Cornell.. what is going on here?!

[MB20]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cS2QzFRQbM&feature=related

This just tore my face off so I thought this was worth a post! wondered if anyone could break down a bit of technique here?

[VideoHere]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cS2QzFRQbM&feature=related

This just tore my face off so I thought this was worth a post! wondered if anyone could break down a bit of technique here?

just my take (a vocal god to me)

a lot of vocal training by ron anderson

a lot of practise

ability to hold back breath pressure up high (listen, and you'll hear how his onsets are so controlled) while twanging and resisting diaphragm relaxation. placing the notes to achieve the best resonance. wide open relaxed throat.

what else, an awful lot of vocal exercises...lol!!!

[Robert Lunte]

Chris Cornell spent his early days training with Maestro David Kyle in Seattle, WA... He is from Seattle. Ron Anderson teaches speech level concepts doesnt he? I dont think your going to get this kind of head tone formant and distortion with that.

[akarawd]

One thing I notice is that he barely touches on consonants.

Also, he's got this "compressed" sound (vocally speaking , not mixing-wise) but there's no strain in his breath, it's all one straight line.

I find both of these elements to be of paramount importance.

[PopVlad]

Hey akarawd,

What you've said is something I've been trying to get my head around for awhile.

I tend to literally "slam" into the consonants, which messes up my onset.

Are there any tips you could give me to rectify that? Any exercises, maybe?

[akarawd]

PopVlad, I've got the same problem too... I try to concentrate on the vowels after the consonants,

sort of using a fraction of the consonants just to convey the word, not to actually sing them.

In other words, I try to use their main body sound but not their attack.

Apparently, speaking like that sounds completely ridiculous but it works for singing.

However, I'm an amateur learner and I could be wrong, so if somebody can shed a bit of light guys, it'd be great.

[VideoHere]

cornell "resides" in a heady placement for that song....never letting the tone constrict or drop down into the throat.

from what i hear checking out several of his live videos, he's working (expertly) with the natural thinner sound beam these high notes produce and letting them drop back and up while applying twang to acheive his ring (singer's formant). his skill is in his vowel tuning and not blowing a lot of air (support). this is really not tremendously difficult to produce you just have to work at it a lot to strengthen it.

you cannot afford to let up on the tone once it's launched. from the time he begins a phrase till the time he ends it the support of the tone has to be consistent and strong. practice it starting with a light to medium intensity and each month try to strenghen it and it will develop more and more as the years go on.

also, note how some videos he sings it less intensely than others.

[MB20]

Is he in a head tone or a reinforced falsetto for those high notes?

[ronws]

Head voice. Reinforced falsetto is an oxymoron, a bull&^*% term made up by people who don't have a clue as to what they are talking about. Sorry, that may have seemed harsh. My BS tolerance seems to be set on low, this evening.

[jonpall]

Wasn't the term reinforced falsetto made up by Jamie Vendera or Jim Gillette? But regardless of who made it, my understanding of it is that is a very twangy head voice with very light sound colour and very little body to it. So that would make it a type of head voice, I guess. Personally, I don't really use that term, but I understand it. Same goes for many other vocal terms. Gotta call these things something.

[ronws]

Good point, jonpall. I think I will call it "goosenfrabe."

(That's from the movie, "Anger Management." It's such a cool word and rolls right off the tongue.)

[srs7593]

I saw this thread and just had to try it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-4pdpmhL3E&feature=channel_video_title

I tried...

The high 'd5's and 'c5's and 'f5' at the end are all way up in my head, I think they are when Cornell does it. the 'a4's and lower are in mixed and I have only just figured out how to get the overblow rasp in mixed voice.

I probably need to round my embouchure a bit but I think my placement is correct. I also need to hold everything out some more. I was pretty relaxed while I was singing this even if I don't look it. I have trouble holding still .

Cornell doesn't really sound like anyone else. And my voice will probably be brighter and more grating than his no matter what I do. The sandpapery rasp is almost always present in my high mixed and head voice.

[ronws]

Then you did it right. Those notes should feel like they are tickling the top of your skull. Anything feeling like it's in your throat or mouth is the surest way to vocal death.

Keep doing what you are doing.

[srs7593]

Head voice. Reinforced falsetto is an oxymoron, a bull&^*% term made up by people who don't have a clue as to what they are talking about. Sorry, that may have seemed harsh. My BS tolerance seems to be set on low, this evening.

I dunno if I completely agree with this. This soundgarden clip is definitely not falsetto of any kind, but I've heard some pretty strong mixed/head voice like falsettos. You can kinda 'twang' your falsetto up higher. Like 5th octave high usually.

Here's what I think may be an example. There's some EQ magic going on but I think that a large portion of this song is sung falsetto. Also this song/band is sick. I've been struggling to decipher the lyrics. I can't find them anywhere :(

[ronws]

There's some EQ magic going on but I think that a large portion of this song is sung falsetto. (

Sorry to say, but, wrong. Falsetto is a tone, not a register or part of a range. The guy is singing in head voice, almost the entire time. And just because the tone of his voice is fairly clean does not make it falsetto. Falsetto is characterized by loose fold adduction where more air is getting through than tone and usually has weak to no resonance. It is most often used in the part of range where one usually uses head voice coordination.

And originally the term falsetto most likely came from the old school notion that men were not supposed to sing that high and that the voice was a "false" voice. But modernly, falsetto is a tone, not a range or part of a range.

I remember Pantera from way before "Cowboys from Hell." They couldn't get radio airplay because their big song back then was "Rock Out with Your Cock Out."

[srs7593]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Vocal_fold_falsett_animated.gif

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Vocal_fold_animated.gif

???

[ronws]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Vocal_fold_falsett_animated.gif

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Vocal_fold_animated.gif

???

Yeah, let me go ahead burst that little bubble, too.

Wikipedia is founded by a guy who thinks that knowledge should come from users, rather than sciencetific investigation. Anyone may modify any wikipedia topic, whether they are qualified to do so, or not.

Case in point, there was an entry for a celebrity and his birthday, as reported by the original poster, was wrong. So, the celebrity inputed and corrected the mistake. But the moderator decided that the celebrity was wrong and changed it back to the incorrect birthdate. Now, do you still trust wikipedia?

Let me put it this way, ask any doctor or singing instructor that is worth their weight, including classical voice instructors about it. I mean, people who studied textbooks, not wikipedia.

Even worse, wikipedia is on board with this global warming caused by CO2. (It is not, by the way but that's from a scientific perspective, not the populist base of wiki.) You know what CO2 is? It's plant food.

Back when I went to school, in the 8th grade, we learned of a thing called photosynthesis. Sunlight creates a catalyst reaction in chlorophyll. The plant absorbs water and CO2 and creates oxygen and sap (sugar). At night, the process reverses. But Obama's EPA has declared CO2 a "pollutant" and wiki is on board with that.

Still trust wiki?

Early biographies written by people that knew them reported that Annie Lennox and Dave Stewart were married before the Eurythmics took off but divorced before they became big but worked together as professionals. Wiki? Not so. So, which is it? The testimony of the people themselves? Or the world according to wiki?

In the end, falsetto is not a register, regardless of what wiki says.

[ronws]

And, in the end, what I say may not matter.

Faith in some people overrides science. If you want to believe falsetto is a register, I can't stop you.

[joshual]

remember that on record, it's always the best takes.

For exemple, in this video, i did not had as much grit as in the studio version

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oNqR42P_7s&feature=related

Here i can also notice how he cover his sound, watch carefully his tongue ;-)

[ronws]

You mean, what you hear on the record or from the studio, with the auto-tuning, which is done to everyone, regardless, and the eq and effects, and different mics and placement, as well as the reverb quality of the room, in addition to stacked tracks (any one hear can do that. Duplicate your vocal track a few times and the sound will be "thicker") and the vocal track is often a composite of several tracks (comp'd vocals) is not what it really sounds like or is sung? That the live performance is the real deal?

Where have I heard that before?

Oh yeah, me. I said it, a few times.

[srs7593]

Yes, I learned at a young age from magic school bus that plants use CO2 in photosynthesis.

I also learned from magic school bus that Co2 is greenhouse gas.

Google greenhouse gases. Search through the catalog at your local public library if you don't like wikipedia.

Buuuut this is a vocal forum. The description of falsetto in the gif makes sense in that it explains why the voice cracks, why falsetto is higher, why the phonation is weaker, and why singing falsetto does not stress the voice as much. Whereas your definition of falsetto doesn't do much explain any of these things. It seems to me that a 'loose fold adduction' or a loose fold anything for that matter would make the voice lower. Like a creaky voice.

[ronws]

Like I said, you have a faith. If you knew the actual response bandwidth of CO2, you wouldn't place so much faith in wikipedia. I dare you to do the same but also google Prof. Linzen of MIT. Lord Christopher Monkton, viscount, and science advisor to former Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher. I have his email and could give it to you. But that is another forum and another topic.

"My" definition of falsetto? Well, that's actually back up by pretty much any legitimate vocal instructor from the early 1900's onward, who are suprisingly enough, not resourced in the precious "wikipedia." People that knew what they were talking about before wikipedia came along. Thats' where I get "my" definition of falsetto. But hey, you've got wikipedia. That beats everyone else's kowledge, right? "If it's on the internet (or more specifically, wikipedia), it must be true."

We're getting nowhere and you already know it all, so there's nothing I can add.

[ronws]

Don't worry, Raphael, I'm out of this one.

[srs7593]

I mean I can sing in a head voice that sounds like falsetto...

[joshual]

Please stop arguing With technical terms... This is not what the topic is about!