6 Basic Thinks You Should Know About Singing

[Ricard]

Hi, I always liked and learned people sharing their thoughts, so i would like to post a topic from time to time, and discuss and learn together:

Now a days, because of the competitive educational system and culture, many of us make always the same mistake: Jump the basics and try to do difficult things. So my first advise to anyone would be root your voice with easiness mastering the basics. It is a short cut!

When you are trying to sing a song, and doesn't sound so good, or you feel stuck, I bet you that you are forgetting one of this principles:

If you're straining, you're wrong. If you feel fatigue after trying to sing a song, you're wrong. If you're not enjoying it, you're wrong! The easiest way, is the right way. No matter if it's opera or death metal, the easiest way to produce the sound, is the right one!

Breath Properly: you should never forget that your voice is a wind instrument made 80% of air control, and the day you master breathing for singing, is the day that you became free of singing technique! Of course, even it should sound maybe too simple for many, I would like to add that this is a long term aspect. I recommend you always to start your practice with breathing exercises. For many reasons: 1. There is residual air stuck in your lungs you need to free before singing 2. It relaxes your muscles, and release the speaking tension 3. It stop your mental self-conversation and focus your mind 4. wake up your diaphragm 5. release the tension in the wrong-breathing muscles, like the abs .....etc

Posture: if you are tired, and you are singing seated with your back totally bent, you failed before start singing! A natural standing position would be enough to solve this.

Vocal range. If you don't know your type of voice, it is very easy to strain and do wrong coordination of muscles, so your voice will feel "unconquerable" and out of context. Neither I recommend to prejudge your vocal range, but pay attention. Your voice needs to make "changes" as you go upwards in pitch, if you don't know where this changes are, you're going to stumble sooner or later. Don't assume your voice type so soon, work on discovering it!

Mental/emotional attitude. If you don't have a strong self esteem, you aren't used to express yourself (whatever others may think), and don't have a strong believe that you can make it, then not even all the singing techniques together can really help you.

Practice makes perfection. Working hard from time to time is not the easiest way to learn. Your muscle memory works at its bests, when you practice everyday. It is better to sing 4 days a week 30min, than once a week 2 hours. For your body, it is not the same. Be constant, plan your milestones, and nothing can stop you to succeed!

If you underestimate one of this principles, it's going to make singing harder or impossible for you. The good news is that there is solution for any problem. I wish you the best with your practice!

Ricard

[ronws]

I agree with everything except for one. One does not "wake up" the diaphragm. For what feels like the millionth time, let me reiterate that the diaphragm is an autonomic inhalation muscle. You press air with your lower abdominals, not your diaphragm. Forever, amen, period, paragraph, new book. For God's sake, will someone please find a doctor to prove me wrong? Anyone? Hello? I hear only crickets chirping.

Other than that, you made some good points.

Carry on.

[Ricard]

Hi Ronws,

thanks for your reply. I want to learn to express in the best way.

Am I wrong when I say that the diaphragm is the muscle that "controls" the air while producing sounds, by resisting the abdominal muscles? And that when the diaphragm is collapsed upward and can no longer resist the exhaling abdomen muscles, then you are in a big trouble while singing?

I understand it is a controversial topic, because it is easily misunderstood as "pushing" and tension while singing. But the truth is that if you can control your breathing by allowing it, you have a very deep impact and control over your mind and body, and consequently to your singing. In the other hand, I understand that if someone use it wrongly, then would be better not to practice anything. Changing your breathing affect directly in your concentration, emotions and involuntary functions of your body.

Being fully aware of your breathing not only will improve your singing, but all the aspects of your life experience. This is something that has being studied for thousands of years and that means that it really works. And many people would agree with me that breathing exercises it is a fabulous way to learn to be aware of your breathing. I know it sounds simple, but making it real in your singing experience it is a very subtle and advanced work.

Thanks for your reply,

Ricard

[ronws]

Respectfully, the diaphragm is a muscle that is under autonomic control. It activates on inhalation, not exhalation. A conversation with any doctor would verify this. I am not a doctor.

Corrollary to Dante's question, how are you controlling the diaphragm? That is, how do you physically describe controlling the diaphragm?

[Ricard]

Hi dear friends,

Mr Rowns, thank you for make me realize that the expression "waking up" it is not really appropriated to the experience itself. On the other hand, a doctor also will tell you that you can't control your heart rate. But let me point that doctors have a lot of information and statistics, but they ignore a lot of things too. Knowing something is to have the experience of it, and I proved to myself many things that most doctors won't agree. I don't take seriously even myself =), so imagine how I take doctors.

You don't control this things with your effort, you control them with your attention. So, when I talk about breathing exercises, I'm not pointing to muscular training rather than consciousness of events and letting flow more energy. Most people have their normal breathing unbalanced, so when they go to singing exercises they just sing unbalanced. In my opinion this is a very advanced topic, because it's related to all your being. To make it simple, your emotions and your breathing are almost the same. Your emotions are the result of your thoughts, and your attention controls your thoughts.

In early stages, some classic breathing exercises (in terms of controlling it directly) I find them very useful. As you get consciousness of your breathing by doing this exercises, then you can try to get to the premium level: pure attention.

Ok, so let's go to action.

There are thousands of breathing exercises, but my favorite ones are from pranajama (yoga). First thing, you need to find your pulse (maybe in the neck, or your wrist). Then, you have to find a number of beats relatively "easy" to start. Let's take 3 beats. Then,you inhale 3 beats, pause 3 beats, exhale 3 beats, pause 3 beats. As you get control over it, little by little, go and add some beats. So the next would be: 4 in, 4 stop, 4 out, 4 stop. Continue (over at least some weeks) until you increase 2 or 3 times your initial number. When you master it. Then go for another proportion: 1:2:3:4. So it would be like: in 3, stop 6, out 9, stop 12. I want to make it clear that you shouldn't experience effort practicing it. Don't try to run too much, and enjoy increasing little by little.

With this exercises, you will experience a lot of things in your diaphragm. Let relaxation and pleasure be your tools to master it.

Then, when you are tired after years of doing exercises =), then you can start dealing with your attention directly. Sounds simple: you just watch your breathing. There are many ways to "get in". One that I use with my students is, first extreme quietness of your body. Then establish a point of attention in your belly. then another point of attention in the sensation of the air in your nose. When you get to this point, your inner conversation will stop....

talking more about it would be out of topic:cool:. But I hope this explanation would give you an idea of my work with breathing. I know it could sound complicated at first, but in my opinion, when you master your breathing (unblocked through your attention) applied to your singing, then nobody can tell you how to sing anymore =).

Considering this level, Caruso wold be in my opinion, one of the big masters of breathing. If you pay attention to his recordings, you will find a richness in dynamics, beauty and power, in ways that sounds almost inhumane

I know it's a quite alternative point of view of breathing for singing. But the future of singing will be in this direction, allowing, instead of using compensatory exercises and frustrating tricks to control a wild horse, that only needs to be released instead of forced.

I wish you a nice day!

[devaitis]

Thank you. Very helpful.

[ronws]

Okay. Thanks.

That means that every doctor I have known, such as my own doctor, as well those I have read, such as Dr. Fillebrown, doctor, surgeon, singer, vocal rehab specialist, are all wrong.

What Dante described are muscular actions of the abdominals and perhaps the intercostals.

So, listening to doctors and reading doctors who have studied and seen anatomy in action has led me astray. Please, forgive my ignorance.

I guess, I have been wrong in believing those experts who studied for a decade, practiced for two decades, and relied on actual study of the physical process.

How could I have been so wrong?

I still have much to learn.

[jonpall]

Cool post, Dante.

[ronws]

Actually, Dante, you make a good point. And trust me, I am not being sarcastic or trying to get under anyone's skin. In fact, I have been admonished that I could be gone the next time I offend someone. Which is likely to happen, as rubbing people the wrong way is a natural talent of mine and I am not bragging or proud of that, it's just a thing.

But the point you make Dante is that it is not about science (which is the stumbling block for people such as myself,) it's about feeling and perception. If I want to say and believe the Sun is blue, well then, it's blue, at least in my vew of the world. Trust me, I'm only offering that statement as an example. To someone, somewhere, with the right filtered lenses, the Sun will, in fact, appear blue, just as it appears yellow, to us on this planet, through our atmosphere.

So, let me re-phrase. In my experience and beliefs and through my study medical knowledge as it relates to singing, and my understanding of the scientific method, especially as I have learned through my actual study of physics, especially as it relates to electrical theory the reasoning abilities that I gained through an appreciation in math, especially algebraic logic, etc, the diaphragm is a muscle that is not under conscious control but can be affected by other musculature.

I could totally be wrong on that.

[Ricard]

Hi Friends,

Dear Rowns, if you look to the history, you will find experts saying that the earth was flat...and so on. I don't mean that this doesn't have value, right now we are also playing this "breathing experts" game.

I respect doctors and experts, I use their knowledge too, but life taught me not to take something as the Truth, just because someone said so, no matter how respected or eloquent could be. Words are abstract concepts, mind reflections of the real life that is just experience. Words will never be truths. Do you remember how many things where told to us by experts that where simply wrong?

Ask any real scientific for the truth, and he will tell you that the truth is just a point of view.

And going to the topic, it's a good new to discover that there is more to learn than we know now. We are all working together to learn about singing and discover new perspectives, based in our sharing our experiences.

Control of the diaphragm is possible, and I have the experience of it as many other singers, I guess by the recordings. I hope this have value for you. If you thing it is not possible, simply ignore my commentaries.

Maybe a good question for us is, how can the voluntary control of the diaphragm be proved? Maybe we should ask some expert and find a way. How can that be measured? Why someone came to the conclusion that it is not possible to control such things? Maybe it's just a specific nerve connection plugged to a nerve center what makes doctors think that it is not possible? You can breath in faster if you want, isn't it diaphragmatic control?

Please, to any "supporters-singers", can you give your experience?

I wish you a nice weekend!

Ricard

[stew503]

Hi,

There seems to be two differing streams here and maybe its a jargon (I suppose Jargon is the wrong word) issue - rather than one view against another ...

These being - Diaphragm control and Breathing control, maybe the two are mixed up and we can discuss both.

There are two pathways of motor neuron stimulation of the respiratory muscles. The first is the control of voluntary breathing by the cerebral cortex. The second is involuntary breathing controlled by the medulla oblongata.

.

From Ron's point of view - the diaphragm and autonomic control; "the diaphragm is a muscle that is not under conscious control but can be affected by other musculature" is a good statement.

The Diaphragm is "controlled" by the Phrenic Nerve, which stems from the medulla oblongata, part of the autonomic system. And know the "C3, 4, and 5 - keep the diaphragm alive" mnemonic and if there is spinal injury pre C3 requires manual intervention for breathing. Google the Rhythm of ventilation, autonomic for more information.

...

From others point - (Breathing / forced exhalation / held breath) and "breathing" being controllable. Thus now we are talking about breathing - so control of 'voluntary' breathing by the cerebral cortex by use of exercises / yoga.

These train accessory muscles of ventilation such as (inspiration against resistance) the sternomastoid and scalene and (forced expiration) the abdominal wall that "helps" to push up the diaphragm.

Thus Dante's text, "I think Ricard hinted at how he controls the diaphragm when he mentioned "by resisting the abdominal muscles" in his above post. I think he is referring to controlling the RISE of the diaphragm during the exhalatory portion of the breathing cycle. You do it indirectly. It's done in yoga breathing exercises. You can choose to have the diaphragm come up more quickly by pressing in the abdomen as with forced exhalation (like when you cough really hard), or you can resist its ascension by prolonging the inspiratory "posture" for as long as possible (i.e. when trying to exhale to a count of 4, 8, 12, etc.)."

.. is correct as the abdominal muscles are pushing the diaphragm (we shouldn't argue as to whether we are "consciously” controlling the diaphragm as we are "pushing" it by use of another muscle)

...

Maybe this phrase though could do with detail ... "With this exercises, you will experience a lot of things in your diaphragm" ...

Is this a feedback loop from the diaphragm itself ? or from other muscles abdominals / scalene / sternomastoid (and others as per Kendall) ? ... Where is the feedback from ?

I'm looking through my books on nerve feedback from the diaphragm, but that's likely beyond my bookshelf.

Stewart

p.s. to add as I saw a post whilst I was writing,

"Control of the diaphragm is possible ... Maybe it's just a specific nerve connection plugged to a nerve center what makes doctors think that it is not possible? You can breath in faster if you want, isn't it diaphragmatic control?"

... If we cut the Phrenic around C3 - will your diaphram be doing what it should for breathing ? , or are we in a training of accessory muscles to control the diaphram itself, rather than conscious control of the diaphram itself discussion

Thoughts ?

I decided to add to this post rather than post later ... In response to, "You can breath in faster if you want, isn't it diaphragmatic control" - We could say that's conscious control of accessory muscles / external intercostals, which are also used in respiratory failure.

In addition to nerve feedback from diaphragm (for Ron - and all),

Pain, due to the sensory nerve supply will radiate to Shoulder region (the area of skin supplied by the C3 to C5 segments of the spinal cord) .. They also contribute ventral rami to the phrenic - Irritation to the peripheral regions of the diaphragm ... ... is more localised, being referred to the skin over the costal margins of the anterolateral abdominal wall. (Moore / Dalley - Clinically oriented anatomy - a blue section - page 295)... However I wouldn't have thought that yoga uses these "pain" sensations, however I DO believe whilst they likely don't "feel" the diaphragm itself - they feel the "movement"

[ronws]

Excellent post, Stew. It has equal weight to the world being flat, or not being flat.

I was not aware that we actually experience sensory feeling in the diaphragm. Everything I have read says otherwise.

I could be wrong.

I am still in the dark as to how one actually controls the diaphragm by itself, totally independent of the abdominals and intercostals.

Everything I have read up to now says that you can't. Can I hold my breath? Yes. Can I exhale and not breathe in for some moments? Yes. What I understand is that the abdominals relax, causing organs to descend and the diaphragm flexes, creating a vacuum in the lungs, which draws in air. Then, the abdominals and some intercostals contract, pushing the organs against the diaphragm and air is pushed out of the lungs.

[Mirador]

My old vocal teacher showed me once how to get the diaphragm to curl inwards/upwards. I don't recall exactly how it's done. You can easily feel it with your hands if it's done correctly. I think you do it for the same reason you straighten the curve of your back when you're running out of air. To really get all the air out. For normal singing you don't really need to think about it, I guess.

[ronws]

The diaphragm is horizontal and behind the stomach wall of muscles and the floating ribs. I'm not exactly sure how you can feel it with your hands.

Please, teach me.

[ronws]

Ron,

That's easy. Just reach your fingers up under your rib cage and breathe, and you'll feel something push against your fingers and then relax. Jaime Vendera has a stretch for this on his web site. I also had this done to me in my Rolfing sessions. There are also videos on YouTube demonstrating this. You'd probably have to look up something on re-doming the diaphragm. Now, what exactly Mirador is referring to, I'm not quite sure.

As for this statement, personally speaking, I don't think one can control the diaphragm by itself independent of the other muscles (at least as it relates to respiration) because they all work as part of the system. You remove one part or try to have one part work independently and you have a malfunctioning system. That's why I was referring to breathing and respiration in my posts more than the diaphragm itself. I think Stew hit the nail on the head when he drew the distinction between the diaphragm and breathing.

~~Dante~~

My point was that you can't actually feel the diaphragm, you are feeling organs that are between your fingers and that. For example, we have some mysentery, I believe, to help hold the organs in, to attach to. I'm not saying you can't exert some pressure on it, like a billiard ball striking another billiard ball.

As for your second statement I quoted, that is what I have been saying, more or less, but that it is not driven by conscious thought over the diaphragm but surrounding muscles.

For some reason, my statement is on par with the Earth being flat. I'm not sure why that is and I hope to learn more.

[Ricard]

Hi friends!

We all agree that Stew's post was something we needed to read at this point.

I talk about awareness of the involuntary breathing. I know that is not "supposed" to happen by doctors, but the truth is that it happens, but I must say, that it is something that needs a good amount of work to make it. i'm not talking about simple breathing exercises at physical level that you control training your muscles. I'm talking about your highest state of concentration, and this is something that it personally took me 15 years, and the same for the most of people I know. I know that there is people that can make it faster, but most of people need at least 10 years or regular practice . Of course it is not a common exercises what I'm talking about. I hope i made this clear.

It is also good to say, as Dante and Stew concluded, that talking only about the diaphragm itself is not making this clearer.

So I will try to describe what I'm talking about:

As you pay attention to your breathing, you start realizing that breathing is a lot more than a "muscular event". Is what keeps us alive. If this muscle would need from your ordinary attention to function, we would die while sleeping. As you go deeper and deeper, and your mind stops talking to you , then you start observing different levels of this event that we call breathing.

First is physical and muscular and has to do with our body as we medically know it, you gather this information through your senses. Mostly from the sens of touch, but later also with your ear and so on.

Then, as you make this, you start observing energy. You start feeling energy coming and going in all your body. You will enter in a second level of observation. Kind of electricity and heat, but is not exactly that. It's something that you have to percieve by yourself. At this point your breathing muscular coordination changes dramatically. Many people take it as an spiritual event, because it is full of pleasure and joy, different from your normal perception.

At this point, I would tell you that there were some muscular signs that shows you that you started "affecting" and releasing your involuntary breathing.

But this is just the beginning, because you find more deep levels of awareness of your breathing. Then it comes and emotional level, you can feel how you breath your emotions literally. then it came a mental level, where you see your thoughts coming and going in a breathing pulse.... and there is more, but we are going out of topic.

The only thing I can say is that as you go into deeper levels, you start controlling the involuntary systems of your body. And it is not "using additional muscles" . This is the first level of observation, the one that everybody is in, and I agree that from this level, it's only frustration and additional tensions what you feel when you attempt to control your breathing.

I understand why many teachers don't try to control it, it is something that is hard to teach because it has a lot to do with the awareness of the student. And there is no way to deal with that if you are not really a Master.

but in the other hand, I understand this teachers that try to master the breathing, because it is true that if you control your involuntary breathing, no one can teach you so much anymore about singing. But it is important to mention, that if you start controlling such thing, you also control a lot of things that for most people is impossible. Quitting addictions or bad habits for example, would be a game for someone that control his involuntary breathing.

Master your breathing, when I talk about it, is not "common" breathing exercises for singing. Maybe this is the confusion in here. I proposed a practical way to experience it, I hope it inspires someone to experience it. I suppose some people in here are just looking for words, and words are not knowledge, so they won't have an answer to this. About this involuntary breathing topic you only know it when you do it. Talking about it is not going to take us so far. Unless someone finds a way to prove it. (Does anyone?)

Stew, when you say " It's done in yoga breathing exercises. You can choose to have the diaphragm come up more quickly by pressing in the abdomen as with forced exhalation (like when you cough really hard)", I want to add, that this is only true when you do yoga exercises wrongly. Normally at the beginning, but as you really go deep in Pranajama exercises, you start controlling your involuntary systems, and you don't use this compensatory muscles anymore.

Thank you all so much for this opportunity to question myself from others eyes. Specially Ronws, Dante and Stew. I enjoyed and learned a lot

Ricard

[Steven Fraser]

...but in the other hand, I understand this teachers that try to master the breathing, because it is true that if you control your involuntary breathing, no one can teach you so much anymore about singing...

Ricard

Ricard, et al. : I apologize for taking this one line out of context. I've been reading this thread with some interest, to understand the perspectives of those whom I have read before, and of you, whom I have not. Very interesting overall.

To be direct, I am not convinced that the mastery of involuntary breathing is beneficial to the singer, or that the person who has such mastery is in no need of other instruction to sing well. Please allow me to explain.

Breathing, regardless of involuntary or voluntary character, is only part of the coordinated mind/body interactions which produce singing. Exhalation interacts with laryngeal muscular configuration to produce phonation of certain fundamental frequencies. Phonation interacts with tracheal and vocal-tract characteristics to produce vowels and other resonances. Sequences of vowels are interspersed with non-voiced sounds to create intelligibly sung words. All of these elements are brought into the expressive universe of the personality, and into the context of human musical communication... of vocal activity we call singing.

To my thinking, the person who has mastered breathing in isolation of these other aspects has a considerable volume of work to do to incorporate such breathing into a coordinated singing whole, and at the same time, to bring the entirety under subservience to the musical imagination and aesthetic intent.

Interested in your thoughts.

[Ricard]

Dear Mr Fraser,

Thanks for reading and participate.

We have different concepts about what breathing is. Breathing is your connection to life force as you are in this body. It is not only muscular events, it is multidimensional. I tried in my previous post to make a brief description of the different levels I'm able to observe until now.

It is easy to check, that if you change your breathing it will change your physical, mental and emotional state. Being angry has it's own breathing pattern, as being sad, happy or any other state. Imagine the consequences of being able to manage breathing in a deep level.

Mastering breathing is not isolated from any other thing you could do. Breathing covers any other aspect of singing. Any other modulation is subordinated. Anyone that had experienced a panic attack, would agree with me that you can't even think properly when you breath is out of control.

That's why some singers, no matter how good their technique is, still sounding artificial. Virtuosity in secondary functions is not going to make up who you are for so long. I don't mean that one shouldn't develop other skills, just that all other skills will take you as far as the quality of your breathing is.

Breathing quality is the difference between singers learning for 20 years and still not interesting to the audience, and young singers without so much training affecting anyone who is listening. You will learn as fast as your breathing quality is.

Said that, I'd like to add that I'm not so clear on how to teach this, because someone ready to learn this, is someone ready to change his way of thinking, feeling and it takes a considerable amount of patient and subjective work. Most of singers are looking for others attention and money, and won't carry this long term subtle work.

I'm very lucky to understand this things, and I'm happy to share it with anyone interested. I'm very proud to be at the beginning of the way of the excellence of singing. It is not a secret, you don't even need a special teacher, you just need to have a real desire for singing, be ready to forget everything you thought you knew, and hear what your own voice is teaching you constantly.

I want to finish quoting Caruso and Tetrazzini: "...The foundation of singing is breathing and breath control. A singer must be able to rely on his breath, just as he relies upon the solidity of the ground beneath his feet..." "...until that foundation has been developed and strengthened the would-be singer need expect no satisfactory results..."

thanks for your attention =)

Ricard

[ronws]

I have a layman's understanding of yoga and meditation. I have practiced some yoga and have studied TM, Bushido, and a few other things. Anyway, yogis are able to slow their heart rate way down, but not stop it. They are able to slow their breathing way down, but not stop it. Modernly, we can do it with bio-feedback machines and it works on an autonomic response. That is, counting one's breath or heartbeats brings focus to it and those functions adapt your concentration. It is an automatic response but since you are counting, it seems like it is under your conscious control.

And those actions and apparent controls are at the opposite end of the spectrum from singing "Rainbow in the Dark."

But your theory has a poetic elegance to it.

Hugs and kisses....

edited to add:

I don't want someone to think I was cursing or using profanity. Bushido is a japanese word. Literal translation is "Spirit Way of the Warrior." Most people know it by the common phrase, "Code of the Samurai."

No, I'm not a ninja and I don't own a katana. In fact, I would rather have a Claymoore.

[ronws]

Hatha yoga.

So, can someone post a yogic version of "Black Dog" by Led Zeppelin? I would be interested to see this principle in action.

[ronws]

LOL@yogic version. Interesting use of words. I personally choose not to do it because I don't have much desire to sing that particular song, or really much of any songs for that matter. I can only sing something that I truly have a desire for. Otherwise, it would just sound like I'm singing empty words.

~~Dante~~

Oh, okay ...

It doesn't have to be a song I chose. Maybe a song that you feel passion about. Or even Ricard could upload a song that inspires him, using this yogic technique.

You may think I am being confrontational or snotty but I am not. I really do believe that I do not know everything, regardless of how my words read in print. I can learn by washing away some preconceived notions and be presented with an example of what is talked about, here.

[Steven Fraser]

Ricard: My responses interspersed.

We have different concepts about what breathing is. Breathing is your connection to life force as you are in this body. It is not only muscular events, it is multidimensional. I tried in my previous post to make a brief description of the different levels I'm able to observe until now.

I respond: Ok, for the purposes of this discussion, I can use your definition.

Using your definition, I do not yet see how those other characteristics of singing are addressed, unless they are among the multidimensional aspects to which you allude. It would be very helpful to me if you would pick one of them and explain how the mastery of this connection to life force affects that particular aspect.

It is easy to check, that if you change your breathing it will change your physical, mental and emotional state. Being angry has it's own breathing pattern, as being sad, happy or any other state. Imagine the consequences of being able to manage breathing in a deep level.

I respond: I confess confusion on this point. I thought the character of breathing was the result of the level of consciousness, not its cause.

Mastering breathing is not isolated from any other thing you could do. Breathing covers any other aspect of singing. Any other modulation is subordinated. Anyone that had experienced a panic attack, would agree with me that you can't even think properly when your breath is out of control.

I respond: I am at a loss. If you define breathing in a manner that subsumes all activity that take place in singing, then there is no room for discussion.

That's why some singers, no matter how good their technique is, still sounding artificial. Virtuosity in secondary functions is not going to make up who you are for so long. I don't mean that one shouldn't develop other skills, just that all other skills will take you as far as the quality of your breathing is.

I reply: It seems to me that this is a completly differerent proposition than you had made in your prior post, which is that he who has mastered breathing knows how to sing. This reads more like 'One will only sing as well as one breathes'.

Breathing quality is the difference between singers learning for 20 years and still not interesting to the audience, and young singers without so much training affecting anyone who is listening. You will learn as fast as your breathing quality is.

Said that, I'd like to add that I'm not so clear on how to teach this, because someone ready to learn this, is someone ready to change his way of thinking, feeling and it takes a considerable amount of patient and subjective work. Most of singers are looking for others attention and money, and won't carry this long term subtle work.

I'm very lucky to understand this things, and I'm happy to share it with anyone interested. I'm very proud to be at the beginning of the way of the excellence of singing. It is not a secret, you don't even need a special teacher, you just need to have a real desire for singing, be ready to forget everything you thought you knew, and hear what your own voice is teaching you constantly.

I want to finish quoting Caruso and Tetrazzini: "...The foundation of singing is breathing and breath control. A singer must be able to rely on his breath, just as he relies upon the solidity of the ground beneath his feet..." "...until that foundation has been developed and strengthened the would-be singer need expect no satisfactory results..."

I respond: I'll leave the first three of these alone, and address the last paragraph: This interesting for you to include. Caruso and Tetrazzini are not discussing breathing the way you define it, because they refer to it as the foundation of singing... the undergirding basis of vocal function, and not as the overarching life-energy connection awareness under which all other aspects of singing take their proper place automatically.

What I was addressing in my first post was the proposition that mastery of breathing was sufficient, in and of itself, to bring about excellent singing. My own thought is that an individual's best singing will not happen until breathing is mastered.

[VideoHere]

wow folks, this is the first post where i'm just gonna sit back and read and not say a g.d. thing......lol!!!!!

whew, way, way out there.....lol!!!

well, just changed my mind....ricard, are we not getting breathing and emotional connection intertwined?

[Ricard]

Uff, a lot to write today =)

Ok, Mr Fraser

You said:

"I do not yet see how those other characteristics of singing are addressed, unless they are among the multidimensional aspects to which you allude. It would be very helpful to me if you would pick one of them and explain how the mastery of this connection to life force affects that particular aspect. "

Ok, let's take the resonators. When you work in a "energetic level" for example, your energy is released. Your body is relaxed in a new way, and through this energy that is travelling freely, the sound that is a manifestation of energy, flows and can go deeper in your resonators.

Next:

"I respond: I confess confusion on this point. I thought the character of breathing was the result of the level of consciousness, not its cause."

Yes, it is. But as it is the same thing "you", you can affect your consciousness through your body. That's the reason of the yoga postures, as your higher levels are difficult to reach, it's easier for many people, work indirectly through this connection. Of course, no permanent effects are done, but you open a clear chance to change things.

I am at a loss. If you define breathing in a manner that subsumes all activity that take place in singing, then there is no room for discussion.

I want to make clear that it took me thousands of hours of observation. And I studied the issue a lot. There is not satisfactory explanation, but an experience.

It seems to me that this is a completly differerent proposition than you had made in your prior post, which is that he who has mastered breathing knows how to sing. This reads more like 'One will only sing as well as one breathes'.

I don't understand the contradiction you are pointing.

I think that Caruso and Tetrazzini wanted to make a book that was easy to understand and to apply. But of course they were conscious of many things said in this post. And as you see, I'm not sure that this thread will changes anybody's way of singing. That's way I never talked about it before. But I confess that, even I don't know where it take us, it is a pleasant interaction =). Thanks for your thoughts! I think we agree

Dear Dante ,

referring to Kapalabhati and Bhastrika, I'm not a Yogi master. I have a parallel experience through other techniques, and then I used yoga exercises just for punctual occasions. Until date, I haven't found an enlightened yoga master who really taught me the way for this. But there is very similar type of exercises in other techniques. For example Rebirthing and Transpersonal psychology. I had the chance to study this techniques for some time. In here you will find some answers, that of course, are experiences. This techniques use this kind of forced breathing to collapse and open the breathing and altered states. The fast way, and the only one, is to find someone experienced to teach you, because they are going to push you far that your ordinary state, and your unconscious mind will start vomiting...and you need someone there to be sure that you're not getting crazy.

What I had experienced through this forced breathing techniques, is that it creates a collapse, very easy to produce because you only need to do this breathing for some time (45min in rebirthing and hours in Transpersonal psychology), and then it came the interesting part. You will experience in short term what I call "being breathed". For anyone experiencing this state, I'm sure he will agree with me of a lot in this thread. And you seem to have experienced it!

Rowns ,

Actually, this thing of recording and uploading could be a long term project to learn together with more people in the forum. Did you said that song for anything special? We can try to make covers and try to apply things. I will start hearing that song and thinking of what has been said in here.

Videohere ,

are we not getting breathing and emotional connection intertwined?

Absolutely. You can't separate them!

Thanks you all for this nice conversation,

Ricard

[VideoHere]

ricard, in this respect i'm with you 100%. i think you might also be reffering to breath support perhaps? ex.: you can lock down for some pretty intense sounds that are fueled by the emotion you put into the song.