I stopped thinking about placement, and now I'm singing great?

[GuitarLord]

Hey,

so for the whole last year, after I learned to breathe properly, I was learning placement. I tried every known technique know to learn it - chest/mix/head, twang, singing into soft palate, singing in the mask, forward placement etc etc... and all that thinking didn't helped me at all.

So few days ago I decided to trash all that thinking about placement, stop thinking about it all together, and concentrate only on proper breathing.

I must point out that I sing mostly popular music, like rock.

After I stopped thinking about placement/resonance, and concentrating only on good diaphragmic breathing, I made more success then with any of placement techniques. It gave me freedom in singing that I didn't have before.

So is there a chance that learning placement/resonance can be disadvantage. Can it somehow stop you from doing it all naturally with proper breathing.

Or maybe if you sing styles like rocks, singing into the mask and similar concepts don't go. I will mention singers like: Chris Cornell, Mike Patton (Faith No More), early U2 stuff ... I sing their songs better when I don't think about placement at all, only think about breathing. If I try to sing it with mask placement, or any similar, it will stop me from singing that notes full and clear.

Thoughts?

[Billy Budapest]

My thought GL is that I'm nearly with you. I've been plagued by voice problems for the past season. This after hundreds of lessons, hundreds of hours of going through singing programs, and hundreds of gigs. I've been singing forever and still have issues that just come out of nowhere and derail my gig.

When I don't think about singing and my throat, things go so much better for me. The second I start worrying about it, I'm screwed. I'm not saying 'don't study'. But definitely QUIT THINKING WHILE SINGING.

=)

I wish I could do this...

[D.Starr]

I kinda like this concept of just working on breathing. I suppose it is a vital role in singing, I find it can sing fine in my range but as soon as I hit mix/passaggio it goes to shit. Maybe because I don't focus on support and pushing waaay too much up into my throat.

I get myself so frustrated with trying to learn curbing it really is getting me down. Think I'ma go and find a few tips and ricks for breathing and practice for a month or so and see if it helps.

[jonpall]

Singing is a lot about learning what NOT to do.

[JoshJ25]

Singing is a lot about learning what NOT to do.

Mind compiling a list? LOL!

[Robert Lunte]

Hey,

so for the whole last year, after I learned to breathe properly, I was learning placement. I tried every known technique know to learn it - chest/mix/head, twang, singing into soft palate, singing in the mask, forward placement etc etc... and all that thinking didn't helped me at all.

So few days ago I decided to trash all that thinking about placement, stop thinking about it all together, and concentrate only on proper breathing.

I must point out that I sing mostly popular music, like rock.

After I stopped thinking about placement/resonance, and concentrating only on good diaphragmic breathing, I made more success then with any of placement techniques. It gave me freedom in singing that I didn't have before.

So is there a chance that learning placement/resonance can be disadvantage. Can it somehow stop you from doing it all naturally with proper breathing.

Or maybe if you sing styles like rocks, singing into the mask and similar concepts don't go. I will mention singers like: Chris Cornell, Mike Patton (Faith No More), early U2 stuff ... I sing their songs better when I don't think about placement at all, only think about breathing. If I try to sing it with mask placement, or any similar, it will stop me from singing that notes full and clear.

Thoughts?

No, absolutely not. There is absolutely no chance that learning placement and resonance can be a disadvantage. What makes you think that when you were singing well, you didn't have placement and resonance? I can assure you, that you most certainly did have placement and resonance when you were singing well just as sure as you were breathing the air around you. When your not singing as well, as you describe, its because you probably don't have the best resonance you could produced and most assuredly, you don not have good placement! Your placements are likely "shallow", not deep enough or early enough into the head voice.

When you only focus on your respiration, its helping you to get more balance on all your singing components. What you are doing is a good idea and helpful, but don't conclude that your "respiration" focus doesn't also have re-adjusted, balanced resonance and placement as a result of your respiration. When you balance your respiration, you will also balance your resonant placement. These formant package components are all intertwined, you move one, the other has to be calibrated as well. One balanced component in your formant package and others will become more balanced as well. Like cogs in a clock.

I really do not know what a "Placement Technique" is. I have never heard of such a thing, I do not think it exists. All singing has placement as a fundamental requirement. I suspect you mis-understand what placement means. Placement roughly means, where the resonant production is sitting.

Lastly, you mention "mask placement". You can resonant more forward in the "mask" and that would be one form of resonant placement, however, what you need to understand is that you can also have resonant placement that is leaning back, more to the head voice and THAT is what your respiration focus is creating. So I suspect you think your eliminating resonant placement, but in truth, your actually enhancing it.

Hope this helps...

[Robert Lunte]

My thought GL is that I'm nearly with you. I've been plagued by voice problems for the past season. This after hundreds of lessons, hundreds of hours of going through singing programs, and hundreds of gigs. I've been singing forever and still have issues that just come out of nowhere and derail my gig.

When I don't think about singing and my throat, things go so much better for me. The second I start worrying about it, I'm screwed. I'm not saying 'don't study'. But definitely QUIT THINKING WHILE SINGING.

=)

I wish I could do this...

Billy, the primitive instinct to Belt or shout... is very strong. You have to train out of that instinct. But when your thinking about vocal technique details when your performing, it creates noise in the mind that can easily default back to primitive belt-like shouts... and you know well, where that leads you? Another choky, shouty least common denominator.

By drilling slow and controlled sirens, you will both, learn how to slip into a calmer, meditative state that will silence the mind and... train the coordination and strength you also need to really win the bridging game and develop the strength to lock and load some intrinsic anchoring.

I can solve your problems for you, or at least show you the path to forever eliminate this challenge in approx. four lessons. There are a lot of mediocre training out there Bill that lacks on the hard stuff... You just need someone that really knows how to do it, and has a system to show you how to help you.

R

[Billy Budapest]

Speaking of the slide... I have a heckuva time with it. I end up going to a reinforced falsetto, which ain't good.

[VideoHere]

well folks i have to say that keeping a "really" relaxed "really" open throat (the yawn/re-yawn thing) has been the best thing that has ever happened for me. i have trained myself to configure my mouth to open up the back of the throat and plant the tongue down behind the teeth every time i open my mouth.

i make sure i leave a big space in the back of the throat at (almost) all times.... like someone shoved a c-clamp into my mouth..lol!!!

works for me anyway.

[random1destiny]

Robert, I'm curious, would you say forward 'mask' resonance and leaning back 'head' resonance should both be maximized at all times, or should you abandon the mask resonance and only focus on the leaning back head resonance as you get higher? In other words, will too much mask resonance be counterproductive in the higher ranges? Or only right at the bridge, and then you bring the mask back in higher up?

[Ronron]

Vocalizing is when you think about everything, including placement and resonnance. Singing is when you absolutely want to not think about anything like placement and resonnance, because, first, we can only think about so many things at the same time, and when you think and sing at the same time, second, you only get in the way of your body which can do wonderful things when you leave him be, and third, that's exactly why we train. The more I think about my throat the more I constrict.

[Billy Budapest]

Vocalizing is when you think about everything, including placement and resonance. Singing is when you absolutely want to NOT think about anything like placement and resonance...

THIS

[ronws]

That's why I follow the KISS method. No, not the band, the acronym. KISS = Keep It Simple, Stupid.

Lunte hit on the key point. When a note is resonating powerfully, it is, be default, in its correct placement. Physics, physics, physics. Science. When a note is properly resonated, it doubles back on itself, creating a tone at twice the amplitude, creating a remarkable decibel increase. And decibel increases is logarithmic, not linear. That is, the volume increase is astounding, with the proper resonance. And the mind does its own volume control. When the note sounds loud enough, to your brain, it regulates the breath pressure and adduction. I know I sound like a broken record. My bad ...