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celebrate your gains!!

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hi folks,

i just want to say that when you achieve a goal or improve something in your voice training...no matter how small or incremental it may seem, do whatever you have to do....record it, write it down, tell us! go ahead!! don't be afraid to compliment yourself!!

if you are exercising with consistency and purpose you are making progress...you have to be...this stuff really works....don't you feel yourself getting stronger? aren't you able to relax things that you couldn't have before? aren't you able to control the larynx....rather than let it control you?..how about the folds? can you feel how you have better control now? aren't you feeling more flexible and free? these are all gains, plus many more i haven't even mentioned.

celebrate your achievements!

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Heh, just today I nailed "The Kids Aren't Alright" when I had to take it down to Gm before. Did I gain a full step in my range? I'll just accept this and not think about it too much, lol.

:D

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Heh, just today I nailed "The Kids Aren't Alright" when I had to take it down to Gm before. Did I gain a full step in my range? I'll just accept this and not think about it too much, lol.

:D

yes, but praise yourself...we learned not to do that when we were younger, but it's good to acknowledge your gains. if you think you nailed it, you did!

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My new favorite pass-time is to slap on some old albums with wide-ranged singing (think Soundgarden, Maiden, AiC, Zep etc.) and make it a game of 'sing a crazy harmony over this!'. Keep it loose, in the moment, spontaneous and playful.

Great fun, trains your ear>voice creative spark and leads to moments of wonderful surprise as you find yourself singing new melodies and notes that are waaaay out there. Queue running over to the guitar/piano and realizing you've just sung a minor sixth above an already tricky note line. Mind is blown and reminded of all the good stuff that happens when you let go.

As an aside, finally coerced one of my recovery group clients to have a go at this and the look of shock and delight on his face was priceless. We took his improvised riff and jammed on it. I swear, encouraging others to make gains is even more rewarding than doin it for yourself. Probably old news for many of you but a new one for me.

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My new favorite pass-time is to slap on some old albums with wide-ranged singing (think Soundgarden, Maiden, AiC, Zep etc.) and make it a game of 'sing a crazy harmony over this!'. Keep it loose, in the moment, spontaneous and playful.

Great fun, trains your ear>voice creative spark and leads to moments of wonderful surprise as you find yourself singing new melodies and notes that are waaaay out there. Queue running over to the guitar/piano and realizing you've just sung a minor sixth above an already tricky note line. Mind is blown and reminded of all the good stuff that happens when you let go.

As an aside, finally coerced one of my recovery group clients to have a go at this and the look of shock and delight on his face was priceless. We took his improvised riff and jammed on it. I swear, encouraging others to make gains is even more rewarding than doin it for yourself. Probably old news for many of you but a new one for me.

yes, i mean we practice, sing, or both whatever, day after day.... what's the point if don't have goals or drive?

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I don't know if it's a gain, but today i had the best compliment on my singing . Let me explain:

I know i am a good guitarist and most of the time when i play with other musicians those people tell me " hey really great playing bro' you rock".

But this time it was different: i started a band with a friend ( a drummer) when i play guitar AND i'm the lead singer, it's a cover band we play some kotzen, hendrix, funk/soul/rock songs...today we were auditioning a bass player. After the first song (losin my mind of richie kotzen), this guy (who is now our bass player lol) loooked at me and said "whaou, your voice sounds really great, congrats man, love the tone".

It was so great!!! first time in my life, singing is as appreciated as my guitar playing... So cool!!!

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I don't know if it's a gain, but today i had the best compliment on my singing . Let me explain:

I know i am a good guitarist and most of the time when i play with other musicians those people tell me " hey really great playing bro' you rock".

But this time it was different: i started a band with a friend ( a drummer) when i play guitar AND i'm the lead singer, it's a cover band we play some kotzen, hendrix, funk/soul/rock songs...today we were auditioning a bass player. After the first song (losin my mind of richie kotzen), this guy (who is now our bass player lol) loooked at me and said "whaou, your voice sounds really great, congrats man, love the tone".

It was so great!!! first time in my life, singing is as appreciated as my guitar playing... So cool!!!

in the words of james lugo......yeah baby!

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My new favorite pass-time is to slap on some old albums with wide-ranged singing (think Soundgarden, Maiden, AiC, Zep etc.) and make it a game of 'sing a crazy harmony over this!'. Keep it loose, in the moment, spontaneous and playful.

Great fun, trains your ear>voice creative spark and leads to moments of wonderful surprise as you find yourself singing new melodies and notes that are waaaay out there. Queue running over to the guitar/piano and realizing you've just sung a minor sixth above an already tricky note line. Mind is blown and reminded of all the good stuff that happens when you let go.

As an aside, finally coerced one of my recovery group clients to have a go at this and the look of shock and delight on his face was priceless. We took his improvised riff and jammed on it. I swear, encouraging others to make gains is even more rewarding than doin it for yourself. Probably old news for many of you but a new one for me.

God, I feel old. When you said old albums, I was thinking of the song, "July Morning," by Uriah Heep.

Guess I am dating myself. What's the accomplishment? I guess, that I still appreciate the sounds and images of my youth. To me, bands like Uriah Heep are still vital. That it's okay to be old and hang to stuff that means somethng to you. Granted, facing each day a-new is good and being current with the times involves a continual learning process. But classics tell us where we have been so that we know where we are going to.

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Sometimes, returning to basics yields good things. Today, I concentrated only on breath support and let everything else fall where it may. And have the easiest time doing whatever I want. It takes all the strain and effort and whatever complicated maneuvers out of my throat. I feel some effort in my lower abdominals, which is where it should be. Anywhere but the throat. Let me repeat that ... anywhere but the throat. Did I mention anywhere but the throat? Perhaps I shold re-iterate. Anywhere but the throat. While the exercises and scales help you calibrate what amount of "zip" you should have and where it should resonate, you've got to have the right air pressure and any changes in that should be in the gut. Not the chest or the throat.

And I am totally happy not sounding like anyone that I know of. And if no one else likes that, well, I'm okay with that, too. One of those days where I don't give a a moment's notice whether I or someone else thinks I sound like this or that person, or not. Really don't give a hoot. I just enjoyed singing, today. If you can't enjoy it, what is the use of doing it? I mean seriously, if its' got to be such a serious, heartbreaking undertaking, screw it, you are doing it for the wrong reasons. Take up knitting, or underwater basket-weaving or something with less stress.

You have one life, enjoy it, enjoy your voice and whatever it can do. Quit listening to the people that say that you can't do this or that in this or that fashion. Tell them to take a flying leap into a lake, somewhere. I'm not saying don't try to do the best that you can. Just be glad for what you can do.

I know that runs counter to most peoples' attitude about themselves and what they are doing. Sorry about your luck. Suffer. Or don't.

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Sometimes, returning to basics yields good things. Today, I concentrated only on breath support and let everything else fall where it may. And have the easiest time doing whatever I want. It takes all the strain and effort and whatever complicated maneuvers out of my throat. I feel some effort in my lower abdominals, which is where it should be. Anywhere but the throat. Let me repeat that ... anywhere but the throat. Did I mention anywhere but the throat? Perhaps I shold re-iterate. Anywhere but the throat. While the exercises and scales help you calibrate what amount of "zip" you should have and where it should resonate, you've got to have the right air pressure and any changes in that should be in the gut. Not the chest or the throat.

And I am totally happy not sounding like anyone that I know of. And if no one else likes that, well, I'm okay with that, too. One of those days where I don't give a flying &^%$ whether I or someone else thinks I sound like this or that person, or not. Really don't give a hoot. I just enjoyed singing, today. If you can't enjoy it, what is the use of doing it? I mean seriously, if its' got to be such a serious, heartbreaking undertaking, screw it, you are doing it for the wrong reasons. Take up knitting, or underwater basket-weaving or something with less stress.

You have one life, enjoy it, enjoy your voice and whatever it can do. Quit listening to the people that say that you can't do this or that in this or that fashion. Tell them to take a flying leap into a lake, somewhere. I'm not saying don't try to do the best that you can. Just be glad for what you can do.

I know that runs counter to most peoples' attitude about themselves and what they are doing. Sorry about your luck. Suffer. Or don't.

ron, yeppers breath management is the key i.m.o. as well. it all starts there and sometimes it's very physically demanding.

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Take up knitting, or underwater basket-weaving or something with less stress.

You've clearly never tried underwater basket weaving if you don't think it's stressful.. serious amounts of breath management and weave co-ordination required..

:P

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The only problem is that breath support alone is not enough. You can support as hard as you can and still not get a good tone. But for sure, the correct amount of support is key, especially for high notes, loud notes and high+loud notes. Even extremly low pitch notes. Or, finally, for sound effects like rasp.

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The only problem is that breath support alone is not enough. You can support as hard as you can and still not get a good tone. But for sure, the correct amount of support is key, especially for high notes, loud notes and high+loud notes. Even extremly low pitch notes. Or, finally, for sound effects like rasp.

let's call it breath management...to me it's numero uno because so many other things get fixed along with it. it's kinda like

let's say i'm breath management "okay, now that you have me taken care of, i'll leave you with a nice relaxed throat so you can adduct your vocal folds with nothing to bother you...don't worry about the power, i'll take care of the power.....you just relax up top while i generate the right compression below."

that was from "mr. breath managememt." jesus christ, i'm losing it.....lol!!

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That's true, Bob. But some people think that if something isn't working, they simply have to push down harder with their support.

so true, the trick again is not to push anything...easier said than done though.

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Sometimes, returning to basics yields good things. Today, I concentrated only on breath support and let everything else fall where it may. And have the easiest time doing whatever I want. It takes all the strain and effort and whatever complicated maneuvers out of my throat. I feel some effort in my lower abdominals, which is where it should be. Anywhere but the throat. Let me repeat that ... anywhere but the throat. Did I mention anywhere but the throat? Perhaps I shold re-iterate. Anywhere but the throat. While the exercises and scales help you calibrate what amount of "zip" you should have and where it should resonate, you've got to have the right air pressure and any changes in that should be in the gut. Not the chest or the throat.

This is SO SO SO SO right. I really coudn't agree more with the importance of support as the foundation for correct technique. And concentrating on breath support gives you something else to think about and be paranoid about so any tension you were causing with your own psychology is no longer in your throat. And parts of breath management such as alignment / posture and phrasing are so difficult to seperate from breath management, and are also so important. Realising this has been my big recent accomplishment, and with it came another 5 semitones to the top end of my mix. Wow!

There was something in a post a while back, and I think it was one of VIDEOHERE's. It went something like "imagine that your vocal chords are at the top of the back of your mouth". That was a line that really worked for me, too, thanks Bob (i gather that's your name). That was a revelation for me. Came at the same time as the importance of breath management. Perhaps there should be a sticky for "Imagery that has worked for me", and we could sort of vote that, yes, that one helped me.

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yes, glad that imagery (that's all it is) worked for you. support (i prefer breath management) to me is the foundation of it all. not too much and definitely not too little.

like steve fraser said......it's a balance between breath pressure and fold tension.

both capabilities have to be exercised.

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hey folks, i was able to get a hold of the cvt book (and older version) but i started reading it and it said something in there that really helped me in terms of an "ah ha! now i know for sure" type of answer.

according to cathrine, you need more support the higher up the voice you go, that we know. but did know when you increase the volume in addition to the higher pitch you need up to 5 times more? that's a lot of support. this really gives you a sense of just how much support you might really need at times. i knew you needed a lot, but i think it's more than i thought. you learn something new every day.

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Cool. Just note that between the old and the new version of the book, they changed "belting" into "edge", added the "creaking" type of rasp and changed one of the main principles of an open throat to twang - because they realized that there are certain types of singing styles in which you don't really have much of an open throat, like some heavy metal styles, but you always need a bit of twang. Personally, I thought that last one was a bit of a shame because, apart of that rare style of metal singing, an open throat (where you create a lot of space in your throat for more resonance) is so, so helpful.

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Btw. from your posts, I often get the feeling that you're putting in TOO much effort into your support and even throat activity. Just experiment with using MORE support and then LESS support until you find the right balance for you, ok? Just so that your head doesn't explode when you do the high note in I wanna know what love is.

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Btw. from your posts, I often get the feeling that you're putting in TOO much effort into your support and even throat activity. Just experiment with using MORE support and then LESS support until you find the right balance for you, ok? Just so that your head doesn't explode when you do the high note in I wanna know what love is.

lol!!! not to worry, i've learned to keep my throat very open these days.

what i finding is it's one thing to support at the start of a phrase, but quite another to maintain it to the very last syllable. it can be physically demanding.

i was talking with dave brooks co-author of brett manning's program discussing lou gramm (also invited him to join the forum) and he mentioned how a lot of lou's power was in his support and singing in his sweet spot. he's a big fan as well.

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There is open throat, and open throat, isn't there? I think this is one of those terms that the meaning changes a little depending upon your training / reading. To me, open throat is what opera singers do, with the placement way back there. To me, open throat and relaxed throat / lack of constriction are not the same thing. What are other peoples understanding of the term "open throat"?

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There is open throat, and open throat, isn't there? I think this is one of those terms that the meaning changes a little depending upon your training / reading. To me, open throat is what opera singers do, with the placement way back there. To me, open throat and relaxed throat / lack of constriction are not the same thing. What are other peoples understanding of the term "open throat"?

when i think of open throat, i see it as combination of several things. good posture, supported breath, neck long in the back, relaxed jaw and tongue, mouth configured to a surprised laugh or a yawn. (i swear by that "yawn" or surprised laugh setup.)

basically i want to remove all barriers to the flow of air to the folds and create a nice open space in the throat. i see it has fundamental requisite for good singing..... nothing is blocked or chocked off. there's much less chance of contricting. but the open throat must be supported below for the whole thing to work.

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