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Different types of distortions in whistle register: is it possible?

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anonimuzz
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Hey, I never heard it mentioned, so I'd like to know: can we actually create distortions and similar types of effects in whistle? The vocal tract configuration for whistle is kinda tricky for that, I guess, but is it still possible? That would make the whistle register more interesting!

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yes you can... But i think it's dangerous ground and requires complete control over the whistleregister wich very very very few actualy possess. Not something i ever would reccomend

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Hi!

Sure it's possible. Maybe the easiest is with vocal fry, kinda "cracking" it. It may even help going into whistle, coz vocal fry connects easy. You have to be sure not to force it tho. It'll make your whistle to go away. I think I could send a clip about it. I'm not doing it well enough tho to use it completely healthy.

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Tks for the replies. I love listening to well done vocal effects, they're a little extra that makes a huge difference, in my opinion. But I'm not ready to use them in half of my range, so I'm thinking about trying it higher(I have a good enough head and whistle, I believe). I wanted some guidance and assurance that it was safe, instead of just trying to find out how to do it and end up messing up my voice, that's why I opened this topic. I'd like that clip, masqutti! But be careful, lol ;)

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Well firstoff whistlevoice is as much a vocaleffect as distortion in my opinion... The risk is that when your up that high soprano C and above adding stuff like gritt will only sound like you are slaughtering your voice, people will only think your singing on a crack in your voice. But thats just my 50 Cent :P

Are your head and whistle fully connected?

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Lol, I never saw whistle as an effect, but it actually makes sense to call it that. Well, I kinda like the whistle register (although it's usually misplaced in music), but I don't want to be limited to the sweet, pure sound of it. Even if it sounds ugly, I want to at least know that I can change how it sounds whenever I want and have more options to choose when I get up there. Yes, my head and whistle are fully connected already, either ascending or descending.

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oh thats great, can you post a clip of that i have trouble connecting it, i have as much range as i want bur serious trouble around the break area, how did you solve that?

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I didn't solve it consciously. For some reason, even before starting vocal training or caring about it, I already had a usable whistle register and an acceptable bridge (I discovered it when I was making fun of Christina Aguilera with some friends and we ended up mimicking her, lol). Then, my vocal practice naturally developed those areas further. Anyway, working in your head voice as much as you can will help. Not just hitting the notes, but really controlling them, either high or low. Do lots of sirens with "woos", "wees" and other vowels, especially "ah", which is the hardest one, at least for me. Get full closure and consistency in head and also whistle. Then, the bridge will be easier, especially if you know exactly where it is.

In my case, when ascending, I feel some switch around Eb6, so to transition decently, I start adding extra squeeze a couple steps below it, placing my head voice closer to the placement of whistle. My tongue goes backwards and up, reaching the soft palate, which is low, leaving just a small opening in the throat, while my mouth is increasingly open to gain some more resonance. I think I also twang. Try placing the tongue in that position I described and with your mouth closed, slide upwards. When you can do that, open your mouth a little, then a little more, etc... Finally, when you are able to easily bridge, you control how much squeeze you add to the notes near the transition.

When descending, you slowly let go of the squeeze as you approach and surpass the bridge by opening up the throat, raising the soft palate and letting the tongue come back to its resting position or to the best position to produce the vowel you're singing in, although you don't have much choice up there.

I have no idea if I'm talking nonsense, I'm just trying to describe what I feel. I wanted to record something new just showing the bridge area but I haven't been sleeping, hydrating nor training like I should, and my whistle is always the first to suffer =P So here are some clips from a month or two:

http://www.box.net/shared/aaa804xcex

http://www.box.net/shared/cg99sibhqt (here's the mimicking, hah)

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whoa pretty nice, you actually got pretty loud volume there, is it comfortable to go that loud,tho it sounds pretty free? I recorded that distortion but forgot my usb-stick home and cannot upload it yet :( Tho it wasn't so good, i already had raped my voice abit with heavy metal so it wasn't such an easy place I recorded :( maybe I try again today and send it when I can.

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Tks! :D Yes, the volume is comfortable, although the B6 is near the top of my range (C#7), so it's a bit tense. I'm only 100% free up to A6, sometimes Bb6. Don't be in a rush to send me the clip. Do it when you can, I'll wait patiently.

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OH my god, that wasnt just pretty nice that was insane, best bridgeing ive ever heard. And what volume you approach those notes as i approach reinforcedfalsetto! Are you male or female? I couldnt realy tell on the clip, im guessing female since ive never heard a man do that approach to those notes...

Congratulations you are one of those few! Il send a clip of my tries so you can hear maybe gimme some tips around the bridge

edit: here's the clip

The thing is your actualy doing the two hardest things in the whistle, get volume and connecting it:P

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Wow, thanks a lot, really 0.o ! :o

I'm a male, actually, but still young. I'm just 15, and although my voice is already settled down, I'm afraid I'm going to lose my high range as I get older. Once again, tks to both for listening and appreciating. I'll try to help you too. Did you get my attempt of describing the bridge above, Jens?

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Aha your that young, yeah i get your tips they all make sense, i dont think you will loose your highrange when you get older. Altough they can dissappear for a while if your larynx has alot more to grow, they you can "rediscover" them but that wont be a problem as you already have such great control.

I think that thing with the tongue will help me abit i havent tried that! :D did you listen to my clip?

Ohh and by the way, Be careful with grit when your that young!!! extra carefull promise me that, i would wait until your atleast 18 before starting. Then the folds have setteled some more

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hehey nice whistle jens :) You should be careful with the tongue trick. It may tense the tongue and do contrictions, that may "reinforce" the whistle to get it "easier", but it'll block vocal folds vibrating if tensed too much and make cords go abit sore/swell in the worst place,basicly losing your whistle for awhile. It will help tho, I notice I'm doing it unconsiously also. But can do it without the tongue raising. Maybe if it helps, you could do it and after it start to unactivate the tongue.

The tongue can be raised without tensing it too much. But in that position it's really easy to do it wrong..

Jens from your clip I'd say you "squeeze" too much when entering your whistle. You know, the bridging from your headvoice to whistle is something like just ascending your headvoice higher and higher, without straining it in order to get it.. I see you got it, but you should work some releasing exercices to get the lower whistle voice working. At the moment you squeeze too much to let it "flow freely".

In SLS/SS they talk about bridges, that there's many of them. It's pretty cool way to think about it, since you get to imagine that you "shift up gears", and makes it easier to access extreme high range with solid connection. And this isn't false, coz there really are some "breaks" in tone quality that can be smoothed out tho, but it still feels like it goes a gear up everytime the qualitychange happens..

So, as you can go to the whistle now, maybe you could do like this: Go up to the whistle the way you can and then descend like a siren to the headvoice and, if you want to, to the chestvoice.

The higher you are, the lesser the amount of airflow should be, isn't that right?

I think that usually descending makes release, whereas ascending usually squeezes up, it's a natural behaviour for the voice to "trying to access higher", when you don't control your airflow to go smaller as you go higher, so it needs more squeeze to hold the folds together when ascending. When you descend, the air flow already is "smaller" coz you are higher, and descending from that has a more easier feeling, coz airflow needed is now actually less than you would usually have within those abit lower notes! I believe this helps bridging whistle, once you get it descending, you might be able to figure out that the "configuration" should be the same as you ascend! Hope this helps! plz comment! :cool:

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Yeah you are probably right masq, but the thing in that clip is im nearly using no "squeeze" it's just the mique thats got alot of gain so it sounds like the volume is alot higher than what it is.

If i add any ammount of squeeze when i slide i have no chance of getting into whistle at all, my voice has always been very head/falsetto dominant so if i squeeze from lets say an G5 my voice will attempt to use headvoice or falsetto so il stop around high C-D using that approach. That's saying my voice wants to blast it :P

If you listen to the clip you heard i quickly skipped some notes and a not very released lowerwhistlevoice, i always have trouble doing whistles in like f6-g6 and below down to A5, i guess thats why im having trouble. So my approach in that clip is i slide lazily if the squeeze come i just dont squeeze then some notes dont come out but a tiny second later my whistle kicks in.

But you are right that area needs to be released ive tried sls and many other stuffs but im not getting it to work, arnt that many people around that can give me pointers as very few knows whats to be done. Good bless internet

Il try using both your approachs though sliding down from whistlevoice is a hassel for me :P I think the tonguetrick will help abit so im exited thanks for all the help!

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anonimuzz,

Yes you can add distortion in that register. Distortion is created above the vocal folds so you actually don't have to wait untill your folds are "matured" to train it since they are not involved in making the "noise".

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Tks, Martin.

I heard your clip now, Jens. Your high whistle is great and sounds free, but as you said, you need work below too. I think masqutti already gave some great tips, so keep practising. I also have work to do in the higher stuff. I need a softer approach to surpass my high limit, but I tend to hit the notes loudly. But that's something I'll worry about later. My chest voice is a high priority for now -.-'

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Ok! Now here's that whistle voice with odd distortion. It's made with simple vocal fry. I'd say it's pretty interesting, coz it seems to have pretty odd frequenzy comparing to the actual whistle voice note. It's like and octave lower or something(?) making and illusion of double-note, I'd say it makes some deepness in to that sound ^^

http://www.box.net/shared/neck60ysrd

Sorry about that file format.. Vista basic recorder makes that wma...

Isn't that neat, coz the start seems "hard".. Well it was I didn't warm up or anything, in a hurry recorded that as I finally remembered :P But I like that distortion. I feel it can be balanced how much I want that fry -sound into that, When less it gets more that original whistle voice and sounds more natural. But, it's really hard to coordinate, that place is a really tiny and hard to get solid where i was. I'd like to hear that with such a connected voice, that anonimuzzz can do. As you can hear, mine whistle is also more of an "pure headvoice" than anything connected.

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Thank you for the clip! I'll try to sort that out and post a clip with my attempts next week, although I still haven't got it by now. I haven't had much time to practice, bah. The moment where the distortion was more stable, you were lower than usual for the whistle register. But even if I try to do it higher (when I can do it lower xD), that's the sound I'm looking for, right?

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Hi Jens, Anonimuzz and Masquetti

Do i have permission to use your files. They're great examples for my male clients?

They will also be used for my training programme that i am putting together. You will be credited as expected.

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whoa :cool:

Of course you can. But actually putting those into program(at least my clip) I prefer recording those kind of things with my condenser mic and properly warmed up etc.. so I can give you some quality! Actually i'm interested about that kind of thing so if you want something else(like audio clips representing... anything) I'd like to help.. just for fun :) Tho i'm not a pro singer and lack perfect technique but well... So sure you can use my clip(s) :)

- masqutti

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Masquitti did you notice that when you added distortion your voice drops out of the whistle? Your voice dropped almost 2 octaves when you added the dist in that clip...

Both Masquitti and anoni ask yourself this, have you heard any singer do distortion in the whistleregister in a healthy way? Have you heard them do it live? have you heard anyone be able to maintain it for a tour? Heck id be even suprised if you found a distorted soprano high C by a male in a resonant highvolumed voice...

And i get alittle disapointed by Martin who chimes in and gives them a blessing that it's not dangerous to do distortion in the whistleregister. Not even a tip about that distortion is something you should train in the middle high neutral before moving on up into higher coordinations... Martin please tell me what happens if they loose the twang of the epiglottis on a distorted B6 with that kind of volume anonomuz showed us? He probably will sometime due to all the vocalchanges that happens to a youngvoice... If he loses placement and drops in the throat? doesnt make the distortion the right way?

Nothing personal Martin I think you most of the times are veryspot on and one of the best contributions to this forum.

Well now that all is said i just wanna add:

I hate being a bitch, but I hope all will go well for you all i think you are all very talented.

SOS vocals sure you can use my clips, but if they will be inserted into some kind of program i would want to see before exactly how you use them.

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Well, I can't do the distortions at all. I'm trying to mimic a sound without having an explanation to follow, which doesn't work with me, so I already stopped trying.

And you're right, Jens. He was out of the whistle register, as I said earlier, but to my ears he didn't drop that low. I think the distortion is making it sound lower, but the "base note" is somewhere in the fifth octave, or not? Bah, it's exactly for not finding any perfect examples of distorted whistles that I opened this thread. I'm curious about this and want to know if it's possible to do it and how it's done. But I can tell it's a difficult subject.

SOS Vocals, my clips are in a public forum, so automatically (only for me, of course) you could do whatever you wanted with them. But I'd like to hear more about your program too. In what way is it different from so many others out there?

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Jens,

Well, what will happen is probably that he would start to cough a lot which is a PRIME indicator that he is doing it wrong but that's it - of course if he keep on doing it that way he will run into trouples but then he is not obeying his body's reaction!! And by the way sometimes it's easier to train distortion in the very higher parts of the voice compared to the middle or high. When we are that high our larynx is lifted and that helps us to keep the twang. :)

But what I stated in my ealier post was just that it CAN be done in a healthy way, and that age is not a matter - that's it. And also about placement: It's a vague and subjective term which in most cases really doesn't make sense.

And by the way I don't take it personal - I like a good debate! :)

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