Example of my upper range - want to increase stamina and range

[johnnyD]

Hi,

I've reached a brick wall (or ceiling )

I can't get past d5 in my upper range without breaking into head/falsetto

Can my chest range be increased?

Here is an example of my range here:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/25995204/Children%20of%20the%20sea.aiff

Then after a while (with fatigue) I then repeat the song and notice my range is decreased

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/25995204/Children%20of%20the%20sea%20%2870%20mins%20later%29.aiff

Thanks in advance

J

[darkclaw3000]

i seem to be gettin this problem too.. if i try to stay on the same pitch as the previous one, i end up cracking, or using way to much pressure on supporting that everything just breaks apart..

would like to know whats the problem too..

[johnnyD]

Here is another example, where I go to D5:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/25995204/Man%20on%20the%20silver%20mountain.aiff

then as constriction/fatigue sets in I flick into head voice:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/25995204/Man%20on%20the%20silver%20mountain-%20flick%20to%20head%20voice.aiff

Any suggestions/comments are welcome

Thanks again

J

[Olem]

Hi, Johnny D.

You are singing in a mixed voice or curbing and in your first example you are doing it great IMO. I am no expert but i think there is a limit of how far you can sing with thick folds to get that chesty sound. To sing a D5 in curbing is very good. But continue practising and perhaps in time you will be able to reach an E5 and maybe also an F5. In your second example you are singing with a too low larynx i think and that is why u have difficulties reaching the high notes.

[ronws]

Johnny, you answered your own question. "Flicking into head voice." You should have been in head voice to begin with. The real work is not in carrying "chest" so high but in developing head voice to have the same volume and ring as chest voice. Which is the aim of classical teacher Anthony Frisell. It will take a while but you can develope a strong head voice and it's not all Frankie Valli, either.

I'm so freaking tired of people thinking that this is the only example of "head voice." But I love this song and Valli is astounding, by the way. Frankie is the one on the far left.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tWvYaiOmRs

And for those who think this was not rock and roll, bite my shorts. This is part of the beginning of rock and roll. Trust me, rock and roll was not invented only at the first big album of Nirvana.

This but one aspect of head voice and be thou not afraid. Embrace the headvoice, thine salvation.

In spirituus sanctum.

[johnnyD]

I know what youre saying Ronws. im still unsure how the thin fold or " head voice" can carry the "meaty" sound of thick folds. All head voice sounds thin to me, thats all. If I want that meaty sound like Dio or Dickinson has, I would need To have been blessed with their vocal anatomy, right? The realisation here is that the only way to pull off the chesty sounds without vocal damage or fatigue would be to emulate this effect in head voice.problem is, Ive yet to hear anyone do this, thats all.

[Olem]

Johnny D, from what i hear in your first clip you are almost there to have the Dickinson/Dio sound. You just want to be a little "meaner", add a little bit of rasp with a little more effort in your support and twang and i´ll think you will have the sound you are after. If you are familiair with CVT, complete vocal technique, i think you want to be just between curbing and overdrive to create that rasp. Dickinson has less rasp than Dio, usually, and Dio is a little dopier/darker sounding than Dickinson. Try an "uh" as in "hungry", add volume by a stronger support and twang and you will get there, at least that´s how i do it. To get the twang raise the back of your tongue up to your molars but don´t forget to open your throat and lower the larynx a little. Search here for topics on "yawning sensation", "twang", "meatier sound" "open throat" "support" and so on.

Ps i am no teacher or expert.

Good luck

[johnnyD]

I've just been experimenting with the head voice as Ronws suggested and also using those tongue exercises that vocal wisdom showed on video. I've found that a great way to warm into the chest notes is to first sing in head voice. Then when I go back to chest, my throat and breathing seem to behave themselves better???? I kept my larynx neutral to high and added some more 'curb' with some 'cry'.I have now consistently been reaching chest D5 and now (just tonight) pulled an E5 and an F5 in chest, albeit a little stretchy on the F5

I think I might be on the verge of controlling my voice, by virtue of combining some of the tips from this site.

From a performance perspective, I can sing all night as long as I stay under C5, but once I go above C5, then for every note above, I need 10-15 minutes break before I can go back to trying them again.

Is this safe? Is the analogy similar to muscle reps. I mean now that I know the notes are there then do I just keep gradually poking up there with adequate rest to build stamina??

[gno]

You've got to be carefull when extending your range. Once you learn how to sing up there it is easy to "will" your voice and "make" your CT muscle stretch the folds even more. You are in somewhat of a muscle building phase, so it is important to let your muscles rebuild - at night while you sleep. This is from my own experience when I learned how to sing above C5 - I pushed too much too fast and strained myself. I then took a very "metered" approach and didn't have a problem expanding another octave, but it took a couple weeks.

Some people will say to go up to your highest note which feels totally relaxed (in your larynx), and then go one 1/2 step higher - one time. Do not attempt that note again for the rest of the day. The next day try it again - once. If you feel totally relaxed you can go for the next note. However it may take several days before the new high note feels totally relaxed. You may even go backwards a half step. That's ok - respect the signals your body gives you and just reset to the 1/2 step lower. Do Not try to always make yourself acheive yesterday's highest note.

Make sure that you use a lot of breath support when attempting the high notes. If you don't, you can strain yourself with simply lack of breath pressure.

Actually, it is the best to work with a teacher or use an instructional program.

[johnnyD]

Cheers for the advice. Im probably feeling my way (carefully) through, since in the past i have blown out my voice too many times through over working the high notes. Interestingly, though, this time around, all the usual tension is not anywhere near as bad. The other thing ive noticed, from watching Dio and Dickinson, is they sing close to the mic, whereas i usually perform with it six inches away and thus tend to shout and overwork my voice.Yes im thinking of getting some lessons with Ken Tamplin, or the cvt course. I think aesthetically, he seems to have the sound Im trying to develop.

[ronws]

I know what youre saying Ronws. im still unsure how the thin fold or " head voice" can carry the "meaty" sound of thick folds. All head voice sounds thin to me, thats all. If I want that meaty sound like Dio or Dickinson has, I would need To have been blessed with their vocal anatomy, right?

To an extent, yes. And some people absolutely hate it when I say that if you want sound like a certain singer, you need same physical structure that they do. Oh, lordy, does that bring great wailing and gnashing of teeth. Yes, you can do similar sounds to another singer, within reason.

But I am still waiting for Steve Perry to sing the original Broadway role of Caiaphas (a deep bass) in "Jesus Christ, Superstar."

You say that all head voice sounds thin to you. Thin, compared to what? Or were you thinking of a certain singer? And how would that singer be the standard by which we should all be measured?

Just odd questions I had in my mind.

[johnnyD]

Aesthetically speaking, i prefer chesty tones (Dio, dickinson etc.,) to head tones (plant, Buckley etc.,), so I guess its more of a personal preference really. Thats not to say I dont enjoy the heady tones, its just not a direction i want to take at the moment.

[ronws]

Aesthetically speaking, i prefer chesty tones (Dio, dickinson etc.,) to head tones (plant, Buckley etc.,), so I guess its more of a personal preference really. Thats not to say I dont enjoy the heady tones, its just not a direction i want to take at the moment.

Fair enough. And you have done well to define your goal. If you want to sing like Dio, you might want to consider studying the french horn. According to Dio, he never had lessons and learned what he knows about breath and resonance from playing the french horn. Of course, some people would call him a liar and "just know" that he must have studied voice from someone.

Bruce Dickinson taught himself from Lilli Lehmann's book, "How to Sing," which approaches from head voice with minor adjustments at each note. How do I know? I've read her book twice and I have seen several interviews of Bruce, as well as his own words in a book of interviews. Of course, others will say he had lessons from someone, somewhere, essentially calling him a liar.

I can't help that.

Bruce says he warms up 1 hour to 30 minutes before showtime, humming to himself, finding his resonance. His words, not mine. So, I will leave it to others to call him a liar.

I only mention these things if you care to know how those two singers thought about what they did and what their approach was.

[johnnyD]

I played trumpet professionally, actually and understand the breathing under the embochure required. Funnily enough, as a trumpet player, I didnt master the higher notes (ie F above high C), until I changed my mouthpiece. So I'm wondering if I need to swap my vocal folds ha!

Anyway, I've just bought Ken Tamplins first course DVD to see how things work from his perspective... still waiting for the download. I think at worst I'm hoping to be able to fix up some breathing problems at the higher notes and learn how to do more with less air. That's the idea anyway. Otherwise it's a whole different approach I guess.

Lilli Lehmann's approaching from head voice does resonate with me as I've noticed using the head voice for warm ups help. I've just downloaded Lehmanns book. Hey and lucky I noticed it's a free download on itunes bookstore,otherwise it's $35 for the paperback on Amazon.

[ronws]

My copy of Lehmann's book is on my Kindle, so I got it for just almost nothing.

I think what Dio was trying to allude to is that the voice is a wind instrument. And while full phonation is key, that is not where the strength is. The strength is in the breath and how the note is resonated. As you know, you create different notes by pressing the valves, which create different length resonating areas. In singing, you let the note reach the resonating cavity or cavities that best suit that note. With enough air to drive it. And yes, for most, getting some finer coordination over the "embouchre" of the folds takes some work. Not true muscle-building work, but muscle coordination work. (in my humble opinion.)