D.Starr Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 I'm having trouble extending my range and I've read thread after thread of people talking about extending the range. I'm currently exploring curbing and finding some ups and downs. But I also keep going back and checking vocal range classifications such as Bass, Baritone, Sopranos, Tenors etc. If you fall into one category i there a way to extend? I feel like I'm a Baritone but I want the benefits of a tenor. I can sing about 2 notes below C3 and up to middle C4 in chest voice. I can get up to about E4 (at times) in chest. After that is when I hit my break, I hear musicians hitting higher notes in a chesty tone, which I guess is curbing, but when I attempt it splats or I force myself into Head voice. I'm currently going back and forth between Brett Manning's Master Mix and Singing for the stars and finding some advancements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gno Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 D.Starr - for sure you can extend your range. Anyone can - you just have to learn the "tricks" - areas in your vocal tract / mouth / etc. to place the resonance as you move through different registers. And learn how to lighted your registration when going up. It is natural to retain those thick folds as you go up. With thick folds there is like a limit to how high you can go. If you learn how to thin the folds as you go up - and transition to your head voice you can add a tremendous amount of range. I didn't learn how to access my head voice until early last year. Since then my upper range extended from about Ab4 to C#6. Singingmastermind posted a great article on the TA/CT muscles. In that article they said that it is natural for humans to use all or none of a muscle. This is typically the case with the TA muscle. If you use it all, you have chest. If you let go of it, you have falstetto. Skilled singers (and of course those "natural" tenors) can gradually reduce the TA as you go up, allowing you to thin the folds and transition smoothly into head. It is not real easy to do all this by just reading forum posts though. The fastest way is taking lessons from someone that can teach you and / or buying a good instructional DVD program. Don't feel alone - the E4 is the majic road block for a lot of males - To sing above this, the typical approach is to go into "curbing" or bel canto passagio, or others call it a "cry" voice. It is a vowel modification that shifts resonance, providing what Steve Fraser calls "cusioning" to aid you as you go higher. Beyond that, you will transition into pure head voice at a higher point. Geno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VideoHere Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 I'm having trouble extending my range and I've read thread after thread of people talking about extending the range. I'm currently exploring curbing and finding some ups and downs. But I also keep going back and checking vocal range classifications such as Bass, Baritone, Sopranos, Tenors etc. If you fall into one category i there a way to extend? I feel like I'm a Baritone but I want the benefits of a tenor. I can sing about 2 notes below C3 and up to middle C4 in chest voice. I can get up to about E4 (at times) in chest. After that is when I hit my break, I hear musicians hitting higher notes in a chesty tone, which I guess is curbing, but when I attempt it splats or I force myself into Head voice. I'm currently going back and forth between Brett Manning's Master Mix and Singing for the stars and finding some advancements. geno did a great job of explaining it. but like i tell everyone if you just siren up and down nice and slow and with low to med. volume on an "ng" sound, you will "feel" how easily you can transition. that exercise is great to get the "feel" of it because unless you push excessively you won't lock up....try it. it's a staple exercise, and a good one. there are others, but sounds like you need to feel the freedom aspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gno Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Great point Bob about the "ng" sound. The "ng" automatically sets up the resonance to carry you up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Starr Posted April 7, 2011 Author Share Posted April 7, 2011 Wow, so you've developed your chest and passaggio more than your head? I suppose you have to work from the ground up. I've tried the NG scale and end up gettin stuck and flip into falsetto or it splats in a way further up the scale, but it's reassuring that I can extend my range in some way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VideoHere Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Wow, so you've developed your chest and passaggio more than your head? I suppose you have to work from the ground up. I've tried the NG scale and end up gettin stuck and flip into falsetto or it splats in a way further up the scale, but it's reassuring that I can extend my range in some way. that "ng" scale...can you post a sample? we can help you with it i'm sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Starr Posted April 7, 2011 Author Share Posted April 7, 2011 http://www.box.net/shared/0ev1k2fyl8 Just found a Pharyngeal exercise on Mastering Mix, though the sound he is producing sounds more buzzing than what I'm doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VideoHere Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 http://www.box.net/shared/0ev1k2fyl8 Just found a Pharyngeal exercise on Mastering Mix, though the sound he is producing sounds more buzzing than what I'm doing. thanks for trying, but i was asking for a siren, a nice, soft to medium volume siren.....or try "zing." use just enough volume to keep it connected and nice and slow don't even worry about pitch....relax and let it feel free and flow out of you this configuration, this "ng" is designed to split up the oral and nasal cavities and prevent locking up. it allows you access to your head register if you relax and don't push it....allow it....notice how the sound is also coming through the nasal area... try it again...i guarantee you'll get it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Starr Posted April 7, 2011 Author Share Posted April 7, 2011 Hmm a little better on the siren, I can hear and feel a few breaks. http://www.box.net/shared/o1tbnkoje0 http://www.box.net/shared/4kirna5r4t Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VideoHere Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Hmm a little better on the siren, I can hear and feel a few breaks. http://www.box.net/shared/o1tbnkoje0 http://www.box.net/shared/4kirna5r4t d, you kill me...if that's your idea of slow, i'd hate to hear what you call fast...lol!!!!!! just kidding okay, now configure to a yawn (open up just a little bit more) and again slow it down and onset more gently....try to focus the sound behind the nose. try it again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Starr Posted April 7, 2011 Author Share Posted April 7, 2011 I'm staring to feel a bit of a bite, like a grab where I need to switch if that makes sense. http://www.box.net/shared/1pmivubarf http://www.box.net/shared/4v8abr2ti7 PLus this NG exercise has warmed my upper range up and it feels a lil easier on head notes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joy-Sikorski Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 D.Starr - for sure you can extend your range. Anyone can - you just have to learn the "tricks" - areas in your vocal tract / mouth / etc. to place the resonance as you move through different registers. And learn how to lighted your registration when going up. It is natural to retain those thick folds as you go up. With thick folds there is like a limit to how high you can go. If you learn how to thin the folds as you go up - and transition to your head voice you can add a tremendous amount of range. I didn't learn how to access my head voice until early last year. Since then my upper range extended from about Ab4 to C#6. Singingmastermind posted a great article on the TA/CT muscles. In that article they said that it is natural for humans to use all or none of a muscle. This is typically the case with the TA muscle. If you use it all, you have chest. If you let go of it, you have falstetto. Skilled singers (and of course those "natural" tenors) can gradually reduce the TA as you go up, allowing you to thin the folds and transition smoothly into head. It is not real easy to do all this by just reading forum posts though. The fastest way is taking lessons from someone that can teach you and / or buying a good instructional DVD program. Don't feel alone - the E4 is the majic road block for a lot of males - To sing above this, the typical approach is to go into "curbing" or bel canto passagio, or others call it a "cry" voice. It is a vowel modification that shifts resonance, providing what Steve Fraser calls "cusioning" to aid you as you go higher. Beyond that, you will transition into pure head voice at a higher point. Geno Thanks for mentioning that article, guitartrek. Also, D.Starr, the idea of the siren in context with the "ng" that VIDEOHERE mentioned is very important and is not as hard as people think. I have 2 videos I did several years ago that explain this in a simple way. I hope they will help you. They are from my original singbabysing youtube channel but go to the singingmastermind youtube channel instead and look for the Silly Spinning Siren lessons. Start with #1 and then do #2. And here is my biggest key to success that you can quote me on: "Don't think it out, fun it out!" http://www.youtube.com/singingmastermind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Starr Posted April 7, 2011 Author Share Posted April 7, 2011 Thanks everyone, I'll play around with it. I still don't get curbing, I know you should have a hold or add a cry but as much as i attempt to add a cry I can only get so high, plus UH so far up really slams up in my throat. I try and keep it dopey but no success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joy-Sikorski Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Thanks everyone, I'll play around with it. I still don't get curbing, I know you should have a hold or add a cry but as much as i attempt to add a cry I can only get so high, plus UH so far up really slams up in my throat. I try and keep it dopey but no success. Take a look at the post I just did that quotes guitartrek. There's a link there that may help you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VideoHere Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 I'm staring to feel a bit of a bite, like a grab where I need to switch if that makes sense. http://www.box.net/shared/1pmivubarf http://www.box.net/shared/4v8abr2ti7 PLus this NG exercise has warmed my upper range up and it feels a lil easier on head notes. you're getting closer... yes, the ng makes a great warmup as well go check out joy's video... it's excellent let me know how you make out, okay? once you get the hang of it, you'll be kicking yourself in the butt saying how easy it is .. there's another great one that extends off that so get busy ....lol!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggplantbren Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Hi D. Starr, I know that you, like me and so many others, are trying to figure out how to sing in a "mix" or curbing in the middle part of the voice, I though I'd link you to this thread (http://www.punbb-hosting.com/forums/themodernvocalist/viewtopic.php?id=2017) where there's a cool video showing how to do it. I found it really helpful when I was practicing yesterday, I just need to get it into my muscle memory. In that thread, jonpall also describes another route through the passagio, what CVT calls overdrive. It's less useful in the R&B style that you're into, but it's also a good tool to have, and is such fun to do (as long as you don't mind getting LOUD!) Good luck and keep at it! I know this stuff can take a long time for some and be very frustrating, but you'll get there eventually! That's what I keep telling myself... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VideoHere Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Hi D. Starr, I know that you, like me and so many others, are trying to figure out how to sing in a "mix" or curbing in the middle part of the voice, I though I'd link you to this thread (http://www.punbb-hosting.com/forums/themodernvocalist/viewtopic.php?id=2017) where there's a cool video showing how to do it. I found it really helpful when I was practicing yesterday, I just need to get it into my muscle memory. In that thread, jonpall also describes another route through the passagio, what CVT calls overdrive. It's less useful in the R&B style that you're into, but it's also a good tool to have, and is such fun to do (as long as you don't mind getting LOUD!) Good luck and keep at it! I know this stuff can take a long time for some and be very frustrating, but you'll get there eventually! That's what I keep telling myself... egg, sometimes you need to take baby steps till you get the coordination and the feel....you can always pack on the heaviness later on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggplantbren Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 I know Bob, patience is the key I've found. Sometimes I find the right coordination in exercises and then I'm like "now I want to sing a hard song!" and then I mess it up and lose the coordination. Don't do this! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gno Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 D.Starr - your ng scale sounds pretty good. You need to not over do this. Practice an octave scale, up and down starting on like A2. Move up a half step do it again. Keep on doing it until you reach your breaking point. Then lower a half step, do it again until you're back down to A2. Do it once a day only. You should start seeing progress over a couple days. Don't push it. You can't do this over night - you are going to have to build the coordination gradually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronws Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 If it helps any, I've had a strong head voice since 1988 but I still learn new things every day, even today, which is why I really find value in this forum. Either I learn something here or I learn something by reading from being inspired by being here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Starr Posted April 8, 2011 Author Share Posted April 8, 2011 Wow I see a lot of responses, thank you very much guys. I'll work with this siren for awhile and see where I get. I think I find curbing hard because of the vowels, because I'm from the UK the sounds are different to those in the sound library and listening to how I pronounce the vowels in relation to the words in a way is different to how they are in the sound library. Or maybe I'm just not modifying them enough and should take my time to work at it. Adding the cry is hard for me, but I'm gunna try the whimper audio I found by Jonpall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Starr Posted April 8, 2011 Author Share Posted April 8, 2011 WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW I just made a smooth transition from head to chest with the NG just playfully going down and up the scale. No break. EDIT Also doing it on vowels with no break. It'll wear off though as soon as my voice warms down. http://www.box.net/shared/b69qtaxvro Wow, I've just sang a few songs and feel a whole new freedom on notes and going up into head voice. A few kinks but practice will iron them out. Maybe if I do this more I progress better in sining and erase the break? Man I should do this more often. Now I got this as a daily routine that I can do at work and at the PC or on the Xbox, I need to develop one that I can do for Curbing whilst at my PC or out with friends. Hmmm... Any suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Starr Posted April 8, 2011 Author Share Posted April 8, 2011 http://www.box.net/shared/c5hrp34jb9 http://www.box.net/shared/t3ba0r3plb http://www.box.net/shared/cl8i2ngb5n My voice seems a lot more flexible since I've been doing sirens on NG. Some of those have very little support and don't feel strained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VideoHere Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 http://www.box.net/shared/c5hrp34jb9 http://www.box.net/shared/t3ba0r3plb http://www.box.net/shared/cl8i2ngb5n My voice seems a lot more flexible since I've been doing sirens on NG. Some of those have very little support and don't feel strained. now that you got the "ng" thing going...siren up to the ng "remember" sing or zing, then break out into a vowel at the top. snnnnnnnnggah, snnnnnnnnnnngeh, snnnnnnnnnnnguh, snnnnnnnnnnnngaw watch how you launch the vowel with no constriction....nice and free!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Starr Posted April 8, 2011 Author Share Posted April 8, 2011 now that you got the "ng" thing going...siren up to the ng "remember" sing or zing, then break out into a vowel at the top. snnnnnnnnggah, snnnnnnnnnnngeh, snnnnnnnnnnnguh, snnnnnnnnnnnngaw watch how you launch the vowel with no constriction....nice and free!! Wow that's awesome. You reckon this could unleash those high notes and hard to reach places if I do this more often? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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