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Troubles with "All That I Bleed"

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Keith
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I recorded me singing "All That I Bleed" by Savatage so you guys / gals can here what my voice is doing on the high notes at the second part of the chorus. I'm not sure what is going on, but to me it feels like my voice is breaking into falsetto. Let me know what cha think please :)

http://www.soundclick.com/player/single_player.cfm?songid=11027062&q=hi&newref=1

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Yes, this is falsetto. And I think it is not terrible. Use your head voice instead of falsetto. And yet, I like your tone. Nice job.

I would love to use me head voice! But for some reason I can't. It just won;t happen. :( !

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That sounds really good. You are breaking into a light head voice or falsetto up there. It is CT dominant. If you want to sound like chest up there you are going to have to start really working on that area and bridging into head voice. It takes time but you definitely can do it. It is this fine coordination between TA and CT in that area of the voice. It is natural to let go of TA and flip into CT only singing (falsetto). I recommend taking a look at VocalPower's videos where he shows you how to do it and gives some great siren exercises on the "ng".

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That sounds really good. You are breaking into a light head voice or falsetto up there. It is CT dominant. If you want to sound like chest up there you are going to have to start really working on that area and bridging into head voice. It takes time but you definitely can do it. It is this fine coordination between TA and CT in that area of the voice. It is natural to let go of TA and flip into CT only singing (falsetto). I recommend taking a look at VocalPower's videos where he shows you how to do it and gives some great siren exercises on the "ng".

I do those excersizes. It's funny, I can generally hit those notes in head voice while doing sirens and the adducting stuff, but when I sing it, i just go into falseto. I actually thought that my falsetto was my head voice for the last year or so, and I developed it, and thats why I can sing with it really loud. So I have trained myself to do it wrong, and I;m having a real hard time fixing it. :(

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Well if you're having success going into head voice smoothly the next step is to start bridging exercise with open vowels. The "ng" is a great warmup. The "lip roll" is also great for warming up and getting TA and CT to work together in the F4 - C5 range. They also force you to use less air. After warming up with these for a good 10min you could start on scales and arpeggios on the open vowels - "eh" or "ay" are good because you don't have to modify them too much in the passagio area. Lunte says "eh" is the most vocal friendly vowel.

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You have a very beautiful voice - I liked your singing very much!

I have to admit this is one of my favorite songs by one of my all time favorite bands.

The fact that you've worked on and developed your falsetto is a great plus to your vocal abilities.

One more advantage is that there is no strain whatsoever and your pitch is amazing.

Sth I'd like to add to what guitartrek said is that it takes constant, everyday practice, usually 30 to 45min.

Also don't leave out any of the other rules ; a controlled breath support, excellent hydration and good rest.

About the larynx ... I've found out that it does rise ever so slightly as I go higher once I reach a certain part of my range but not to the point where it hinders the production of sound or anything.

It can be trained to rise or lower at will.

The point where your voice starts to break... have you tried thinning it out progressively as you approach and go past that point while using Geno's suggestions ?

It took me months to do it but it works.

Keep it up man, you're doing great already!

Thanos

PS. While you still have that beautiful falsetto, you could try a King Diamond/Mercyful Fate cover

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You have a very beautiful voice - I liked your singing very much!

I have to admit this is one of my favorite songs by one of my all time favorite bands.

The fact that you've worked on and developed your falsetto is a great plus to your vocal abilities.

One more advantage is that there is no strain whatsoever and your pitch is amazing.

Sth I'd like to add to what guitartrek said is that it takes constant, everyday practice, usually 30 to 45min.

Also don't leave out any of the other rules ; a controlled breath support, excellent hydration and good rest.

About the larynx ... I've found out that it does rise ever so slightly as I go higher once I reach a certain part of my range but not to the point where it hinders the production of sound or anything.

It can be trained to rise or lower at will.

The point where your voice starts to break... have you tried thinning it out progressively as you approach and go past that point while using Geno's suggestions ?

It took me months to do it but it works.

Keep it up man, you're doing great already!

Thanos

PS. While you still have that beautiful falsetto, you could try a King Diamond/Mercyful Fate cover

Thanks :)

I can't sing very long in falsetto - it makes all the muscles around my throat tense up, then I jaw jut then my TMJ kicks in. I actually disloged my jaw trying to sing "Take Hold of the Flame" by queensryche once. So, here is what happens when I try and thin out the notes- no noise comes out. I literally stop singing and just air comes out. Sometimes it turns to fry, but generally, the sound stops. I also need to add that I quit smoking a few days agoi - and that may be the reason for some of my issues.

I sing a pretty good "Sleep" by Savatage also lol.

I saw Savatage in Buffalo, NY back in 2002 ish and they had Damond Jinyia at that time. When he sang wake of magellan and all that I bleed, I was like - wow.... What a voice on that guy! I facebooked him a while back and asked him what voice of mix of voices he used in the high parts of their songs and he replied "On a good voice day, everything I sing above middle c is mixed voice" He sings higher in mixed than I can with the falsetto trick I learned. I got the same answer from Zak Stevens.

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Here is something (of the many things) I do not know - when doing lip rolls, and vowels, do I hold my larnx down? Or do I just try and make sure it stays in a resting position?

No, you wouldn't do anything different with the larynx with the semi-occluded vowels verses regular vowels.

You may get differing opinions on this, but I don't purposely change my larynx position for anything - I just let it seek it's own comfortable spot - I do not manipulate it. When you are starting to go into head and tilting, the larynx needs to come up a little and rock forward, so holding the larynx down purposely may be counter productive.

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I just did some really slow sirens, and it occcured to me that I don't even have a head voice! I can feel this shift in my throat in the upper portion of my range - So I think that I'm just going into falsetto no matter what I try. This is frustrating :(

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What help me to turn my falsetto into normal voice was copying vocalist whose timbre of voice is similar to mine.

In my case that person was Jean-Michel Byron.

Here an example, high moment from TOTO Rosanna --------> http://www.box.net/shared/9jvl4sf181f13eaqsmra

Take a look how much cry (to much to be honest) is used in my clip. Cry and TWANG are your friends now.

The process will be easier for you because your first language is English.

Yes you can :)

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So, to sing in the head voice at first, I should Cry?? lol - I'm already crying! Is it like a 1/2 yawn, 1/2 cry? Who has a voice whose timbre is similar to mine? Do you hear any head voice in that song anywherem or am I pulling chest the whole time (except in falsetto of course) ?

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I just did some really slow sirens, and it occcured to me that I don't even have a head voice! I can feel this shift in my throat in the upper portion of my range - So I think that I'm just going into falsetto no matter what I try. This is frustrating :(

The shift you are feeling is when the CT takes over - and the rocking begins as your folds start stretching. That's normal and it is necessary. Even though I've been successful at blurring the lines between chest and head, I still can feel a spot where CT takes over. It sounds the same, but there is that feeling. As I continue to train, this feeling is less and less. Hopefully someday there won't be any difference.

Can you siren on an "NG" up to D5 without a break? If so, you've connected chest to head because chest cannot go up that high.

Can you post some examples of you sirening on "ng" and "eh"? Ascending scales would be helpful too - like starting on C4 up to C5. Try it really light, and at full volume.

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Falsetto has that same feeling as head because both head and falsetto are CT dominant. The difference is if your TA is still active. TA is dominant in Chest, so if you keep TA active when CT takes over then you'll get a "chesty" head voice. You can vary the "chestiness" by throttling the TA up or down. If you turn it all the way off you'll get falsetto.

Here's a great chart that explains it:

To me it sounds like you have a little TA activity going on, which would qualify as head voice. You just need to figure out how to increase it.

The problem begins when you "carry up" chest. Or "pulling chest". The stronger the TA, the thicker the folds. When you reach a point where CT starts stretching the folds, if the folds are too thick, you can't stretch them any longer. Then the TA suddenly gives away. Like you were holding a heavy weight for so long and couldn't hold it any longer and dropped the weight. When TA suddenly relaxes or "gives up" you crack into falsetto.

The trick is to start relaxing the TA slightly a few notes before CT takes over. If you start throttling it down - very gradually and very controlled - right before, and as you go higher in pitch, you'll be able to produce a thick "chesty" head voice. You'll also have no break. This is not natural for most people and can take a while to master.

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Ok, Here is a running scale and a few sirens. http://www.soundclick.com/player/single_player.cfm?songid=11032209&q=hi&newref=1

Here is an original song that I sang when I first started singing - without warm ups or any insight what so ever as to how to sing properly! LOL

http://www.soundclick.com/player/single_player.cfm?songid=11027058&q=hi&newref=1

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Ha I got ya.

In 1.50, second siren. More TWANG, sing on your MASK, and you will be there.

The more you practice the less mistakes there will be.

Good way for me to practice head voice is doing sirens in songs.

I love "Dream On" for ex. It is easy. http://www.box.net/shared/s8hxazx459qhenfqiaua

Listen to me, choose song you like and do it :)

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Ok, Here is a running scale and a few sirens. http://www.soundclick.com/player/single_player.cfm?songid=11032209&q=hi&newref=1

Sounds good! You are definitely in head voice - not falsetto. You can sometimes hear when you go into head, but for the most part it is pretty smooth. Just keep on working on sirens and scales on different vowels to iron out the transition. Warm up with the semi-occluded (ng and lip rolls) and then the open vowels. "Eh" doesn't require much modification - other vowels need to be modified in the passagio area.

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Sweet! Good info to hear. I was afraid I didn't have a head voice at all LOL. My range is horrid right now. so I hope doing all this stuff will help! So, here is my warm up / practice routine:

Lip rols on 5 tone & octave scales, Humming on the same scales, trills on the same scales, "na na na, mum mum mum, yay yay yay on arpeggio scales, then vowel sirens -ee to eh to ee etc. Is that sifficient?

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Those sound like a great set of exercises. If you keep that same routine for a while you'll see improvements for sure - in head and range. Where you have a limit in range, just think about thinning the folds more - make the sound smaller - less air. That usually cures it. Careful with extending the range - try to push your self once per day for your highest note. Just do it once - and don't try to kill yourself. If it feels wrong it is wrong. The next day try it again. Your muscles are going to need some recouperation at night. If you work gradually - no more than one 1/2 step a day, you'll be able to add serious range quickly. Don't push it. You don't have to increase a 1/2 step each day.

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