Octave Siren Pillars 2.0

[D.Starr]

OK, so I jumped back into working on Pillars 2.0 and really finding it difficult.

I can do the Octave sirens up to about E4/F4, obviously because this is the beginning of my passagio. I've been told by the people in my house F4/G4 sound really shrill.

Really ear piercing... not in a good way either.

I've tried to lift up and pull back but I feel like there's nothing there, no umpf. It's hard to describe.

I also found it hard to do the resonant track exercise because I feel a pull in my palate. Plus I can't effectively bridge into my head, I can do it on lip rolls slowly and NG scales slowly, but not when I do the resonant track exercise. I also find the track and release hard as I have to bridge into head.

Any ideas on what I could do to solve this?

I'm exceedingly low on cash so internet lessons are out of the equation at the moment.

https://www.box.net/shared/96277zrteem9mmm60n25

There's the clip. I sound really shrill on the second scale. The first is fine in my opinion.

[VideoHere]

d,

a lot of vocal exercises aren't intended to sound good, they are designed to build coordination, strength and muscle memory.

checklist:

have you warmed up?

are you using support for those higher notes?

you need to lighten up just a bit as you ascend..still support, but try to thin out as you go higher.

i hear the vibrato....don't be concerned with your vibrato right now.

focus on getting the connection.

it's not so bad guy.

[jonpall]

Your siren isn't too bad for a guy who's been doing it for a short time. The final F4 is very close to how it's supposed to be. You're slightly shaky on your way up, but I think you mostly just need more practice. I didn't hear anything obviously wrong with how you do it. But if a coach were to SEE you do this, he/she might spot some facial tensions or incorrect breathing, as examples. Seeing a coach might really help you. Right now I suggest that you practice this over and over, try also going a few semitones higher and see if you can RELAX some more muscles in your throat and body while you do it. Also don't forget to sing songs and have fun.

[D.Starr]

Thanks for the advice guys.

@Videohere Yeah I warm up with some simple humming, NG scales and lip bubbles, with a little bit of resonant track scales.

I'm supporting as well. I'm finding it hard to lighten up as I go higher. I can do it if I try and fry in a way, edge I guess. But then I feel like I'm moving away from what I'm doing.

Finding it hard to twang as well, I know the feeling of twang it's just taking away that quacky noise.

Just find it hard to push from that falsetto mode to a more twangy resonant head voice. Pulling back and up like Rob says makes me flip and move out of the way I was going.

[VideoHere]

you should also consider trying it nice and light as well. no need to be full on at this point. what's the vowel "eh"?

[D.Starr]

Yeah Eh is the vowel, I find it very dakr on uh if thats the word for it. Kinda restricting a little too. I'm still going for that curbing R&B sound.

[VideoHere]

Yeah Eh is the vowel, I find it very dakr on uh if thats the word for it. Kinda restricting a little too. I'm still going for that curbing R&B sound.

d, respectfully, you're putting the cart before the horse. learn the fundamentals. get the bridging under way.

[D.Starr]

Yeah I guess I am kinda running when I've barely got walking...CRAWLING down.

[ronws]

What Bob said. :cool:

The whole point of bridging early is to bridge early, rather than keep carrying chest up. And so, perhaps you are carrrying chest a little too loud and prominent. Let your chest sound lighter. Unless you are dead set on sounding like a dramatic alto.

As for family members saying you sound shrill. First off, and I will probably offfend you and am willing to take that chance, who are they to judge? What do they usually listen to and are they comparing you unfairly to that?

Second, it takes a while to develope coordination. You will make some odd sounds, at first. And if you're family is not supportive, perhaps you need practice time away from them. Not that we are your ersatz family but we will be supportive. Each and every one of us that finds singing to be a passion have gone through plateaus and downright "quacky" days where we sounded like 4 flat tires on a muddy road.

Also, while you work through these sounds, I challenge you to the hardest thing of all. Quit judging the sound by your previous aesthetics. Just make the sound. Trust me, it's going to change. But, at first, quit being so judgemental about sounds. And, no doubt, you picked up some of those attitudes from your upbringing. I know you will say that is not so but I've been around long enough to know that it is so.

That's harder than the actual scales and resonant tracking, etc.

Ergo, singing is mental.

Scary as it is, there is a time when you wean yourself from family, just a little bit. As dear and loving as they may be, they are not perfect, nor are they competent to judge accurately everything that you do. "Yea, and there shall be great wailing and gnashing of teeth ..." - Old Testament.

Let me liken singing unto nuclear reactor maintenance. If you were trained to do that, would you hold as much weight of your family's knowledge of that, considering that they have not been through the same training and know as much about as they read from USA Today? Of course not.

Your doing fine and give yourself some slack to learn.

You can and will do this.

[Robert Lunte]

OK, so I jumped back into working on Pillars 2.0 and really finding it difficult.

I can do the Octave sirens up to about E4/F4, obviously because this is the beginning of my passagio. I've been told by the people in my house F4/G4 sound really shrill.

Really ear piercing... not in a good way either.

I've tried to lift up and pull back but I feel like there's nothing there, no umpf. It's hard to describe.

I also found it hard to do the resonant track exercise because I feel a pull in my palate. Plus I can't effectively bridge into my head, I can do it on lip rolls slowly and NG scales slowly, but not when I do the resonant track exercise. I also find the track and release hard as I have to bridge into head.

Any ideas on what I could do to solve this?

I'm exceedingly low on cash so internet lessons are out of the equation at the moment.

https://www.box.net/shared/96277zrteem9mmm60n25

There's the clip. I sound really shrill on the second scale. The first is fine in my opinion.

Starr:

1). Your tones above F4/G4 are "shrill" because you have no intrinsic anchoring. Its just totally obvious to me. Your essentially, twanging in the head voice, which is good even though it sounds bad. Twanging in the head voice is on the right path, but all you will ever have is "shrill" and duck sounds until you build the strength and coordination to engage your intrinsic anchoring set; tongue leveraging and dumping the larynx and not just engaging it, but also holding it. Its not enough to just do it, you have to do it and hold and sing through this new boomy formant. Thats the problem.. to learn to get your intrinsic anchoring you have to get a feel for the connection between your tongue leveraging and your larynx dumping and you have to have the timing right. Its something that is most helpful for me to show you in a lesson.

2). Why do you think that "lift up / pull back" should have "umpf"? Lift up pull back is "pulling back" to a hyper light mass phonation as a means to get around the passaggio and shut down the instinct to constrict. It could be so light that your phonating Falsetto some times, if you were, that would be perfectly fine, if the mission was to do a lift up / pull back maneuver. On the contrary, lift up / pull back has no "umpf", its just vapor as you pass through the passaggio.

3). On the resonant tracking workout and the track & release workout, don't worry about bridging on these workouts. If you watched the provided video lectures and the introduction to this workout, you would of heard me advise you to stop trying to bridge on resonant tracking. Resonant tracking is not a vocalize that is designed for bridging training. Its designed to balance your phonation threshold pressure (PTP) above and below the vocal folds and excite the resonators. Don't bother worrying about bridging until you get to the sirens.

"The Four Pillars of Singing" 2.0 is not easy. It is in fact some probably some of the most challenging vocalizes ever produced. However excercises 1-7 are essentially the foundation building workouts that are good for all beginners and all levels.

Stick with drilling onsets and sirens until you can phonate a perfect, pleasing onset and coordinate your intrinsic anchoring through the passaggio smoothly. It would really help you to invest in some lessons.

If you can't take internet lessons... then take the "Train With Robert" content which is a new idea in voice training. It is a full CD of me singing all the workouts designed for you to sing over the top with me until you get to know all the workouts inside and out. Train on the "Train with Robert' and "Train with Simulated" voice CDs...

Lastly, think of your onsets, sirens and intrinsic anchoring as work flows... a sequential steps in a process... these are explained in the book. That is why you train them slow and controlled , so you can step through the work flow of releasing sirens , bridging & anchoring to get big head tones.

[D.Starr]

Thank you very much Rob.

Yeah I think I get the intrinsic anchoring set then simply let go. I need to focus just a little bit more.

I meant umpf because I was in falsetto and all breathy and when I get further up it just falls apart.

I was doing some buzzing and trills at work and found that if I kind of fry/use edge when passing up into head and back down, I can hold onto it and don't break/flip out.

I just want to try and bridge on the resonant tracking because I hear you doing it and feel that I should be working my way through the chest to head easier. But I understand it can take time and practice to get where I want to be.

I'ma jus go over some of your post again and work on the first 3 folders for a week or two.

Really wanted to enter a singing competition that ends at the beginning of September, but I just don't feel like I can hit F4s and G4s just yet. I feel like it's a good opportunity but don't want to end up being embarrassed. My family say I should because I'll never know if I'll get through. But I guess I'll leave it.

Oh and yes my family are supportive of my singing but I guess like you said they aren't exactly singers, if anything they are immensely out of tune.

But I'll keep working on it, they don't overly complain of me singing.

[VideoHere]

d, go ahead and get into that contest if that's what your gut feeling is telling you. you still can have fun while you train.

it's not like everything you sing goes on hold till you sing better. right? don't ever lose sight of the fun of it, and accept the fact that you will have off days and on days.

[D.Starr]

d, go ahead and get into that contest if that's what your gut feeling is telling you. you still can have fun while you train.

it's not like everything you sing goes on hold till you sing better. right? don't ever lose sight of the fun of it, and accept the fact that you will have off days and on days.

Thanks, I wanna sing Alicia Keys - If I ain't got you, but the Maroon 5 cover. It's not particularly high.

It's just gettin this intrinsic anchoring and twanging down.

[VideoHere]

Thanks, I wanna sing Alicia Keys - If I ain't got you, but the Maroon 5 cover. It's not particularly high.

It's just gettin this intrinsic anchoring and twanging down.

nice. go for it....if that's a karaoke choice, i may give that one a try myself......branch out to the newer stuff out there.

[ronws]

D, you just answered your own question, and mine. You mentioned that your family is out of tune. So, how can they accurately judge your singing? I don't say that to be snotty or mean or cause you problems with your family. Simply put, they may not be qualified to accurately judge what you are doing. If someone is used to hearing Johnny Cash, Jeff Buckley might sound "odd" to them. It can be apples and oranges, at times. Love your family, yes. And realize that you are in a different field of play than they are.

It was an eye-opener for me, one day, to hear my step-grandfather, who was a dramatic bass who sang in church choir, say, one day, that he really admired the music of Pink Floyd. It is both a testament to how a family can grow and, in that case, the musical genius of Pink Floyd. Other than that, my step-grandfather would listen to only classical music and opera, to which I was also listening, as well as stuff on the radio (I am a melange of influences.)

So, you might have to give your family a break by allowing for the fact that they might not understand what you are doing, just now. But give yourself a break, too, and forge ahead.

This is your life.

[Duchi]

Well, I would like to mention my experience with family being not so supportive.

Sometimes family members are not really supportive. My grandmother cannot appreciate Chris Cornell's singing with distortion in the 5th octave, she almost immediately starts complaining "why is this guy screaming, turn it off" when I'm listening to his music. If I start singing or exercising, my mother would come in my room telling me to shut up, because its loud. They just don't get it So, you should have the attitude that you don't care, because otherwise you will tense and hold back and not sing correct if you think that somebody is listening and judging you. Keep up!