ast92 Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 hey guys ive just started the ken tamplin course but it seems really different from other methods i had tried. First he says that we should keep the soft palate high and the tongue down but when i start modifying vowels in the high range either i have to lower soft palate nd raise the back of the tongue or try to keep an open throat by sticking the tongue out , i dont know what is the right way to do it. Another thing is that he talks about the mask and keeping the Ah bright but does that mean we should start adding pharyngeal resonance or we still keeeeeeeep the throat open as it is . one more thing is tht he tells you to pull up chest as high as possible isnt that harmful to the voice , he doesnt talk at all about the larynx whether should it stay neutral or not so i hope u guys can help me thanx in advance :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ast92 Posted April 21, 2011 Author Share Posted April 21, 2011 plz any answer to any question above would be appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VideoHere Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 can you send over a sample? keep the throat open and relaxed at all times. he doesn't have to talk about the larynx position because when you configure to "it's the "lah"..."ah" the larynx will get coaxed down by that open "yawn." "it's the lah." when he talks about holding on to chest he doesn't want to to jump right over to head voice but rather strenghen the muscles by carrying the chest register up while bringing in the head register down. i suggest you replay the dvd because there's a lot to absorb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ast92 Posted April 21, 2011 Author Share Posted April 21, 2011 i know that, i mean after that in stage 2 nd 3 he doesnt talk at all about pharyngeal voice . there are songs that require a low soft palate and kinda high larynx voice but he insists on keeping the soft palate high all the time. Other methods dont advise pulling up chest voice but rather adding the pharyngeal resonance wen singing higher because its an abuse to the voice to pull up chest voice (thts wat they say) and thats y im asking but thanks anyways :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VideoHere Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 i know that, i mean after that in stage 2 nd 3 he doesnt talk at all about pharyngeal voice . there are songs that require a low soft palate and kinda high larynx voice but he insists on keeping the soft palate high all the time. Other methods dont advise pulling up chest voice but rather adding the pharyngeal resonance wen singing higher because its an abuse to the voice to pull up chest voice (thts wat they say) and thats y im asking but thanks anyways i only got a hold of #1, sorry...james lugo is big on the pharyngeal voice. many not not agree, but if done right, you can take your chest register up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Budapest Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 ayad92- Good questions. If you bought the stuff online, Ken includes a free 10minute Skype lesson with you. I did that with him and he was absolutely great. Email him at his site and his assistant will set it up with you. He's a good guy. Singing above the soft palette seems to be the way to always go to get good tone (my opinion). I don't recall much that he talks about keeping the larynx down. He only wants you to pull the chest up so that you can transition to head at a higher point, as opposed to doing the transition low where it'll be more obvious and probably whimpier than you're after. He does mention that THAT is different from what other teachers pass on. It's a good program, but every program is not for everyone. Seems that what works is to take bits that work for you and leave bits that don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ast92 Posted April 21, 2011 Author Share Posted April 21, 2011 videohere- yea i hv jaime vendera's book james lugo talks alot about pharyngeal voice and that the pharyngeal muscle have to be isolated to be trained effectively Billy Budapest- yea i hv talked to him about the twang but he isnt a fan of it nd he said that it works with only the vowel eh or something like that ( i wanted to get rob's four pillars of singing to know more about the twang but for some reason there is a problem with the visa wen i purchase it so i got ken's program instead i will be sure getting the four pillars later) and yea i agree with you every program isnt 4 everyone but it seems like a really good program i notice improvements in my tone after only one week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ast92 Posted April 21, 2011 Author Share Posted April 21, 2011 btw ive read somewhere that he took lessons from maestro kyle and i guess that maestro kyle's approach is different because robert lunte is one of his students. i also know some ppl ho have trained with both ken and rob but wouldnt that be counterproductive?? ken pulls up chest and bridge later and rob bridge earlier wat u guys think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VideoHere Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 videohere- yea i hv jaime vendera's book james lugo talks alot about pharyngeal voice and that the pharyngeal muscle have to be isolated to be trained effectively Billy Budapest- yea i hv talked to him about the twang but he isnt a fan of it nd he said that it works with only the vowel eh or something like that ( i wanted to get rob's four pillars of singing to know more about the twang but for some reason there is a problem with the visa wen i purchase it so i got ken's program instead i will be sure getting the four pillars later) and yea i agree with you every program isnt 4 everyone but it seems like a really good program i notice improvements in my tone after only one week. ken's and james lugo's approach is quite different from rob lunte's. you may find it beneficial to know both. but like billy said, if you quickly pass over to head register too soon, you're not really building the voice as well as you could be i.m.o. rob's technique has you going into head register earlier than ken or james lugo would, but rob's technique is dependent upon twang whereas ken's and james' is not. try both out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Budapest Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 btw ive read somewhere that he took lessons from maestro kyle and i guess that maestro kyle's approach is different because robert lunte is one of his students. i also know some ppl ho have trained with both ken and rob but wouldnt that be counterproductive?? ken pulls up chest and bridge later and rob bridge earlier wat u guys think? I also trained with Kyle. My experience (and others that I know of) was not the same as Ken's and Robert's. As I said, everyone's voice is different. There are things from all of them that work. There are things from all of them that don't. Your mileage may vary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ast92 Posted April 21, 2011 Author Share Posted April 21, 2011 thanks guys nd i will get rob's book asap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vocalpower Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Some interesting discussion here Personally, I have difficulty putting a category on the 'Pharyngeal' voice. We know that the vibratory sound is initiated at vocal fold level within the larynx. We can only then change the resonating space from within which the final sound emerges. The vocal folds interrupt the flow of air at a frequency rate which determines the pitch. The initial resonant tonality of that pitch is firstly governed by the open/closed frequency percentage. From there onwards, the final tone is amplified by the resonant areas remaining in the throat, mouth and nasal cavity spaces and their respective sizes. The most important contributor here is the position and the shape of the tongue. It is essential that buccopharyngeal vowels are not compromised by the tongue position. To try and attempt to colour sounds based on pharyngeal constriction is not encouraged; this would equate to simply reducing our resonant real estate. The tongue (for most of its singing life) should lie low with the front apex ALWAYS in contact with the lower front teeth. Exaggerated downward jaw movements are also discouraged; movement is necessary but should be almost equal to the movement of the speaking voice. Great, healthy forum debate continues. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpall Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 ayad92, I think it kind of comes down to how you personally would want to sound. If you had to choose, would you want to sound closer to Rob Halford or sound closer to Ken Tamplin? That's a personal taste and a personal choice you have to make. Do you like guys with a more twangy sound, like perhaps Steven Tyler or Bon Jovi or do you prefer guys who have a "deeper" sounding voice like Michael Bolton, Tom Jones or Ken Tamplin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vocalpower Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 jonpall, I don't believe that you need to commit to 'a' sound. With the right technique, you should be able to vary your sound - although not exactly like someone else's - why would you. The idea is to enable you to use different colour palettes and allow you to decide how to use your voice stylistically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ast92 Posted April 21, 2011 Author Share Posted April 21, 2011 jonpall i like to sing in many styles i like both halford and ken nd yea like vocalpower said i think one should be able to sound as he likes thats a problem with vocal programs where they teach a sound ideal i thnk cvt is the only method that leaves u to choose wat to practice and how to sound like it gives u all the options but it didnt work for me i found it too advanced after i master ken's program i will start practicing some cvt stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpall Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Sure. I, f.ex., want to be able to sing with several different types of sounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpall Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 But one bad side of always trying to learn to sing with new sounds is that you can potentiall forget some good sounds you already knew how to make. F.ex. sometimes if I spend too much time singing without rasp on my high notes, I forget how to put rasp on them. Then I have to learn it back. Which CAN actually be a good thing, but frankly, most great singers are mostly good at just one thing, or perhaps a couple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ast92 Posted April 22, 2011 Author Share Posted April 22, 2011 yea ur right u just cant have everything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshual Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 But one bad side of always trying to learn to sing with new sounds is that you can potentiall forget some good sounds you already knew how to make. F.ex. sometimes if I spend too much time singing without rasp on my high notes, I forget how to put rasp on them. Then I have to learn it back. Which CAN actually be a good thing, but frankly, most great singers are mostly good at just one thing, or perhaps a couple. so true! You can't sing evereything good. Choose the way you wanna sing!!!! you can't be Chris Cornell and Pavarotti... impossible... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronws Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 But one bad side of always trying to learn to sing with new sounds is that you can potentiall forget some good sounds you already knew how to make. F.ex. sometimes if I spend too much time singing without rasp on my high notes, I forget how to put rasp on them. Then I have to learn it back. Which CAN actually be a good thing, but frankly, most great singers are mostly good at just one thing, or perhaps a couple. Totally on point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gno Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 hey guys ive just started the ken tamplin course but it seems really different from other methods i had tried. First he says that we should keep the soft palate high and the tongue down but when i start modifying vowels in the high range either i have to lower soft palate nd raise the back of the tongue or try to keep an open throat by sticking the tongue out , i dont know what is the right way to do it. Another thing is that he talks about the mask and keeping the Ah bright but does that mean we should start adding pharyngeal resonance or we still keeeeeeeep the throat open as it is . one more thing is tht he tells you to pull up chest as high as possible isnt that harmful to the voice , he doesnt talk at all about the larynx whether should it stay neutral or not so i hope u guys can help me thanx in advance I'm not sure how he does the high soft pallet thing either, but he does and he shows it in one of his videos. I can't seem to do it in the pssagio area. I do what you are doing, and in reading CVT "curbing" which is similar, Catherine says that dropping the soft pallet is one way to do it. I can emulate Ken's tonal balance with a lower soft pallet so I figure it's OK. I'm still working on trying to do it Ken's way with a low tongue and high pallet. I don't know about the larynx position - I really don't think about it, I just go for Ken's tonal balance and it feels and sounds right. I can keep chest (TA involvement) pretty high (above C5) by gradually reducing TA. Thats the key for me. Although I generally switch into pure head by Bb4 (when singing full voice). If you listen to Stage 3, when he sings really lightly, he is transitioning into head much earlier. Those lighter excersizes are great at learning to reduce TA and transition to pure head (no TA) at a lower pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ast92 Posted April 23, 2011 Author Share Posted April 23, 2011 well i will try to hv a lesson with the guy but its 2 expensive $190 for an hour!! i dont know much about cvt but i will get it maybe the next month but ur right wen he does it lightly without much glottal compression he transitions to head earlier i can do it lightly but wen i add glottal compression its kinda hard to keep the tongue down nd soft palate high maybe ur right about the cvt curbing thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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