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to those just starting to train...


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Some more self-examination, which I usually go through when I talk to Bob. My mother and father divorced when I was 3. And I have had 3 step-fathers. And have moved numerous times, including the move from my birthplace of California to Texas. The only constant thing in my life is change and never been in one place for very long. The exceptions are living specifically in Dallas from 1987 to 2000 and living in the small town I live in near Sherman, Texas since 2000. Everything else is about being uprooted and moving on. You would think the life of a vagabond would suit me. But actually, I like having the same home to go to.

How much of that change in early life has affected me? I study a subject in depth to the point of obssession and then, move on. With the exception of music. It is central to my life, not only as an enjoyment and artistic expression but as an escape. When I sing a song, to my dog or a club with people in it, I am a rock star, not an electrician.

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ron, may i make a suggestion?

he is (believe it or not, i'm not a big fan of the band, but i respect this singer highly)

very skilled at vowel mods...expertly crafted for his particular voice on each note.

so here's the bitch notes.. for "run to the hills...run for your life"

g4,b4,c5,a4,.... g4,e5,c5,d5,a4,b4

the only way to hit those high notes on those words is to select a vowel mod. based on that pitch.

so, if you've got a b4, c5 with "to the" as an example...you need to hit those notes modified to ease the ascent into the pocket.

"to" changes to "tuh" get rid of the breath interrupting "t" of the "the" and use a "d" instead..so "the" becomes "duh."

up in the b4, c5, territory you'll have more success singing "uh" as in "put" or "look."

so here's the way i would start to play with it..

rohn tuh (breath) duh hehls

rohn fuh yuh lahee (drop the "f")

the tricky thing i learned from ken tamplin is when you're way up (b4 and up) and you need to hit those notes already modified correctly spot on.

he eases the "life" word for himself by getting it over to the "ee" and it may actually be more of an "ih." as in "8."

then he is really supporting well on top of all that. hope this helps.

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ron, may i make a suggestion?

the only way to hit those high notes on those words is to select a vowel mod. based on that pitch.

so, if you've got a b4, c5 with "to the" as an example...you need to hit those notes modified to ease the ascent into the pocket.

the tricky thing i learned from ken tamplin is when you're way up (b4 and up) and you need to hit those notes already modified correctly spot on.

So that is how I would sing it if I was studying KTVA, which you have recommended highly, among others?

Or, more accurately, was I not on pitch? I apologize for the distortion of the mic. I was singing from two feet away from the pop filter, which I place right in front of the mic, and I was still overloading the mic.

So, should I be studying KTVA above all others? Even above 4 Pillars? Or the classical authors and exercises I have been studying? (Just today, I was enjoying Fillebrown's 1/2 tone scales, 3rds, and 5ths.

In fact, the only place I slipped (and I know where it s) is when I was excited by the song and almost misplaced my resonance.

One of the reasons I chose this song was because I like it, it's a style I like, a style of singing I like. And I wanted to show what I am accomplishing with resonance, which I have not perfected but jonpall kept asking for a sample.

And I thought what better way than to show it on a song I have never done before? I've sang along with bits and pieces on the radio. But for this recording, I found the chords. Played once through to get the feel. Recorded once and misplaced resonance. Recorded a second time and botched some verses. So, what you hear is the third take. It would be too easy to do a song I always do. I wanted to stretch myself and highlight just the concept.

Perhaps, I have missed the mark. Which doesn't mean that what I have been saying isn't valid. It just means that I may have chosen the wrong song. Then again, since I am not following KTVA, what I do may be suspect or sub-par.

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So that is how I would sing it if I was studying KTVA, which you have recommended highly, among others?

Or, more accurately, was I not on pitch? I apologize for the distortion of the mic. I was singing from two feet away from the pop filter, which I place right in front of the mic, and I was still overloading the mic.

So, should I be studying KTVA above all others? Even above 4 Pillars? Or the classical authors and exercises I have been studying? (Just today, I was enjoying Fillebrown's 1/2 tone scales, 3rds, and 5ths.

In fact, the only place I slipped (and I know where it s) is when I was excited by the song and almost misplaced my resonance.

One of the reasons I chose this song was because I like it, it's a style I like, a style of singing I like. And I wanted to show what I am accomplishing with resonance, which I have not perfected but jonpall kept asking for a sample.

And I thought what better way than to show it on a song I have never done before? I've sang along with bits and pieces on the radio. But for this recording, I found the chords. Played once through to get the feel. Recorded once and misplaced resonance. Recorded a second time and botched some verses. So, what you hear is the third take. It would be too easy to do a song I always do. I wanted to stretch myself and highlight just the concept.

Perhaps, I have missed the mark. Which doesn't mean that what I have been saying isn't valid. It just means that I may have chosen the wrong song. Then again, since I am not following KTVA, what I do may be suspect or sub-par.

ron, all i did was offer a suggestion. i hope i didn't offend you. this is a seriously challenging vocal and i know from a lot of reading the vowel mods. are the key to unlock your voice up that high. you need to know i wasn't looking to throw you under the bus my friend.

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Ron - I just wanted to mention that I think the clip you posted was the best vocal I've heard from you. Seems like you've been working at it and it is showing. You've got a good connection with your upper range. I think what the guys are suggesting is that you could thicken your folds even more up in the head range...if you want to. Keep up the good work, and keep on posting.

Geno

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Thanks, guys, and in retrospect, my response probably seemed off, a bit. Which was not what I meant but don't worry, I screw up at work, every day, and that is no exaggeration. You would not believe the stress of the job and the shear amount of details I am respsonsible for and must seek from others. I kid you not, I have to think for the crews, the clients. And sometimes, it bleeds over.

So, when I ask for details here, it's a carry-over. But I do understand vowel mods and certainly they are part of Frisell's system. In fact, he mentions for tenors that the key to passaggio is a mod. And that the lowest part of the tenor range, below B4 should involve an inversion of what you do above B4 or even tenor C.

Thanks, Geno. And what I have been trying to say, in so many words, even to jonpall is that maybe that is the thickest my voice gets up top. And no, it's not from laziness or lack of trying. On the other hand, my concentration has been on resonance, more than a vocal effect or having the thick sound of chest up high. It has been more important to me to have volume and clarity up high. Save for a few rock 'n' roll raspy notes, now and then.

The vowel mods I could hear for myself in what I did on the last part with the ascending cadence as that it started out as aw and changed to ei (long i) and ended as short a, as in hat, on the highest note. All in the word "life." And yes, Geno, my voice feels more connected, in my own hearing, by approaching from a head resonance. That is, my tone doesn't seem to change as much except for when there is bite on the words, such as the main verses, as opposed to the more legato feel in the chorus.

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Hi all, .. getting back to original thread ...

Just wanted to add to this as current students doing various things at various stages (inc exams next week).

The importance of training over time and effort / focus & the singers inner will ... the time period for anyones training (how long have you been singing - have you covered the basics) is what Bob was hitting on in the 1st post.

There are a few trying too much too soon with the usual vocal results (there are some EXTREMELY common vocal faults posted that maybe a sticky could cover) ... The forum could really do with a few sticky's about it.

The reason for posting is a recent event for me.

We have recently had several concerts and the usual prep for exams ... One thing I do notice with loads of people here ... is the lack of will for exams or festivals .( I hear people singing, but not working for exam or theory) .. I have mentioned in previous post about discussions with older musicians and their discussions about if they could do it again they would cover the theory .... I do recommend a structured approach to training.

We all also have good times and bad, I have recently had one student, who has sung many festivals, concerts who totally car crashed a recent concert. Excellent for the "try" ..., but vocally!!! it was a car crash.

Tonight (lesson) we discussed said incident (mainly due to 3rd party comments ... another "singer"), and the fact that what it ... ACTUALLY ... takes (i.e. learning to sing), the effort, the ... what is actually takes to become a singer and the boring 3rd's, 5th's, scales, arpeggios .. etc ...

I see on the forum (as per bob's 1st post) are those for the quick fix, as I do occasionally do say, the learning how to sing is ... (won't post .. lol).

And yet tonight, same singer had an great vocal, FAR better than ever .. maybe due to the understanding that "she" did actually sing badly previously ... She is doing exams next week ... I am confident in her success,

don't look for a quick fix

don't spot train

learn the fundamentals , the basics, first

be patient and work hard

& have a structured aproach to learning (hence the syllabus's) and don't try to sing songs out of reach of current vocal ability (without help) ... This is another common fault mentioned on the forum (i.e. post saying (nicely), stay away from that song at the moment).

So people, heed Bob's post, Robert - if you can sticky the post - well worth it.

Stew

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Hey, Stew. I have said something similar. Don't do what your voice can't do. And effectively, in the beginning, stick with what you can do until progress brings you the ability to tackle another song. But I still think are some songs that are best suited for certain voices. Mainly because everyone sounds different.

I know we all have a larynx, lungs, and a head. And can produce similar tones at times. But there is still an individuality and thank goodness for that. If everyone sounded the same, i think that would be boring.

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