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Question about Head Voice and its development

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JohnGalt

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All right VIDEOHERE,I have recorded myself starting from what I think is middle C, and doing scales up until the top note B4, but I feel very tense at all of the upper notes.

In regards to the questions:

Yes, I did warm up, I sang some scales in the "ng" voice

Also, I find it difficult to phonate with consistent volume, I can't help but get louder when I sing the upper notes

Thanks for your time! http://www.purevolume.com/JohnGalt81922

before we go any further, are you just starting out...as in square one?

john, are you singing the sound of "ng" as in the word "sing."

first, let's get you a piano:

http://www.thevirtualpiano.com/

i cannot play, but i do know on this piano middle c is the 15th white key from the far left.

try it again.

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Hi JohnGalt

On the top notes, you are singing in falsetto. I know that I am opening the biggest can of worms debate but it is fact. You are flipping into a falsetto sound far too early for your vocal setup. This is only my perception having heard your mp3. Regards, Tony

tony,

hey buddy, feel free to chime in any time. i'm just a singer trying to help. you are a teacher, and i respect that difference.

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Thanks for the input guys! First, vocalpower, what can I do to fix this flipping? Also, what do you mean by "vocal setup"? Is that referring to fache, or something else? Oh, and also I was curious, are you vocalpoweruk on youtube? I remember seeing some of your videos, you have some wicked high notes!

Well VIDEOHERE, in some ways, I have been "singing" (if that's what one would call it) for a while, maybe a few years, but the whole time I would sing in a breathy, light tone and avoided using anything else :lol: But about a month ago I started really becoming in interested in learning how to actually sing :) so I am on square one in terms of technique, I would say. I am trying to sing the "ng" sound you spoke of, I would first say "sing" and then sustain the "ng" sound at the end, followed by me singing the scale. I am pretty sure that the note I started on was middle C, I have been playing guitar for like 4 years as well as simple accompaniment on the piano. Anyways, I will try it again, this time, I will however do the "sing" thing I mentioned into the "ng" sound before each scale so you can hear me, and I will also play the notes on the piano for reference. My voice still feels very forced (albeit it does not feel tired or hoarse with this "ng" sound), so does it mean it's chest voice or small head voice range? Well thanks a lot for your help!

http://www.purevolume.com/JohnGalt81922

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Thanks for the input guys! First, vocalpower, what can I do to fix this flipping? Also, what do you mean by "vocal setup"? Is that referring to fache, or something else? Oh, and also I was curious, are you vocalpoweruk on youtube? I remember seeing some of your videos, you have some wicked high notes!

Well VIDEOHERE, in some ways, I have been "singing" (if that's what one would call it) for a while, maybe a few years, but the whole time I would sing in a breathy, light tone and avoided using anything else :lol: But about a month ago I started really becoming in interested in learning how to actually sing :) so I am on square one in terms of technique, I would say. I am trying to sing the "ng" sound you spoke of, I would first say "sing" and then sustain the "ng" sound at the end, followed by me singing the scale. I am pretty sure that the note I started on was middle C, I have been playing guitar for like 4 years as well as simple accompaniment on the piano. Anyways, I will try it again, this time, I will however do the "sing" thing I mentioned into the "ng" sound before each scale so you can hear me, and I will also play the notes on the piano for reference. My voice still feels very forced (albeit it does not feel tired or hoarse with this "ng" sound), so does it mean it's chest voice or small head voice range? Well thanks a lot for your help!

http://www.purevolume.com/JohnGalt81922

john, please understand i'm just a singer trying to help. if you feel you been breathy all this time, perhaps it's time to step back to some basic fundamentals...i.e. posture, breath management, the basic foundation.

first.....are you planning to purchase lessons or go at it on your own?

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Well VIDEOHERE, I certinaly intend to get lessons soon, but at the moment I am unable to. Sorry if I came on too strong :P, I just get really excited about singing. I believe I have corrected my breathing, my chest/shoulders no longer move at all when I am breathing, only my belly. I always try to maintain proper back straightness if that is what you mean, but I have been doing this since before I decided to try singing. But I am curious, what does the "ng" recording sound like? Pulled up chest? I mean apart from the top notes which are falsetto according to vocalpower. Thanks!

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Well VIDEOHERE, I certinaly intend to get lessons soon, but at the moment I am unable to. Sorry if I came on too strong :P, I just get really excited about singing. I believe I have corrected my breathing, my chest/shoulders no longer move at all when I am breathing, only my belly. I always try to maintain proper back straightness if that is what you mean, but I have been doing this since before I decided to try singing. But I am curious, what does the "ng" recording sound like? Pulled up chest? I mean apart from the top notes which are falsetto according to vocalpower. Thanks!

not pulling chest at all....the "ng" you sang is from a heady/falsetto placement.

i'd like to hear you have it originate in the chest register...

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Heh, I have a feeling I wouldn't be able to sing for the rest of my life if I tried it in chest then :lol:

So, is it normal for my voice to be so strained when singing those notes in head voice? Does it mean that I will never be able to comfortably hit those notes, or that I simply need to keep practicing at lower notes until I become adjusted to singing them and then slowly build up my range? Thank you so much for all your help!

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Heh, I have a feeling I wouldn't be able to sing for the rest of my life if I tried it in chest then :lol:

So, is it normal for my voice to be so strained when singing those notes in head voice? Does it mean that I will never be able to comfortably hit those notes, or that I simply need to keep practicing at lower notes until I become adjusted to singing them and then slowly build up my range? Thank you so much for all your help!

john, relax...take it easy on yourself....lol!!! you're gonna do just fine.

one of the keys to singing is a supported breath/management and control of the breath in conjuction with a relaxed, open throat. when you say strain, what you're saying is you're bringing into action muscles that can constrict the throat which affects the vocal folds....etc.

what i suggest you do is take a week or two to learn how to properly breathe for singing. there are tons of books and dvd's/cd's etc., you can purchase to help you get started. not at all trying to brush you off or anything, but just hearing your comments and phonation it sounds like you need to start there. i.m.o., it's a mandatory requisite for singing well. don't worry about high notes, low notes, none of that right now...get the breathing squared away first...this will build you a solid foundation from which to phonate from. that's your engine...your source for power, note longevity, note consistency, and will go a long way to helping you divert strain away from the throat.

if i were an instructor, i'd insist on it.

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I see what you mean VIDEOHERE, I appreciate greatly your advice and I will begin with the basics. I shall return in a few weeks with the questions I may have! Until then, thank you very much for the advice!

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Hey singingmaster mind:

I really like your point about the higher the pitch, the more the singer has to compromise in articulation. your right about that. Singers need to understand better that when we are in speeh mode, we get the nice articulation of language, but when we are in the exotic realm of singing phonations, speech like articulation is not possible, particularly on high pitches. So the singer must learn to maximize the efficiency of all their consonants and learn how to instinctively modify speech vowels to singing dipthongs.

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I see what you mean VIDEOHERE, I appreciate greatly your advice and I will begin with the basics. I shall return in a few weeks with the questions I may have! Until then, thank you very much for the advice!

my pleasure john.

..believe me, i was too naive and ill informed to know that training and building the voice was for more than just opera singers. i winged it for years, straining and pulling and pushing...all the bad stuff.

i sang in several rock bands (almost made it once) and never even thought of studying voice until i simply knew something had reached a threshold. unfortunately by the time i realized my deficiencies i was in my 50's. now i'm trying again, but i'm singing from a place i never knew existed....

get that breathing/support/air management capability thing squared away.... and you'll be glad you did. if you were in ny (united states), i'd have you set in a couple of weeks.

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Hi John

Firstly, thanks for not taking my critique to heart! I think that to help you with your development of 'head/mixed' voice you should have a look at my videos on youtube:

Your commitment to wanting to get this right is obvious :)

Regards

Tony

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VIDEOHERE, I am very lucky then to have the opportunity to learn about all of this at the very beginning I suppose :) I have started looking through books/videos (and threads on this forum as well of course!) about breath support and have found some stuff. I am somewhat confused, however, due to sometimes contradicting statements. From what I have gathered, it is important to maintain the diaphragm in an expanded state while releasing air/singing? Is this true?

Well vocalpower, I have respect and appreciation for people who take the time out of their day to help me with something that they have already explained before probably 100 times :)

I watched your videos, and to begin with, wow, that was a blistering E5 you sang at the end of the whining puppy exercise! I am curious if I understood the "crying" sound that you demonstrated in video 4 correctly. I tried to sing "ng" sirens, and I noticed that for higher notes if I would make a very whiny, crying sound it took away all the tension from my voice, but I am unsure if I am properly using the cry sound or perhaps just yelling in falsetto :lol:. If at some point you could listen to the audio file I have uploaded here

http://www.purevolume.com/JohnGalt81922

I would be very grateful! Thank you for the excellent videos!

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Oh I forgot to ask, if the recording that I posted is indeed head voice, does this mean that if I sing for long enough with this crying sound I will eventually be able to decrease the amount of cry so that my voice sounds fuller? Thanks again!

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All who know me on this forum know that I don't go in much for a lot of terminology (although I can do that) because I believe that the essence of singing freely has to do with releasing all constrictions, including trying to mentally/intellectually/academically fit in our voices to this muscle position or that muscle position.

Learn everything you can about all of that and then let it all go.

When you connect your emotions and what you want to express in singing with your lower ab muscles in a natural and balanced way, you will have no problem with the vowels up there because, again, the power of what you are expressing is more important that the vowels themselves.

This is not to say that you should abandon any study of the technical aspects of your voice, but I will caution you not to spend too much time on it. I have worked with so many people who have never found their authentic or true voices by going too far in trying to understand the terminology route that they get stuck there and stay constricted or frustrated.

And the clouds part, the sun shines, and the angels sing "Ahhhhh-mehhhhhn."

Simply, beautifully worded. Rockonwhichyabadself.

:cool:

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I am somewhat confused, however, due to sometimes contradicting statements. From what I have gathered, it is important to maintain the diaphragm in an expanded state while releasing air/singing? Is this true?

the diaphragm is a dome-shaped muscle much like an inverted soup bowl. it drops down when you inhale and return upwards when you exhale.

ideally, you want to maintain expansion in the belly, ribs and back and prevent the diaphragm from returning to it's exhaled state too soon. this way the air is compressed (appropriately) and used more efficiently and less quickly. i like to use the term "suspend the breath."

the compressed air is particualarly needed for example, powerful high notes because you have to meter the air into a much smaller hole in the vocal folds..(highly simplified explanation).

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Thanks VIDEOHERE, I will keep that piece of advice then, and make an effort to suspend the breath, as you say (I really like your term for it)

I think I understand what you mean about the "metering" of air, that's really cool how much control can really be brought into singing!

I was curious if you had a moment (as well as anyone else who reads this, the more the merrier!) to take a look at a 10-second recording I made of the "ng" voice you taught me, I think that I found how to get pure head voice, since I can make my voice thin out in the "ng" as I go higher, allowing to sing much higher without strain. I tried a 2-octave siren in the "closed" ng sound, and ended it with an attempt at "opening" the "ng" so I would have a somewhat fuller sound. However, I am unsure if this is perhaps just a supported falsetto, or if I have indeed found my head voice. Here's the link:

http://www.purevolume.com/JohnGalt81922

Thank you so much for explaining this things to me!

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Thanks VIDEOHERE, I will keep that piece of advice then, and make an effort to suspend the breath, as you say (I really like your term for it)

I think I understand what you mean about the "metering" of air, that's really cool how much control can really be brought into singing!

I was curious if you had a moment (as well as anyone else who reads this, the more the merrier!) to take a look at a 10-second recording I made of the "ng" voice you taught me, I think that I found how to get pure head voice, since I can make my voice thin out in the "ng" as I go higher, allowing to sing much higher without strain. I tried a 2-octave siren in the "closed" ng sound, and ended it with an attempt at "opening" the "ng" so I would have a somewhat fuller sound. However, I am unsure if this is perhaps just a supported falsetto, or if I have indeed found my head voice. Here's the link:

http://www.purevolume.com/JohnGalt81922

Thank you so much for explaining this things to me!

my pleasure john...glad i can help...like i said, it reinforces my own knowledge.

falsetto is so tricky to explain john, so many differing opinions makes it very confusing.

some think it's synonymous with head voice, some not, some think it's a seperate register, some not.

but a test you can use to pretty much tell whether or not you are phonating in absolute falsetto is when you sing in absolute falsetto it's pretty hard to increase volume or note longevity, because you're allowing the air to escape (there's no or very little vocal fold closure so the air rushes past deflating you of air rapidly. if you are in true adducted head voice, there's fold closure, and therefore resistance to the air pressure.

the real beauty about the "ng" is you can lean or press into the sound a bit without straining because the 'ng" sound diverts the sound into the upper part of the voice (where it needs to be for high notes)....pinch your nostrils while phonating 'ng" and you'll see what i mean.

this directs tension away from the throat and helps build muscle memory. this is an excellent, excellent exercise.

please watch tony's (vocalpower's) awesome video on the "ng" topic....then resend after watching this. listen to the connection and the little bit more lean he's using.

particularly between 1:24 to 1:45.

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Hey VIDEOHERE,

Well on one hand I feel like it's pretty easy to maintain longevity in the voice that I wasn't sure about, but that was pretty much as loud as I could sing with rasping or losing that sound/ease. In addition, I noticed that after a prolonged amount of time spent singing in this voice type, I am basically unable to "access" the classic, breathy falsetto. I tried to phonate "ng" while pinching my nostrils, but I think I may have misunderstood how to do this. I took my thumb and index finger and closed off my nostrils, but I was pretty much unable to make any sound whatsoever :P

Also, I watched the segment you mentioned and tried a series of sirens with the connection, and I uploaded the last one that I did, but it feels slightly strained. Is this normal, or am I pushing beyond my limit? Thanks!

http://www.purevolume.com/JohnGalt81922

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but I was pretty much unable to make any sound whatsoever

That was to be expected, considering the 'ng' sound is basically a closing of the back of the mouth, directing all the sound and airflow to the nose :)

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well honestly i can see the hate for falsetto into fullvoice singing and lipbubbles... But usually these stuffs work wonders when dealing with guys who pulls to much chest or really high tenors who just want to strengthen to get more notes above high C.

But for the majority of people yes the reward is not worth the time spent...

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Thanks for your posts Ronron and Jens. If you don't mind, I have a question for each of you, I am slightly confused:

To Ronron: Does this mean that when the exercise is done that no sound is supposed to be made? I tried it today but I was unable to keep my vocal cords in the same position when I would pinch my nostrils while holding a note.

To Jens: Do you mean that it is possible to "grow out of" falsetto into a more powerful voice after using it for a long enough time?

Thanks!

Also, I have uploaded a recording of what I think is my chest and middle voice, followed by I am not sure what. I can "extend" my chest voice from middle C up to F#4 with the "ng" sound (thanks to VIDEOHERE), accessing what I am assuming is my middle voice. However, any notes above that do not feel as easy as F#4 and below, so I am assuming this is where my second break is? I tried to "thin out" my voice some more to sing higher, but I found that it is whiny and unstable, and breaks into what I think is vocal fry. I would greatly appreciate if some of you guys on here could take a listen and tell me what it sounds like to you. Thanks!

Link to clip: http://www.purevolume.com/JohnGalt81922

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