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Really shouty Curbing/Mix voice and raspy too!

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Ultimecia
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Hi everyone, so I have a problem with my curbing/mix ... I can sing quite well in my medium-low range but once I try to go a bit higher my voice goes like, all over the place LOL ! It becomes really shouty and raspy, and sometimes breathy too. And it starts quite low as I think it starts around D4 and sometimes even C4 ...

I tried multiple things but I can't seem to reduce the volume ... I'd like to keep that full tone, but I'd like to reduce the volume a lot though.

http://soundcloud.com/rorolebgbg/video-1-2#

So do you have any idea of what's going on ?

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Oops sorry ! Here's the good one :P

warm up, relax your throat and jaw, settle your tongue tip behind your front teeth, configure your mouth as if to yawn, and send over a 5 note scale on the "ah" as in hot vowel starting at a comfortable pitch.

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Ultimecia,

Are you using any program to practice?

From this clip, it sounds like your "setup" before producing the sound is incorrect - could be due to support, constrictions in the throat, or anything else.

Can you record a couple of lines from a song that you have difficulty with? Or a specific scale/ exercise..

Cheers

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Hey! Thanks everyone for your answers, it's really nice! :D

So here, I've recorded like 30 seconds of I'm Yours by Jason Mraz, it's not a vocally challenging song but for me, it is. I'm sorry, it really sounds bad but I just wanted to show the problem and not really tried to do something musical.

If you want me to do anything else, please ask! :D

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Hey! Thanks everyone for your answers, it's really nice! :D

So here, I've recorded like 30 seconds of I'm Yours by Jason Mraz, it's not a vocally challenging song but for me, it is. I'm sorry, it really sounds bad but I just wanted to show the problem and not really tried to do something musical.

If you want me to do anything else, please ask! :D

what is your nationality?

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French, that's why I have such a terrible accent, I'm sorry ! :lol:

that's okay, but i.m.h.o., this is a more challenging song than it appears.

i would say per this particular song, the breath timing has to worked out so your inhalation is silent. figure the precise times to take a quick breath..

can you send that "ah" scale i was asking about?

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Yeah sure, no problem, I'll do that tomorrow because it's kinda late here so I don't wanna wake anyone up haha.

But you asked me to configure my throat as if I wanted to yawn, what's the point of doing that ? Doesn't it just lower the larynx ? Teach me :D

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It becomes really shouty and raspy

Means you are moving too far from the center of curbing. Try using the vowels I as in sit, UH as in under, O as in woman. Make sure you're using the hold, it will feel as if something is holding your larynx in place, and it will sound plaintive like you're moaning/crying. The hold helps you stay to in curbing and keep the volume down. To find it, work on exaggerated moans.

and sometimes breathy too.

You need more breath support (holding back the air) as you get higher. You aren't using enough support, so there is too much air passing thru your vocal cords. Also known as forcing! Please be careful singing in this range, until you get rid of the breathy sound.

For support, try to hold back the air, and feel your lower body kicking in. It's a fairly complicated process, I don't think I can explain it well enough. Maybe someone else can help you here...

Hope that helps, good luck. :)

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Yeah sure, no problem, I'll do that tomorrow because it's kinda late here so I don't wanna wake anyone up haha.

But you asked me to configure my throat as if I wanted to yawn, what's the point of doing that ? Doesn't it just lower the larynx ? Teach me :D

i say "a yawn" because of it's descriptive effectiveness. yes, it can help lower your larynx, (desirable at times) but more importantly, it helps open you up the back of the throat, not the mouth, the throat

try singing a simple "lah" at a comfortable place in your range with an open yawn configuration and without.

hear any diffference?

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But you asked me to configure my throat as if I wanted to yawn, what's the point of doing that ? Doesn't it just lower the larynx ? Teach me

To summarize quickly, it helps pulling the false vocal folds apart, and expands the space in the throat, so you get more resonnance (this is also known as keeping an open throat, and can also be achieved through imagining you really want to laugh, but can't, so you keep an inner smile or laugh). The open throat and the lower larynx are not necessarily inclusive, although your larynx will probably go down a little as your muscles will relax a bit more.

Since you're French, you can read this link, by Allan, aka chanteurmoderne :

http://allanwright.fr/2008/11/16/bossons-ensemble-semaine-1-la-gorge-ouverte/

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Actually, you being french explains something to me. Too much airflow. Other vocal instructors of of previous times noted the nasal sound and breathy quality in french speach. And you have a little too much air flow at such a low pitch. Higher, yes, your airflow would be good. Most people have a problem adducting at high pitch. I think you have that problem at low pitch. It sounded like you were running out if air. That is, your pitch was good but too much air was getting through.

The larynx doesn't need any particular position. It should float freely and respond to whatever the needs are. Any rigid position will induce strain. Time for a nasty little tidbit from anatomy. The muscle at the root of the tongue is attached to the same muscle that controls the front of the larynx. Yawning for some is like a slight smile for others, point being to get the soft palate to open up so that notes can rise up into the head cavities and find their proper resonating space. Left alone and without thinking about it, a slight drop in the jaw and letting the back of the tongue hump a little allows a high note to rise up into the head cavities, channelling it, so to speak.

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Thanks everyone for your answers once again! :D

So actually, I've always been aware that I had to keep an open throat but I never really got it. I always tried to do the yawning sensation but it never worked because I was literally YAWNING, so the thing that happened was that it just lowered my larynx without really "opening" my throat and caused even more constriction. I now got the idea thanks to Allan's video I had watched 2 years ago when I first started to train, but didn't understand anything haha. Now that I understand everything more, I finally got the idea of keeping an open throat. I'll just try and keep doing it and see how it goes.

Also VIDEOHERE I've recorded the audios you wanted me to do, but my camera won't connect to my computer anymore, I think the usb plug is dead actually ... Yaaay ! :(

I'll try to record another one this this week-end with my pc coming back from my brother's house. :)

Oh and also! I'm aware that I'm an overblower, I'm currently working on it too, I know that I have to hold back my breath and I totally got the idea but I tend to forget to apply it to my lower register, that's why I have too much air in my lower register and ok airflow in my higher one. Gotta work on that!

Thanks a lot !!! :D

Edit : Oh I have a question, how am I supposed to apply a hold while keeping an open throat ? Because the description of the hold (ex : the sensation you get when lifting something heavy) is the exact opposite as what an open throat is supposed to be in my mind .. Anyonce can guide me? :D

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Edit : Oh I have a question, how am I supposed to apply a hold while keeping an open throat ? Because the description of the hold (ex : the sensation you get when lifting something heavy) is the exact opposite as what an open throat is supposed to be in my mind .. Anyonce can guide me?

This boggles my mind some too. But actually, I think it IS feasible somehow.

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This boggles my mind some too. But actually, I think it IS feasible somehow.

yes, you've got to take the brunt of the hold with your lower core..you can have a relaxed open throat, but highly adducted folds for the pitch you need.

the trick is to not allow or involve the throat for vocal fold adduction. fold adduction must occur without any throat involvement and it takes time to develop. not sure if i made that clear...follow?

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I see, that's why I had this weird noise in my voice in curbing, because I was involving muscles in my throat to adduct my vocal folds, I get it. I'm gonna work on my open throat in neutral, and then when I feel like it's almost an automatism I'll start working on my curbing ! Does anyone have advices on how to apply the hold without constricting, involving the throat ?

Thanks a lot VIDEOHERE, I'm already feeling the improvment with the tone, resonance and control on my voice, that's great! :D

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I see, that's why I had this weird noise in my voice in curbing, because I was involving muscles in my throat to adduct my vocal folds, I get it. I'm gonna work on my open throat in neutral, and then when I feel like it's almost an automatism I'll start working on my curbing ! Does anyone have advices on how to apply the hold without constricting, involving the throat ?

Thanks a lot VIDEOHERE, I'm already feeling the improvment with the tone, resonance and control on my voice, that's great! :D

support and practise. happy to help, but i'm no help when it comes to those modes....lol!!!

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This boggles my mind some too. But actually, I think it IS feasible somehow.

Working on false fold retraction will give you something "concrete" to work with. If you breathe like a creepy telephone "stalker" you'll hear the false folds coming together. Practice inhaling/exhaling with that "heavy breath." Then, slowly work on making the inhale/exhale completely silent. It might/will take some localized effort to keep it quiet(you will probably make noise without even realizing it at first.) Once you get that, work on panting like a dog, but have it be completely silent. Once you get this(very real muscular sensation,) keep that sensation in the throat(open throat) and start applying it to singing.

This is something that will take a while to turn into a habit, but it is well worth it. The best part is that it can be worked on anywhere.

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When you speak or sing, you are holding back air without any special effort because, during adduction, the folds are only letting so much air through at a give time. In fluid dynamics, the pressure in your lungs is not all concentrated on the vocal folds. It is exerted everywhere. Even as you compress the abdominals to provide some pressure against the vocal folds, it is actually a side effect of the pressure increase you have created everywhere in that spongy bladder we call lungs.

One might say that glottal pressure is the pressure at the glottal chink, or opening of the vocal folds during the making of a sound. But the entire air pressure of the lungs is not concentrated there. But, by compressing with the abdomen, one increases pressure everywhere, including the glottis.

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