The Ah vowel

[ronws]

This is very similar to what I learned a long time from Mark Baxter's book and I've gone back to it many times, thinking it might work the best for me personally. Thanks for sharing. I do know that there is more than one truth to this stuff. Also, the words of Bruce Lee kind of fits this discussion, although it comes from the world of martial arts: "Before I learned Kung Fu, a punch was just a punch. After having studied it for a while, a punch was no longer a punch. Finally, when I mastered the art, a punch is just a punch". Often you have to learn the details of things in order to be ABLE to forget yourself in the moment and not think about the details.

"The Dao of Jeet Kune Do." I have read that, too.

[Steven Fraser]

All:

The reason that any vowel modification is recommended is that it accomplishes something acoustically that makes singing easier. Specifically, the suggested vowels, by improving or optimizing the alignment of harmonics and resonances, produce more sound for less effort and strain.

The circumstances of any particular modification being suggested need to be understood. For example, some tenor voices work and sound better if they brighten a vowel in the passaggio, ay toward ee a bit, because it shifts the passaggio to a lower note (F1 goes lower) and puts the voice more clearly in the top voice when it would otherwise be awkward. A baritone, however, may choose to darken the very same vowel, lowering F2 so that it aligns with a strong harmonic.

There is not just one workable approach. Some teachers, even back into the 19th Century, advocated the 'late' passaggio, tenor in chest to A4 for Ah, while others advocated the 'early' passaggio, prepared in E4-F#4. There as beautiful singing from proponents of both approaches then, and there is now.

I think its only fair to mention that the advice of 'the key to singing AH is to never sing Ah' works better if you understand that the advice stems from reference to the /a/ of Italian, which is quite brighter than we would normally sing in English. Even Pavarotti, a native speaker of that language, advised tenors to 'cover' or 'darken' the /a/ to an actual 'aw' when approaching the passaggio, because it made a smoother transition to a powerful and beautiful top voice.

Just as fairly, smaller and brighter voices very often benefit from the opposite modification, to brighten. I have in mind the stellar top notes of Alfredo Kraus when I mention this.

Circling back to the (my paraphrase) question: Why the hell would someone recommend this (or that) modification....

Its because it works for a number of voices. It may work for the 'average' voice, too. It just may need to be tweaked by the teacher for the particular voice.

[jonpall]

analog, possibly even better than the slow clap, is the "golf clap": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Vw9hePLP4c

[jonpall]

Here's something I find interesting:

CVT would state, if I'm not mistaken, that if you modify your vowel too close to a pure Ah vowel, too high up in pitch, you will lose the "cry". Still, I've been experimenting with singing I, O and Uh (all 3 curbing vowels) AND also the Ah vowel and I kind of think I can keep the cry on all vowels, even though the Ah vowel gets slightly louder than I, O and Uh. Anyone want to comment on this?

[VideoHere]

Here's something I find interesting:

CVT would state, if I'm not mistaken, that if you modify your vowel too close to a pure Ah vowel, too high up in pitch, you will lose the "cry". Still, I've been experimenting with singing I, O and Uh (all 3 curbing vowels) AND also the Ah vowel and I kind of think I can keep the cry on all vowels, even though the Ah vowel gets slightly louder than I, O and Uh. Anyone want to comment on this?

thanks steve, good to see you back my friend!!

regarding "ah"

i can only tell you that when i exercise the voice i use a yawn configuration mouth setup, (lately i just setup like that automatically) staying relaxed in the jaw and throat, with a pretty tall mouth, now i pay attention to elongate and lengthen the neck (thanks to alex's great video) and adjust myself to get this openess in the back of the throat, i get this open, this vibrating metallic sound with very little effort....i'm very happy with it.

and if i tweak just slighty to an "oh" as in "doughnut" and then further up to an "uh" as in "look" (again, for me) i am at a place with my singing i have never been before. no way would i have figured that out on my own. tamplin has a way of drilling it into you that you cannot miss because you start to feel the difference and you like it so much you seek to repeat it over and over (geno knows...right geno?)

but as steve said, it's per each individual voice/voice type. and yes i can cry on "ah" and twang on "ah."

does this help?

[jonpall]

I'm doing similar stuff now, Bob. Cool.

[analog]

analog, possibly even better than the slow clap, is the "golf clap": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Vw9hePLP4c

Nice

[stew503]

Hi,

This thread took a little differing turn from open arms thread, as then we were modding vowels based on diction at that point as well as consonant to vowel movement. This thread is taking a more modding vowel through registration, rather than song.... I "may" ... mention about using trombone slide for slurring problems, but .. that's possibly "yet" another thread !!! p.s. we are still awating the song ...

I look at Steve's post;

Some teachers, even back into the 19th Century, advocated the 'late' passaggio, tenor in chest to A4 for Ah, while others advocated the 'early' passaggio, prepared in E4-F#4. There as beautiful singing from proponents of both approaches then, and there is now.

The old eb4 rule is applied a LOT (classical - poss other schools) and whilst may be a different thread, is one that I take great interest in .. as is it too old school ? (and thus is causing more issues that fixes), where as the range needs to be extended as per individual student (and maybe one for a survey).

I was also looking on a differing thread regarding modding a vowel and tongue movement on it to Blackstar (lateral tongue movement). I'ts also interesting to see that there are several people with the same "fixes", although we may very way say the same thing in a differing way.

It was good to know that you got "it" from a formally deleted post. One thing said a differing way was the moment of you "possibly" understanding it ... I like this TVM forum from that respect, as .. being a teacher ... I know that it can take many many many 6+ attempts to get the same thing across to a group and different people.

Stew

p.s. I was reading this post - yesterday (or when it was posted);

Some teachers, even back into the 19th Century

also perchance - today I was reading reid's Voice:Psyche and Soma and the same wording almost as it it jumped from a page, it refered to 17th, 18th and 19th, but my, had me reading it several times.

[VideoHere]

I'm doing similar stuff now, Bob. Cool.

you know jonpall in meant to ask you..did you ever try doing that "so now i come to you...etc." in that ricki guy style? more of a light headier sound focusing in the soft palate? the one i think is the weaker one? (my hangup, i admit.) would you care to try it that way?

[jonpall]

Bob, no, I want power.

I'd like to be able to sing both soft and hard, but so that you know, I like Perry's sound much more on the Frontiers album and his solo album where he suddenly started to sing with more power.

By the way Bob - that "c clamp" thing of yours, and forming all vowels from the back of your throat or something like that ... it was working well tonight. I really liked it. Partly because it seems to simply the entire vowel modification stuff a lot. And I'm trying to see how little volume and throat effort I can get away with while still sounding powerful. I guess that the cry has to be there in order to do that, among other things. Later! :)

[VideoHere]

Bob, no, I want power.

I'd like to be able to sing both soft and hard, but so that you know, I like Perry's sound much more on the Frontiers album and his solo album where he suddenly started to sing with more power.

By the way Bob - that "c clamp" thing of yours, and forming all vowels from the back of your throat or something like that ... it was working well tonight. I really liked it. Partly because it seems to simply the entire vowel modification stuff a lot. And I'm trying to see how little volume and throat effort I can get away with while still sounding powerful. I guess that the cry has to be there in order to do that, among other things. Later!

that's great my brother....do you sense how you kind of brushstoke the folds for note changes during an exercise like a scale?

[Steven Fraser]

p.s. I was reading this post - yesterday (or when it was posted);

Some teachers, even back into the 19th Century

also perchance - today I was reading reid's Voice:Psyche and Soma and the same wording almost as it it jumped from a page, it referred to 17th, 18th and 19th, but my, had me reading it several times.

Hi, stew503! This thread was timely for me, since I have been re-reading Manuel Garcia II (Hints on Singing) and G.B. Lamperti (The Technics of Bel Canto) in the last 2 weeks. Reid's book, the third in the series, was very influential on me as a young singer and teacher, but I have not read it in a while. From a technical perspective, I found 'The Free Voice', and 'Bel Canto' more on the technical level, and V, P&S to be more about the wholistic singer.

I smiled, too, to notice the terminology disagreements about what is falsetto, and what is head voice. While the Italian teacher/writers were enormously influential over the rest of Europe, they did not agree on what those were.... We are the heirs of confusion started centuries ago!

All the best. I am enjoying your posts.

[stew503]

Steve(n) - What do you prefer ?,

As I do your's,

"I smiled, too, to notice the terminology disagreements about what is falsetto."

Yes, there was a section re; this referring to difficulties in Garcia's definition. Mancici & Manfridini, vs. Tosi, vs. Nathan... and the list goes on through the centuries, (Mid / late 17th, early 18th, mid 18th, 19th);

Tenducci; Lamperti, Witherspoon .. and yes - so true; "We are the heirs of confusion started centuries ago"

I am interested to know more regarding Lamperti's insights on this as I read about him ignoring falsetto, but recognised 2 registers for male and 3 registers for females (as opposed to Garcia seeing middle and falsetto of female voice were one and the same mechanism).

As for the book collection, it's a continuing list of additional books over time and i'm always interested to hear what others are "reading". I have essays on the nature arriving shortly and ... one thing that i'm unhappy about, is the overpricing on these books, due to their nature. (some are just absurd).

Warm Regards

Stew

[jonpall]

Here's a thorough and interesting article about the Ah vowel: http://www.voiceteacher.com/achieve_balance.html

[VideoHere]

Here's a thorough and interesting article about the Ah vowel: http://www.voiceteacher.com/achieve_balance.html

it's so true about being aware of not speading (widthwise) the mouth...that's just knocks everything out of alignment.

what ken tamplin teaches is all vowel sounds stem from the "ah" vowel. but he also asks you to remember that modifying as you ascend the scale is mandatory (subtle modification) because those modifiers "oh" and "uh" act as release valves easing the transition as you go up. it helped me with getting away from my habit of powering through to get up higher and made it more ringy at the same time. now i find, i can tune myself to get more ring and a metallic tone with slightly less effort.

this will shake some people up...lol!!! sometimes i'll feel like i've tilted the bottom of my mouth (of course, i'm not really doing that) to get more ring...as if the mouth is an adjuster.

i think it was steve fraser who said it's very much like tuning in radio stations with those old time transitor radios....remember how you had to turn the dial to get the station the clearest and eliminate the static? if you went too far either way it would pull in more static? it wasn't until you turned it just the right amount and the station came in clear...then came digital tuners and all that went away......lol!!!!

that's kind of like the same for singing...you tune your vocal tract to align those desirable formants...steve, right?

[VideoHere]

here's an interesting vid to both see and hear the adjustments of singing the "oh" vowel as taught by this instructor. (sorry, but this one has a commercial..thankfully it's only 15 seconds.

[jonpall]

Bob, how do you like Vendera's simplification of full voice of just putting the sound in the palate and not worrying to much about vowel modification?

[Steven Fraser]

Bob, how do you like Vendera's simplification of full voice of just putting the sound in the palate and not worrying to much about vowel modification?

jonpall: I am not Bob, but regardless of what Jaime says, his singing employs vowel modification. Just watch him sing a 2-octave siren. Jaw drop and/or embouchure change are visible manifestations of vowel modification.

To 'put the sound in the palate' Jaime does three things: he twangs bigtime, he matches laryngeal muscle action with exhalation force, and he does vocal tract tuning. The sound, and the sense of the vibrations that go along, do not occur if the technique does not incorporate the three aspects.

I hope this helps.

[VideoHere]

Bob, how do you like Vendera's simplification of full voice of just putting the sound in the palate and not worrying to much about vowel modification?

it seems to me that a lot of instructors (not saying anyone in particular) tend to omit vowel mods. or touch on it very little in their packaged products...books etc.

i'm not sure if it's held back for a formal lesson or they feel after a while the singer will intuitively get it. jaime's audio files has him really singing

loudly though. the one where he sirens up to a "b4" was impressive. he's a powerful vocalist.