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Curbing


D.Starr

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I've been studying the VocalPower - Middle voice where he adds the cry. He reaches C5 effortlessly and it sounds and looks awesome. Minimum effort and all he adds is a cry.

NOW

I guess it's down to me not being efficient in this area, but I add a cry and I still suffer around E4.

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Wow thanks great find, I kinda had to laugh because they're black (no racism implied), going back to the Seth Riggs style thread about black people and gospel and coming away from the straight style.

Riffs and runs have to be about confidence as well, finding the correct note and area to create it.

You got any advice with this curbing? It's bugging me. I've tried the cry shown in the vocal power video and I still struggle.

The vowels I seem to be struggling on. I know everyone can sing and I want to be the best, i strive to make it.

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Found a post on another forum about curbing and decided to mimic the audio I was listening to.

Now in order for me to produce this I have to add a lot of support and producing a vowel adds distortion, but not a pleasant distortion, more like a gravel like sound or vibration in my throat. But not when I keep my mouth closed.

http://www.truploader.com/view/333563 (for some reason box.net is acting up on my end)

Oh and could anyone tell me what note I'm hitting? I was hoping for around F4/F#4

Adding the N to UH does in a way help, but I think I'm not doing the cry properly as mention in this video

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I've been studying the VocalPower - Middle voice where he adds the cry. He reaches C5 effortlessly and it sounds and looks awesome. Minimum effort and all he adds is a cry.

NOW

I guess it's down to me not being efficient in this area, but I add a cry and I still suffer around E4.

D.Starr: You have given a great clue about what is going on. If you add cry, but still 'suffer' around E4, then you are using too much vocal weight, in other terminologies, a too-high-mass phonation, too heavy a registration, too much 'chest'.

Three things to check: 1) That you are letting the vocal weight lessen some as you ascend past A3, 2) that you are not pushing too much air, and 3) that you keep the twang going. These are very helpful in setting up to negotiate the range from C4 to G4.

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Aye, sorry, been busy. The vocal weight thing is about letting your tone lighten when you go higher. It's not really about volume per se. You can achieve great volume with thin folds and low volume with thick folds. It's more like letting your voice thin a bit. Chances are you are trying to carry your speaking voice qualities high up, but it's not possible out of the box : It's a bit like trying to carry a great weight through stairs, you may be able to carry it for a few floors, but at some point in time you will need to lessen your burden. For most people, that time will be around D4.

Steven gave you great advice, as usual. Check your support, check your twang. Since you're going for curbing, I'll add check you hold to the list. Is it too tight ? How does it feel ?

Hearing it, I believe it IS too tight a hold, since you distort :)

I'll check my brain when it's working properly and see if I have anything to help you more on this topic.

Apart from it it seems ok. I can't tell you the exact pitch because I'm not good at it, but I think it's around F#(4).

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Hi D.

I would ask you to post mp3 of issue, as you say issue at E4;

Steven posts;

1) That you are letting the vocal weight lessen some as you ascend past A3, 2) that you are not pushing too much air

You may even be pushing too much air. as per Steve's post;

"If you add cry, but still 'suffer' around E4, then you are using too much vocal weight, in other terminologies, a too-high-mass phonation, too heavy a registration, too much 'chest'."

Lets listen to this problem.

Post a C3 to C4 and C5 scale., post C3 1st , 3rd, 5th, octave to C4 and scale to C5.

The reason why I say this is because baritone (calling loudly) extends to E4 through pushing chest to E4 through added breath pressure, (as well as other issues ..i.e. sustained TA function). Can we have pure vowel, Ah, Ee and Oo C3 - C4 and upwards to C5.

I want to listen as there may be another "break" that you notice around G4 .. A4, and this is something that we can work on.

Stew

p.e. edited later as am still waiting for C5 down bim, bam, bim, bam ... etc. (have posted the reasons) :D

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Your hold is too strong and your sound colour is too light. That's probably why you're finding this difficult. So .... lessen the hold until it gets just comfortable, reduce the volume as much as you can without losing the hold completely and yawn very slightly to get the sound a bit more dopy. Don't spend too much time with "mmmm". Do the vowels, with or without consonants in front. And re-post here, by all means.

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Wow this hold is hard to work with. I try holding off and flipping up into head/falsetto. I try a little and it's not enough, so I try another hold and it's too much.

I tried the way to gain a hold in the CVT book where it says to in a way hold the breath or feel a hold from a cough and producing a note but then I still fall into too much of a hold. I can feel how the hold should feel from the cough, but cannot carry that on as I get past D4.

I tried the yawn configuration.... and just began to yawn, it's hard to hold.

Wow I really need to work on this.

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http://www.box.net/shared/31fta8rvjt

Ah - ee - oo

http://www.box.net/shared/2j0zoaaeaq

Ah

http://www.box.net/shared/kt6e81xazy

Bim

http://www.box.net/shared/pfhfug5ad4

Bim - Bam

http://www.box.net/shared/51zghzd5n1

Mum

http://www.box.net/shared/y1rm5kohs9

I'm aware I'm pulling head voice back down on the mums, I can't seem to co-ordinate it.

I'm really starting to give up on singing, it's really putting me down.

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I have deleted post as I am going to rewrite (written at silly o' clock) - yes for ranges C3 - C4 .. etc, so don't be confused (my err).

Earlier I wrote;

"As you are CVT'ing - I would ask Blackstar or other CVT'ers to give exercises for break at this point". I'll listen to what they have to say before I enter, as whilst vowel I is also currently being discussed on this link." - before a repost - i'll await these responses as I think (and agree) a little too much confusion is starting to creep in. i.e. too many differing systems going on.

I was going to write something else too, but i'll put in other post. I'll take time out listening to the mp3's and put in thoughts later.

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I read a concept on another forum of only having the hold for so long in curbing, once your at a certain point you have to let go of it and that's how you reach those higher notes. Then as you come back down the scale, adding the hold in order to bridge.

Maybe I'm putting the hold on in the wrong place and keeping it there for too long, like too high up the scale?

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Earlier I wrote;

"As you are CVT'ing - I would ask Blackstar or other CVT'ers to give exercises for break at this point". I'll listen to what they have to say before I enter, as whilst vowel I is also currently being discussed on this link." - before a repost - i'll await these responses as I think (and agree) a little too much confusion is starting to creep in. i.e. too many differing systems going on.

Sorry Stew, totally missed that. I'm leaving now and will be back tomorrow afternoon. I'll try to explain CVT's point of view on this then, since I'll try to explain it the best way I can and try to record some clips if it helps. ;)

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Okay, so trying to imitate the video above, I've made two recordings.

One is how I think I'd normally approach it at a gig, pretty much full voice.

http://www.box.net/shared/bvgcg8bk71

The other is with the kind of cry thing in there. You can hear me kind of break to get there, but is this the way it SHOULD be executed?

http://www.box.net/shared/kfodrklucj

Because I'm trying to get the terms correct- what would each of these approaches represent? ("Sh*t" is not the answer I'm looking for here! ;) I mean like curbing, neutral, etc.)

The second method seems like it could prolong my gig life if done correctly. Keep in mind, I've bee up for 20 minutes and my mic is just my crummy laptop mic.

Gracias.

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Billy : About your first clip, it is overdrive, but I'm not 100% sure it's pure overdrive all along, there's something that seems a bit bizarre on the top note. I wouldn't expect the volume to skyrocket this way with some distorsion. Maybe it's because of the vowel or just the mic though, but I'm afraid it's just the tentative chestpulling that kicks in. Does it feel free, good, and does the sound please you ? Is it tiring ?

The second one *seems* to me to be a chest to head with a generous amount of twang going. Which would be overdrive to neutral without air or even metal like neutral in CVT's terms. So that wouldn't be the Curbing mode you are looking for here.

Now, as always, take everything I say with a grain of salt. If someone says something contrary to me, especially analog, jonpall, blackstar or snorth, (s)he is probably righter. I'm just starting ;p

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Thanks Ronron. Not sure what's bizarre in the first clip, but yeah, I get loud on the higher note. Yeah, pulling chest, I agree. It would be tiring to do that all the time and in some high songs that I can't do, I attempt to do it in this way and it doesn't work. Songs with high "Bs" over and over I can't do and I try to do that in the manner of example 1.

In the second one, that seems like the approach I should go for. Not sure it is or not... But while I can kind of do it on mum, I can't seem to do it with actual lyrics.

So basically, my range is where my chest will go- unless I'm doing a high falsetto like Prince in "Kiss" or a kind of high scream like during the guitar solo of Journey's "Wheel in the Sky".

does that make sense?

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Billy, listening to your clips, I think it's very simple why you're failing and pretty easy to help you get it with just a few rounds of you sending clips and getting feedback, either here or you can email me.

This your problem, IMO:

1. You sing Ah on the top notes but should sing Uh (as in "hungry").

2. Your larynx is too high. Yawn or use a dopy/stupid sound to lower your larynx. Just don't overdo it - otherwise your sound will be TOO dopy (instead of just balanced), your throat might hurt again and/or you simply might not even reach the notes.

Also keep you volume at medium, for now at least, even though you can increase it with the same method later.

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