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distortion + vocal fry?

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NCdan
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So I accidentally discovered vocal fry last week. I think I subliminally realized that distortion just wasn't going to get me the screeching I was going for. I've been noticing that once I get so high it's a big strain to use distortion. It seems much easier to use vocal fry on really high notes, and while I haven't recorded this to try it out, vocal fry is sounding very similar to distortion on really high notes to me. In the attempt to transition from fry to distortion I think I've started accidentally mixing the two together. Am I hearing things or is this actually possible? Any insight will be appreciated.

:D

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Different people use different terms to describe things. We don't really know what you're talking about. If you were to say CVT distortion, some here would get you. If you were to say TVS distortion, others would understand. Etc. So could you please clarify a bit? If you're talking about CVT distortion, then you're pretty much wrong, because that type of rasp is usually easier on high notes.

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Different people use different terms to describe things. We don't really know what you're talking about. If you were to say CVT distortion, some here would get you. If you were to say TVS distortion, others would understand. Etc. So could you please clarify a bit? If you're talking about CVT distortion, then you're pretty much wrong, because that type of rasp is usually easier on high notes.

jonpall is right. my understanding of vocal fry as i know it occurs when you bring the folds together just enough so they start to rattle on a soft, low pitch. usually it happens well using an "ah" however as the voice warms up it can be a little harder to generate one. i actually use it to warmup the voice sometimes.

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jonpall is right. my understanding of vocal fry as i know it occurs when you bring the folds together just enough so they start to rattle on a soft, low pitch. usually it happens well using an "ah" however as the voice warms up it can be a little harder to generate one. i actually use it to warmup the voice sometimes.

Fry can be applied to most pitches I believe. It is usually associated with being low, because you naturally fall into it when you can't go any lower in your chest register, however, it can be added at will to most of your range (in CVT terms, creaking). It's good for warming up as it helps with initiating cord compression. The fry is almost like a half compressed state i suppose, which makes using it easier to transition between a state of rest and full cord compression. It does require quite a bit of finesse to be applied well, as anyone who has ever tried learning to fry scream will know. This is a great video for demonstrating the use of vocal fry technique as a distortion, and how even though it is a small sound, can be made to sound HUGE on a recording

skip to around 45 secs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vi9aRpPeJ_4

Vocal fry is mostly likely used in this case to refer to false cord activity.

I believe you are right, unless we hear an audio clip which demonstrates otherwise. I can't imagine any other distortion techniques being able to be used in conjunction with fry due to the fragile setup required to use it. You cannot use a lot of air with fry or you will hurt yourself. So any other distortion techniques which require more air than fry (which from my experience is all of them) cannot be applied simultaneously.

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Distortion = false fold distortion. Fry = decreasing air support. I'm confused because they almost seem to be opposites to me, that is, distortion seems to be an increase in pressure whereas fry seems to be a decrease in pressure (whatever that means.) I could've sworn that the two were starting to blur together after a while, though. But maybe it was just me.

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Fry is not decreasing air support. Fry requires a large amount of support because such little air is being released. If anything, more pressure is being held back during fry. Plus, distortion isn't necessarily solely produced by the false folds, unless you are talking about false cord screaming (grunt in CVT terms), which primarily uses the false cords. In my mind, these two can not be produced together due to the laryngeal configuration (stealing a term off Rob there i think...?!) required to achieve them.

However, an interesting video I stumbled upon a while ago claims you can do just that and also provides a demonstration. The scream in this video (to my ears) does sound like a combination of both fry and false cord distortion (grunt and creaking in CVT terms), which seems to rip my argument right apart! But without any technical explanation, it is not possible (for me) to ascertain if this is actually what he is doing.

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Fry is not decreasing air support. Fry requires a large amount of support because such little air is being released. If anything, more pressure is being held back during fry. Plus, distortion isn't necessarily solely produced by the false folds, unless you are talking about false cord screaming (grunt in CVT terms), which primarily uses the false cords. In my mind, these two can not be produced together due to the laryngeal configuration (stealing a term off Rob there i think...?!) required to achieve them.

However, an interesting video I stumbled upon a while ago claims you can do just that and also provides a demonstration. The scream in this video (to my ears) does sound like a combination of both fry and false cord distortion (grunt and creaking in CVT terms), which seems to rip my argument right apart! But without any technical explanation, it is not possible (for me) to ascertain if this is actually what he is doing.

When he says he's doing a fry scream, he's really using false vocal folds rasp or distortion as CVT calls it. As long as people understand each other, it doesn't really matter what they call it. But I've always found it MUCH more difficult to scream ON PITCH, rather than without any definite pitch as they do in death metal. So I find it a bit unfortunate how many scream tutorials there are on the net that are only about death metal screams. You click on them and find out that they only teach screaming without a definite pitch and then they usually teach it very badly.

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Again, I wouldn't call that vocal fry or creaking. That would be distortion (i.e. done by the false folds vibrating, not the true folds). And I also hear a bit of what CVT calls grunting which is kind of like barking like a dog on low notes and actually being a bit breathy (just on the deep screams).

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But I've always found it MUCH more difficult to scream ON PITCH, rather than without any definite pitch as they do in death metal.

YES! You are definitely right. Trying to sing notes with vocal fry has been extremely difficult. Vocal fry doesn't seem to want to work when singing low, and when I go up high as soon as I "pull back" to go into fry I start pulling chest--very annoying. I've found that once I get up so high that I have no choice but to use head or falsetto, vocal fry actually becomes pretty easy and I can even sing notes in fry without too much effort.

Anyway, back to my original question... Can you mix distortion and vocal fry? Are there any vocalists who sing mostly in a mix of fry and distortion? Thanks.

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Fry can be applied to most pitches I believe. It is usually associated with being low, because you naturally fall into it when you can't go any lower in your chest register, however, it can be added at will to most of your range (in CVT terms, creaking). It's good for warming up as it helps with initiating cord compression. The fry is almost like a half compressed state i suppose, which makes using it easier to transition between a state of rest and full cord compression. It does require quite a bit of finesse to be applied well, as anyone who has ever tried learning to fry scream will know. This is a great video for demonstrating the use of vocal fry technique as a distortion, and how even though it is a small sound, can be made to sound HUGE on a recording

skip to around 45 secs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vi9aRpPeJ_4

Again, I wouldn't call that vocal fry or creaking. That would be distortion (i.e. done by the false folds vibrating, not the true folds). And I also hear a bit of what CVT calls grunting which is kind of like barking like a dog on low notes and actually being a bit breathy (just on the deep screams).

I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you on this one! The example in the video above is vocal fry. All of the distortion is produced by the true folds, NOT the false. This is done through a very controlled breath release, using a minimal amount of air with the right amount of cord compression. The very edges of the cords are being used, and with not enough cord compression to create a note, the fry (creaking) sound is produced.

There is also absolutely NO grunt in that sound what so ever. A well executed fry scream can be trained to extreme lows to give the impression maybe of a grunting sound. However, the lower sounds like this are achieved through a manipulation of the vocal tract size, mouth cavity space and tongue positioning. Jamie Vendera gives a comprehensive explanation of this in his new extreme screaming series.

When he says he's doing a fry scream, he's really using false vocal folds rasp or distortion as CVT calls it. As long as people understand each other, it doesn't really matter what they call it. But I've always found it MUCH more difficult to scream ON PITCH, rather than without any definite pitch as they do in death metal. So I find it a bit unfortunate how many scream tutorials there are on the net that are only about death metal screams. You click on them and find out that they only teach screaming without a definite pitch and then they usually teach it very badly.

I do agree with you on this point. This scream seems to be a combination of grunts and distortions. But i do think it's important that people realise the distinctions to keep a cohesion so we all know we're talking about the same thing! I also think it is more difficult to pitch screams as essentially, you're doing 2 things at once; pitching a note and creating distortion, as opposed to just the latter. I have trawled through far too many poorly explained screaming tutorials and i feel your pain there! :P

Trying to sing notes with vocal fry has been extremely difficult. Vocal fry doesn't seem to want to work when singing low, and when I go up high as soon as I "pull back" to go into fry I start pulling chest--very annoying. I've found that once I get up so high that I have no choice but to use head or falsetto, vocal fry actually becomes pretty easy and I can even sing notes in fry without too much effort.

Anyway, back to my original question... Can you mix distortion and vocal fry? Are there any vocalists who sing mostly in a mix of fry and distortion? Thanks.

It think becomes easier to sing whilst using fry at a higher pitch, because you are using less cord mass, which makes the fry easier. However, the pitch of a pure fry is determined by the resonating spaces above the true folds, like the mouth. For using vocal fry on pitch i would check out Dan Tompkins, formally of TesseracT as of a few days ago. Going on CVT terms, then I would suggest you can mix the distortions.

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I don't claim to be an expert on this stuff but to me I hear the false fold vibrating. They have a certain noise that you can learn to recognize. I'm still not the best guy in the world at detecting that noise, I have to admit. But perhaps someone else could give their thought on this?

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I do appreciate that. I would say however, you seem to be very knowledgeable on the subject and certainly have, in my mind, some of the best distortion clips on this forum. If you achieve this sounds via another method, I would love to hear how you do it!

This is a little clip of me doing a fry screamed sound. I'm not very good at all, and unfortunately the mic is just my macs built in mic, which distorts due the overtones. This is 100% done by my true vocal cords.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/25229848/fry%20scream.mp3

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I contacted a friend of mine, who some of you know, who's a real master at detecting vocal modes and effects (don't think he's ever been wrong, actually) and he says that it's false fold distortion. Note that if you do this with the true folds, it will have a very similar sound. But now I'm more sure that that clip was the false folds at work. Cheers.

(And "grunt" in cvt is NOT the same thing as false fold distortion. Cvt would call false fold distortion simply "distortion". And true fold distortion would be called "creaking". "Grunting" is that low, almost breathy barking sound that death metal singers use a lot.)

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When talking about the video, are you referring to the first or second? because I completely agree that the second is achieved through use of the false folds. If you're talking about the first then I guess we'll have to disagree on that one! although I would be really interested to hear an example or to know how you create that sound using the false cords, because If you read/listen to any Jamie Vendera or Melissa Cross stuff, you would see that this particular sound is achieved through fry/creak. I agree that when you reach a level of proficiency with either of those two types of scream, it can be hard to tell the difference unless you hear them in an un-amplified state, but I still maintain that the first video is completely fry screaming/creak.

Would you be willing to post a clip of you doing this type of distortion with your false folds? It would help to compare the sounds.

I may have mixed up my terminologies there, apologies. Grunt, by people outside of CVT, is normally considered to be false fold screaming (as you have no doubt seen in the numerous youtube videos, saying to sigh heavily, bark like a dog etc) I appreciate that false fold distortion is not the same as grunt.

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I'm talking about the first. So we disagree :) . By the way, the friend of mine who is saying that this is false fold distortion is Martin Holms, which many of you know. He's the best guy I know at detecting modes and effects. I might record a clip of me doing this, although I'm no expert at death metal vocals. Ultimately, I don't think it matters THAT much what you call it and whether it's the false or the true cords, as long as you like the sound and can do it fairly easily and it doesn't hurt your throat. Anyone else want to chime in?

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