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Lift up/Pull back

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D.Starr
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So I'm going through Pillars 2.0 and I'm lifting up and pulling back on the track and release and just find that I'm going a little too breathy and hooty and can't really connect to head voice, so in turn I begin to shout/belt.

I know from the lecture that it should be hooty at first to get to grips with it, but I just feel that I should be gripping more into head voice by now.

I drop my jaw,bite, tongue pushed against teeth and drop my larynx but I still get hooty. Now if I play around a little I can scale from chest to head effortlessly with no break on a hum or NG scale, and even resonant tracking in the Pillars package, but when it comes to singing it I just can't grasp it.

I've tried the part where Robert talks about starting in falsetto and singing the note and adding twang to get the note, but I just fry up and it sounds horrible. Either that or I sound like Donald Duck.

Would just like a few pointers.

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singing is more difficult. you have to understand you have words and consonants to deal with. it's going to take practice.

you're learning a new, very important technique. you're asking your vocal instrument to perform in a way it has never been asked to before. you aren't going to acheive this overnight.

the chest register and head register are inherently oppositional to each other. this means you have to let go of one to bridge to the other. it wouldn't hurt to do exercises that are intended to strengthen these registers independant of your other exercises.

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Work on doing the buzzing/resonant tracking with your songs and see if that makes it any easier. Just learn the feelings and muscle memory it takes to bridge to your head voice and try to recreate that same sensation during actual songs. Singing is definently harder, but the exercises will build your vocal reflexes. And you do need to learn to let go of the weight as you go up and switch the gears of your voice into the head voice. Don't push it. Learn to just let go and use the muscles required for head voice.

Melanie

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Thanks guys.

Yeah it's hard to fight the urge to let go of chest to go into head. Like a tug of war but less strenuous.

For the last 5 minutes I've simply done a scale of Meh from chest to a nice breathy falsetto just to get a feeling of the transition. It's hard not to flip, I can feel the bite that I need on the coordination at times and other times it goes, but I'll keep playing with it for a few days and report back.

EDIT

Would doing the NG scale help at all with this connected feeling and help me get this lift up/pull back sensation fixed in?

I find it a lot easier to get the feeling of loosing weight and getting into head voice more if I do this.

I always feel like I'm lifting up and letting go rather than keeping connected, very hard feeling.

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Starr... it sounds like you are "lifting up / pulling back"... you have to think of it as a work flow... once you are in your head voice, you need to engage your intrinsic anchoring... see "intrinsic anchoring" in the book and video lecture... if you dont apply intrinsic anchoring, your just going to get falsetto or ducky-duck... lift up / pull back is ONLY there to train the timing of bridging and placements... its not there to train connectivity... or making your head voice sound "boomy"... for that, you need the intrinsic anchoring...

Please provide an audio file of you doing a slow and controlled... octave siren from G3 to G4 if you are a man and from C4 to C5 if you are a woman... I need to hear what your doing... or not doing... or take 1 internet lesson with me and you'll be fine.

As my client, you can also send me an private email as well...

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Here ya go

https://www.box.net/shared/9hibgcun5p1584izbvgc

https://www.box.net/shared/m3qjoy7prvh4lbyz0c1z

This I tried the lift up and pull back, supporting and leverging the tongue, bite, drop jaw etc. Maybe I'm dropping the larynx a little too much?

I just seem to disconnect when going into falsetto and re-establishing head voice.

To me I feel like I'm belting rather than twanging in the head voice. Like I'm pushing too much, or not leaning back into head voice enough.

I think what I might be doing is when lifting up and pulling back maybe I'm adding just a little too much air to it, and letting it become too much air, rather than holding onto the tone. But Holding on the tone I'm finding is a little harder.

Maybe I need to work on my head voice a little more to strengthen it?

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Starr... it sounds like you are "lifting up / pulling back"... you have to think of it as a work flow... once you are in your head voice, you need to engage your intrinsic anchoring... see "intrinsic anchoring" in the book and video lecture... if you dont apply intrinsic anchoring, your just going to get falsetto or ducky-duck... lift up / pull back is ONLY there to train the timing of bridging and placements... its not there to train connectivity... or making your head voice sound "boomy"... for that, you need the intrinsic anchoring...

Please provide an audio file of you doing a slow and controlled... octave siren from G3 to G4 if you are a man and from C4 to C5 if you are a woman... I need to hear what your doing... or not doing... or take 1 internet lesson with me and you'll be fine.

As my client, you can also send me an private email as well...

If I can fit a question in, is lift up pull back with falsetto necessary for everyone? When I approach D4, I modify the lift and pull by backing off the volume and going for a more heady placement rather than falsetto... and my voice connects pretty well.

My understanding of bridging is that it begins around E4 for me, and I can get heady placement without resorting falsetto.

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If I can fit a question in, is lift up pull back with falsetto necessary for everyone? When I approach D4, I modify the lift and pull by backing off the volume and going for a more heady placement rather than falsetto... and my voice connects pretty well.

My understanding of bridging is that it begins around D4 for me, and I can get heady placement without resorting falsetto.

I can get a heady placement but I find it hard to get head voice successfully each time.

I find it easier at times to go through falsetto, get to grips with the note and apply head voice.

After I've done a few runs through with NG scales and lip bubbles, I find it a lot easier to get into head voice.

But still when I go from chest to head, I still find it hard to keep the connection.

I can feel a grip that I have to try and keep going or I loose connection and flip. It's like a fry-ish grip feeling I have to continue. Guess I just gotta keep workin on keeping this grip.

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I can get a heady placement but I find it hard to get head voice successfully each time.

I find it easier at times to go through falsetto, get to grips with the note and apply head voice.

After I've done a few runs through with NG scales and lip bubbles, I find it a lot easier to get into head voice.

But still when I go from chest to head, I still find it hard to keep the connection.

I can feel a grip that I have to try and keep going or I loose connection and flip. It's like a fry-ish grip feeling I have to continue. Guess I just gotta keep workin on keeping this grip.

I also get that fry while sirening up to A4. Lifting the tongue or tension in the tongue as you bridge gives rise to fry.

Try twanging with your tongue more forward and relaxed, works for me (most of the time.)

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I also get that fry while sirening up to A4. Lifting the tongue or tension in the tongue as you bridge gives rise to fry.

Try twanging with your tongue more forward and relaxed, works for me (most of the time.)

The tongue arched in the NG position right?

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If I can fit a question in, is lift up pull back with falsetto necessary for everyone? When I approach D4, I modify the lift and pull by backing off the volume and going for a more heady placement rather than falsetto... and my voice connects pretty well.

My understanding of bridging is that it begins around E4 for me, and I can get heady placement without resorting falsetto.

Falsetto is just a very light mass phonation. Lift up / pull back is "pulling back" to a very light mass phonation... it could be pure Falsetto or it could just be a very light, connected sound. It depends on the singer, the moment, the day... how "light" the mass is when you do "lift up / pull back" is less of an issue... the point is to just make the bridged maneuvar without choking or breaking, that is the point. If you can do it with more connectivity and a little bit more mass, great! If you can't, "pull back" the mass until you can. This calibration work trains your body how to let go of the constrictors, get the timing right (early...) and get a feel for the placements in the head voice.

Both of you... listen to "Lift up / pull back" video and audio lecture in your copy of "PIllars 2.0"... I just listened to it this morning on my way into the studio and I think its fairly clear... also, since "lift up / pull back" is essentially a siren... be sure to review the video and audio lecture, "Buzzing & Octave Sirens".

Asim, it seems to me, your doing it right... your explanation above is on... but your talk-track is a tad off ... but thats ok... that will come... I think your ok...

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I can get a heady placement but I find it hard to get head voice successfully each time.

I find it easier at times to go through falsetto, get to grips with the note and apply head voice.

After I've done a few runs through with NG scales and lip bubbles, I find it a lot easier to get into head voice.

But still when I go from chest to head, I still find it hard to keep the connection.

I can feel a grip that I have to try and keep going or I loose connection and flip. It's like a fry-ish grip feeling I have to continue. Guess I just gotta keep workin on keeping this grip.

Starr... please stop using the term "grip" in your talk track. We don't "grip" anything in singing unless you are throat choking chest puller. Getting the talk track right is part of getting this learned... the mind programs the body. See Psychosomatics in your book.

Psychosomatics refers to bodily symptoms caused by mental or emotional disturbance. The “mission critical” issue of managing body tension, controlling physical "ticks" for singers as they ascend higher in range (for example, singing a particular difficult passage of music or a siren in your training), is mostly brought on by Psychosomatic barriers, especially for singers that have a little bit of experience trianing. Fortunately, practicing good visualization habits can eliminate such “ticks.”

Ok, I listened to your audio files:

Sample one... nice onset!... then something "burped" and your onset got off balance for a moment and then you recovered... overall, ok keeping the 'phonation package" together. Now your top note G4 was shallow Starr. See "shallow placements" in your book and see "The Geometry of Vocal Technique" intercept graph ... your placement is shallow. You are on the right pitch and your in the head voice, but your holding onto it with constriction... its just a little left over residue from the belt/shout instincts you are trying to train out of... thats all... solution? DEEPER!!! Get deeper into the head voice... find a deeper placement and let go... like jumping off the high dive the first time, let go of the belt and constriction, go to a full head tone and then... engage the intrinsic anchoring... I agree, this sample was a bit shouty and grippy... because your placement is not good enough... BTW... this is not lift up / pull back at all... it it was... you would of had the proper head placement and it would NOT of been shallow.

Sample two... At 0:04... your vowel on the phonation package crapped out... do you hear it? It collapses to what I call a "non-vowel",, some kind of windy "uh-ish" thing... You did not maintain the "Eh" vowel... and that was the beginning of your problems. (kinda did on the sample 1 as well...)... so in TVS talk-track, "the vowel component of your phonation package collapsed". Continuing on into this "lift up / pull back" siren... you never lifted up, nor pulled back really... you just kinda charged straight into the vocal break on a shallow phonation package trajectory (see the dotted line on "the geometry of vocal technique") and didn't ever get to the head voice. In essence, on sample two, you just ran head long into your passaggio, never bridged and shouted a G4.

Your are either not bridging at all , or when you do, its shallow. Both are symptomatic of not pulling back to the head voice enough, your phonation package collapsing and generally speaking, your sirens are a little too fast as well. Lastly, there is no intrinsic anchoring at all in this sound. You need to push your tongue against your bottom teeth and modify the laryngeal configuration to a dampening , or dumped position as you pass through the vocal break.

To fix this, I would start by cleaning up your phonation package and working on applying the intrinsic anchoring as you approach your vocal break... while at the same time... I know its hard... pulling back to heady placements... its a balancing trick. It has several issues in it that are all contributing to your challenge... We could clean it up in about 30 minutes over a skype call...

work on the intrinsic anchoring, get deeper to the head voice and then upload another sample.

Hope this is helping...

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Wow a lot to take in, but it's ample enough for me to get working on.

I kinda find it hard to get into that heady placement without falling into falsetto or bridging. I have my tongue behind my teeth and pressing, but maybe I'm not duming my larynx enough? or too much? Plus I'm finding it hard to twang, extremely quacky.

Very hard to let go of that shout urge, if I pull back I begin to constrict my throat and get breathy.

Would adding a cry help at all?

Yeah I kinda fall out in a lot of areas, but I'm gunna soldier on and take in your constructive criticism.

I'm working on saving some money for a Skype call, little low on cash at the moment.

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I was just wondering, how do you consciously modify the laryngeal configuration to a dampening , or dumped position? I am not sure I am doing it right. Any tips? Done in isolation without the twang and the other intrinsic anchoring etc, what would it sound like?

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Starr: How can you get into a heady position if you don't bridge? You are suppose to be bridging to get to a heady position... and the "lift up / pull back" technique states in the videos and audio content... and above in my response, that you DO want to pull back to Falsetto if you need to, if only for a moment to win the bridging game. In short, you DO want Falsetto and you are bridging? I think your confused... go to the head voice Starr... stop trying to make your chest voice and belts "work"... it will NEVER work... you have to go to the head voice even if it sounds like a vaporous, falsetto crapper... it doesn't matter that it sounds good at this stage... what matters is that you learn to bridge to the head voice and in the beginning, it may be a big falsetto-ish.

FancyBird: If you are not phonating, laryngeal dumping would have no sound. How do you do it in isolation, away from the tongue leveraging and twang compression?

1. inhale quickly as if your suddenly surprised.

2. Yawn

3. do what we call a "gluck"

Watch the video tutorial on "intrinsic anchoring", its in the lecture. It involves putting your fingers on your larynx and you kind of need to see it... its hard to explain in a written forum.

Having said that, you most certainly to engage intrinsic anchoring consciously... it is something you are driving and controlling and throttling.

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Hey you guys... I just got back from the airport and I was listening to the audio version of "The Intrinsic Anchoring Set" from "The Four Pillars of Singing" 2.0 in my JEEP... and i felt that it did a pretty good job of explaining what it was about and how to practice it, short of a private lesson.

Here, I have created a special hidden page on my web site for sharing samples and content like this that I want you to hear to help you. Click on this link and listen to the lecture in "intrinsic anchoring". This is one of 22 key lectures on TVS vocal technique offered in "The Four Pillars of Singing" 2.0.

Starr, FancyBird... have you watched this video or listened to the audio? Make sure you study all the lecture content.

http://thevocaliststudio.com/tutorials-and-sample-phonations/

Hope this helps...

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I have your program, and at first the idea of the geography of deeper placement as the pitch gets higher made sense to me, but at the same time it was very abstract in terms of the "how to." But I just realized that deeper placement isn't just the product of pure willpower, it's the conscious result of the intrinsic anchoring set's components. On a side note, sometimes leveraging the tongue makes it hard for me to say some lyrics with a natural sound (but it sounds great on the vowel of the word), and sometimes leveraging the tongue causes me to lock my jaw too. Gotta work on separating the two.

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I have your program, and at first the idea of the geography of deeper placement as the pitch gets higher made sense to me, but at the same time it was very abstract in terms of the "how to." But I just realized that deeper placement isn't just the product of pure willpower, it's the conscious result of the intrinsic anchoring set's components. On a side note, sometimes leveraging the tongue makes it hard for me to say some lyrics with a natural sound (but it sounds great on the vowel of the word), and sometimes leveraging the tongue causes me to lock my jaw too. Gotta work on separating the two.

That's exactly what happens with me, I end up locking my jaw and concentrating on keeping my tongue in place and not dropping the larynx most times.

But yeah how would you sing words whilst the tongue is leveraged? Learn to enunciate with the tongue more, like the back of it?

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That's exactly what happens with me, I end up locking my jaw and concentrating on keeping my tongue in place and not dropping the larynx most times.

But yeah how would you sing words whilst the tongue is leveraged? Learn to enunciate with the tongue more, like the back of it?

guys, when you're singing up high in your head register, (g4 is up there! in fact, g4 can be a more challenging note than an e4) you are concentrating of keeping it supported, connected, and resonant. you are not going to be focusing as much on word pronunciation generally speaking. you need to ride the vowels.....such as "eh", "ah", "aw", whatever is needed.

listen to the great singers and up high they're all vowels (and they've selected a vowel shade for their particular voice). hope i've helped. bob

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I have your program, and at first the idea of the geography of deeper placement as the pitch gets higher made sense to me, but at the same time it was very abstract in terms of the "how to." But I just realized that deeper placement isn't just the product of pure willpower, it's the conscious result of the intrinsic anchoring set's components. On a side note, sometimes leveraging the tongue makes it hard for me to say some lyrics with a natural sound (but it sounds great on the vowel of the word), and sometimes leveraging the tongue causes me to lock my jaw too. Gotta work on separating the two.

Hi wildcat... sounds good.. Yes, "the geometry of vocal technique" is not an abstraction actually, as some things can be in voice training. Its tangible. Its just an "x/y" intercept graph that accounts for time, resonant placement and pitch in our training and singing. The higher the pitch , the deeper the placement.

The tongue should not "lock" anything down... maybe your leveraging too hard.

Also, you need the tongue to articulate consonants... the tongue could not stay behind the teeth 100% of the time.. you do have to use it for lyrics... but when ever you are sustaining through an open vowel, you place and push agaisnt the bottom teeth... especially when you are bridging or singing in the head voice.

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That's exactly what happens with me, I end up locking my jaw and concentrating on keeping my tongue in place and not dropping the larynx most times.

But yeah how would you sing words whilst the tongue is leveraged? Learn to enunciate with the tongue more, like the back of it?

No, you use the tongue to articulate lyrics and consonants as you need to. Your tongue is not sitting there 100% of the time... obvisously. You press when you are sustaining through open formants/vowels.

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guys, when you're singing up high in your head register, (g4 is up there! in fact, g4 can be a more challenging note than an e4) you are concentrating of keeping it supported, connected, and resonant. you are not going to be focusing as much on word pronunciation generally speaking. you need to ride the vowels.....such as "eh", "ah", "aw", whatever is needed.

listen to the great singers and up high they're all vowels (and they've selected a vowel shade for their particular voice). hope i've helped. bob

Excellent Bob, thank you. Bob is right... stop worrying about the articulation sounding like it would in speech mode. Your NOT reciting poetry, your singing... so most of the vowels have been modified. With modified vowels, your just giving the impression that you are articulating it perfectly to the standards of speech, but you are not. Also, once you lock your intrinsic anchoring, you have to hold and "sing through it"... like Bob is hinting at... you configure your formant and sing through it.

To Bob's point, the fidelity or purity of the vowels and articulation of the language degrades when in singing. It kinda becomes a more "mushy" wash of open vowels and diphthongs... in the context of singing, it works.

See Vowel Modification lecture in your copy of "Pillars" 2.0.

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