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remember when i first joined?

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hi folks,

remember when i first joined, i had to post in all caps because of my software (i couldn't help it) and you folks were always telling me to stop....lol!!!, and i kept reiterating that singing takes a lot of effort and how support plays such a role?

you know, i've been watching a lot of you tube vids lately and it seems like virtually every vocal instructor from rob lunte, to even vocal instructor brett manning, and several others are finally starting to say and teach what i was always saying from the day i joined....

watch some recent videos from these folks and you'll see they are gravitating more towards support, fold compression, and acheiving that stronger thicker sound .....remember how they were all saying to thin out up top, nice and light?...they aren't anymore.

building a pro caliber voice can be very hard work. some songs and singers are going to make you feel so challenged, and you simply cannot give up!

if you feel in your heart you can do it, if you work hard enough and make the sacrifices and dedicate yourself you will get there.

if you want to wail and nail these chesty-sounding power notes you are gonna have to work at it.

it's the transference of tension from the upper area (larynx, throat etc.) to the lower area (the core).

singing is not effortless and singing is in no way the same as speaking!

dante knows what i mean by "effort"...

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building a pro caliber voice can be very hard work. some songs and singers are going to make you feel so challenged, and you simply cannot give up!

Absolutely truth.

What more can I say:

An intense development consists of cyclic periods during which inspiration alternates with depression…

At the stage of inspiration you have an incredible power, energy and elation to work…you work your best until you push your willingness and energy to their limits so that you can’t put in more..

At the stage of depression, prompted by criticism, auto criticism or by the exhaustion of energy and understanding of one’s own mistakes you are overcame by anger, doubt but finally comes another re-organization of what you have already learnt… Then the stage of inspiration appears again… This is how development looks like…

The worst thing is when you reject all the criticism you receive and when you try and make oneself believe that nobody around is right….

My 3 cents

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In this context, one must always mention that singing should never ever hurt your throat. Throat effort is necessary but throat pain is a big no, because it's a quick path to losing your voice, temporarily and then completely.

But Bob, we need to hear your voice more often. I think I've only heard a couple of audio files from you. Don't be shy dude because you've got a killer voice. Also, it's good for all of us to get some critique so we know we're on the right path. How do YOU know you aren't constantly making the same minor errors over and over in your singing? Cheers!

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In this context, one must always mention that singing should never ever hurt your throat. Throat effort is necessary but throat pain is a big no, because it's a quick path to losing your voice, temporarily and then completely.

But Bob, we need to hear your voice more often. I think I've only heard a couple of audio files from you. Don't be shy dude because you've got a killer voice. Also, it's good for all of us to get some critique so we know we're on the right path. How do YOU know you aren't constantly making the same minor errors over and over in your singing? Cheers!

thanks very much. that means so much to me.

truth is, i don't. but i can feel things now i never could before and it acts to guide me or i can make adjustments. i will post though one day soon.

jonpall, you really seek near perfection, and i respect that. but i'm not singing to be near perfect, i'm just going for the sound and the feeling of the song. a strain or pull here and there is okay by me. i'm big into the sound, the feel, and the resonance.

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Don't get me wrong. I train to be able to sing perfectly, which I can't do yet, but when I perform, I don't shoot for perfection, nor do I look for it in the music I listen to myself. But it does take a LOT of fine tuning of vocal technique to be able to sing the types of songs I want to sing - Led Zeppelin, Aerosmith ... along with more mellow stuff, too. That's why I gotta train like a motherf#$er.

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Don't get me wrong. I train to be able to sing perfectly, which I can't do yet, but when I perform, I don't shoot for perfection, nor do I look for it in the music I listen to myself. But it does take a LOT of fine tuning of vocal technique to be able to sing the types of songs I want to sing - Led Zeppelin, Aerosmith ... along with more mellow stuff, too. That's why I gotta train like a motherf#$er.

don't you find after a while of training you start to self-correct just by feel and intuition?

you sound great to me man. you really pick tough songs which i can relate to.

to me guys like plant, tyler, mercury, (all great vocalists) not what i would call highly "technically proficient"...these guys are all blusey feel and great-sounding strain and guts.

in fact, there's nothing wrong with a little strain and omph, punch and scream here and there....lol!!!

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I agree largely but not fully on the self correction point :)

A couple of years ago I was all about singing with power and rasp, especially on high notes. But recently I got the goal to improve my underlying clean, non-raspy voice and stuff like Journey songs work well for that. My favorite singers are guys who have great technique but are PAST that and don't really care about technique.

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An excellent, EXCELLENT post! There is so much truth contained in this that it's worth reading several times to really let it marinate in your mind.

~~Dante~~

yes, excellent post..... i should have commented as well...trials and tribulations and a family even to this day that tells you who's better than you.

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I also want to add that I'm starting to believe that in order to sing a lot of high, raspy songs, your technique HAS to be close to perfect in order to have a long career. Not QUITE as much with clean singing. The reason is because with raspy, high pitched singing, it's so easy to switch into uncontrollable screaming with a bit too much pressure in the throat and a bit too much air - and it can be very hard to detect that you're doing it (until the day after when/if your throat is sore like hell). So that's why I'm aiming for perfect technique when I train but I'm willing to use it OR not when I sing actual songs that people are gonna hear, just as it fits me. I like singing with attitude more than anything, don't get me wrong, Bob. And the feedback I've received on my vocals from people on this forum in the past has been invaluable. That's why I'm recommending that you take the chance of getting hurtful comments and post more of your vocals here. You shouldn't fear it, though, because I've heard simply breathtaking vocals from you.

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What jonpall said.

A singer is naked before his/her audience (figuratively, usually.)

From the other side of the perspective, we are at our most vulnerable with our voice.

You can choose everything about your guitar, amp, effects processing unit.

You can have a drum set and change heads to suit the style of music, even add a second kick bass drum for heavy rock and metal.

But the voice is from your own body and that always feel so personal.

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