a tenor no matter what, that probably means I'm a tenor. But, if my natural vocal range (I think It's called tessitura) perfectly fits within the baritone classification, what does that mean? Even after proper training.

If you are singing in the baritone range but sounding like a tenor, you are an untrained tenor. With training and singing like an opera singer does you may find that your singing voice is way deeper sounding than you think. In that case you may be a high baritone. But you will not know until proper training.

[sideshow]

On 8/15/2019 at 12:22 PM, Felipe Carvalho said:

 I am presuming it's about someone having a lighter voice and performing with heavy sounds,

 

On 8/16/2019 at 7:01 AM, MDEW said:

The above list goes from lightest sound to heaviest sound.

Please could you two clear something up for me? When you say light and heavy do you mean quiet and loud volumes to the voice or do you mean a bright dark resonance tone to the voice?
Thanks

[MDEW]

2 hours ago, sideshow said:

 

Please could you two clear something up for me? When you say light and heavy do you mean quiet and loud volumes to the voice or do you mean a bright dark resonance tone to the voice?
Thanks

I am meaning Light as in thin(but crisp near falsetto but ringy) and heavy as in full and robust. More about timbre than loudness.

[Felipe Carvalho]

9 hours ago, sideshow said:

 

Please could you two clear something up for me? When you say light and heavy do you mean quiet and loud volumes to the voice or do you mean a bright dark resonance tone to the voice?
Thanks

The difference I am talking about, on the extremes, would be from a little girl voice to say... Christopher Lee. The physical change.

Thing is, when you are not dealing with extremes such as this example, these differences become much less significant, the difference between tenor and baritone is almost entirely a matter of technique for example.

[sideshow]

I read somewhere before that opera voice clarification is done on a dark to light tone meaning where the resonance is placed. But looks like you to are referring to power

[MDEW]

34 minutes ago, sideshow said:

I read somewhere before that opera voice clarification is done on a dark to light tone meaning where the resonance is placed. But looks like you to are referring to power

We are all three referring to a dark to light tone or large to small or thick to thin.  The resonance and power may be perceptions but not reality. Like the bark of a dog to the song of a bird. The bird song may actually carry farther and be louder than the bark of a dog even though the bark sounds more powerful.

[sideshow]

Which voice type do you think is best then?

[MDEW]

That depends on what type of songs you are singing and how your voice responds to training. I hate to be so vague but that is all you can do, Be vague that is. There are things to learn that will give you deeper sounds or higher sounds or more piercing sounds or silky, smooth, vibrant.....These depend on how you use what you have learned.

[sideshow]

So would you say that any of these voice types could not be described as unpleasant?

[MDEW]

3 minutes ago, sideshow said:

So would you say that any of these voice types could not be described as unpleasant?

Any of them could be described as pleasant also. It depends where and how they are used.

[sideshow]

So you are saying there is no such thing as an unpleasant voice in genaral then, it just may be unpleasant to one area of song, visor versor. Like an acoustic vs an electric guitar

[MDEW]

3 minutes ago, sideshow said:

So you are saying there is no such thing as an unpleasant voice in genaral then, it just may be unpleasant to one area of song, visor versor. Like an acoustic vs an electric guitar

Exactly. One voice type may not work for a particular genre(style of music) but be perfect for another. Or maybe needs a certain focus or different style within a genre.

   What type of music do you listen to. Maybe I could give examples of singers you are familiar with.

With guitars as example. Gibsons with Humbucker pickups usually fit better in Rock music They tend to have a deep full smooth tone and Fender Telecasters with single coil pickups usually fit better with country music. They tend to have a brighter chirpy twangy sound to them.

[sideshow]

So you think its a myth then that people should pack signing in because they have an unpleasant tone

Regarding the bit you mentioned about guitars and rock vs county. I was thinking this myself a while ago that darker tones to the voice suited heavy metal and a bright nasal tone suited country and folk

[MDEW]

2 hours ago, sideshow said:

So you think its a myth then that people should pack signing in because they have an unpleasant tone

Absolutely. Tone can be changed. Most people have several different tones that they use in different circumstances. If you get mad and have to tell someone to go F off you would usually use a gruff deep stern voice. If talking to a small child or baby you would usually use a soft tender small voice. If you are out with friends and laughing a lot and try to speak you have a high pitched voice. On and on, These tones can be made on purpose and used when you sing. Most of the time when someone "Tries" to sing and are a little bashful they tend to not use enough air and sing soft and light. They would end up with a week sounding thin voice. If you use the voice you use when you are angry or confident you would have a bigger sounding voice. Some people will try too hard and use too deep of a voice and over use it. Of course there is more to it and training is necessary but the point is that you can and will change the tone of your voice when you actually train to sing.

Almost every emotion has its own characteristic tone to it. Use these different tones and play around with them. 

Our regular voices are usually shaped by our environment. How we interact with people and our personalities and accents. Singers shape the sound on purpose. It is not that "i sound like this and this all I will ever sound like". You may hear the phrase "you do not sing like you speak" well you don not. You make sound on purpose for a reason. You use more breath pressure and you would normally sing Louder than you would speak.

[sideshow]

7 minutes ago, MDEW said:

 "i sound like this and this all I will ever sound like".

OK so the person in question that said he could sing all the notes phrases and all the other stuff but said he had a really horrible voice and is now only a backing vocalist in a band was simply wrong! Well to be honest I think he was kind of pointing the finger at me that my voice is so unpleasant to listen to and hence can never be corrected in any way so that is why (I raised the point) I need to stop!

[MDEW]

One of the things that singers should do is record themselves and then listen to the recording as if they were listening to someone else. If you do not like the sound or if you hear things that you feel need to change....rerecord the song with those changes in mind. Repeat the process. Work on the song until you get things the way you want them.

It takes a while and takes practice. Even those that you think never had to work on their voice Did work on their voice to sound better.

Another thing to remember is that music, singing and what sounds good is a matter of taste and opinion. Someone may have a great sounding voice and some people will still not like it and vice versa someone may have voice that does not sound that good and people still like it. 

 What type of songs do you like to sing?

[Felipe Carvalho]

20 hours ago, sideshow said:

I read somewhere before that opera voice clarification is done on a dark to light tone meaning where the resonance is placed. But looks like you to are referring to power

Not really, I mean a real little girl, and the real Christopher Lee. Not someone trying to impersonate these. There is a physical difference between these subjects.

And I am also saying that such physical differences are much smaller when you compare a Baritone to a Tenor voice, the difference is almost entirely on what the singers do.

[sideshow]

14 hours ago, MDEW said:

 What type of songs do you like to sing?

I'm currently working on "new radicals get what you give" at the moment (its quite hard!)

[MDEW]

8 hours ago, sideshow said:

I'm currently working on "new radicals get what you give" at the moment (its quite hard!)

Well, No wonder you are having problems. Regardless of what you have been told, all male voices have trouble between the notes C4 and A4 until there has been some kind of training, even if that training is just singing from the time you were born. Through those years you were building some kind of foundation.

Trouble notes are usually between E4 and G4. This song is right in the Passage zone where a change has to occur in the way you are singing. This level of control takes time and practice.

[sideshow]

2 hours ago, MDEW said:

Well, No wonder you are having problems. Regardless of what you have been told, all male voices have trouble between the notes C4 and A4 until there has been some kind of training, even if that training is just singing from the time you were born. Through those years you were building some kind of foundation.

Trouble notes are usually between E4 and G4. This song is right in the Passage zone where a change has to occur in the way you are singing. This level of control takes time and practice.

I did not think I was having any problems substituting those notes myself. The comments made about my signing was I have an unpleasant voice (mentioned above) and also that I am tone deaf as well