Jump to content

Lip Rolls and Tongue Trills

Rate this topic


neugie92
 Share

Recommended Posts

1. I started doing Lip Rolls and Tongue Trills these because ive been reading that it will help me eliminate breaks in my voice. Am I wasting my time? I already have fairly good breath support.

2. When your doing these to eliminate your "break" should you work to make the notes that feel more comfrotable in a falsetto/head voice come out in chest. and vice versa?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They are semi-occluded phonations meant to intentionally slow down air flow. They are really great to do, like Keith said, for warm-ups. Slowing the air will start to balance the air pressure above and below the folds. This sets up the proper air pressure of what it should feel like during normal singing. Because the a lip roll will only allow a certain amount of air out, these exercises force you to use the correct air flow. This sets you up for a good practice session. It can be as simple as doing some sirens up and down through the break. Or what I do is about 5 minutes of semi-occluded scales and arpeggios at the beginning of a practice session. They are really great for getting rid of the break, as it also forces you to blend the CT / TA coordination (head / chest). "ng" is another one that works very well for this.

To eliminate the break, do scales, arpeggios, or sirens throughout your entire range - not just in the break area.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Am I wasting my time? I already have fairly good breath support.

no you are not wasting your time doing lip rolls. lip rolls are a staple, tried and tested, wonderful exercise with numerous benefits:

every vocal coach or book i've ever read speaks of its virtues.

1. massages the entire laryngeal area. folds get a nice healthy, gentle massage and stimulates blood flow.

2. great warm up (and warm down) for the voice after a stenuous workout.

3. serves as a barometer of how well you support the breath by the evenness or lack of eveness of the lips bubbling.

4. helps extend range. your lowest and highest lip bubble note is generally indicative of your lowest and highest sung note.

5. helps smooth out the rough spots to better connect the tone much like a siren.

6. helps to keep pushing the voice in check. volume fluctuation in the bubbles is indicative of pushing.

7. loosens up the articulators, tongue, lips, all of it.

8. doing extended lip bubbles one one breath helps tone the support muscles and helps with metering your expiration skill.

i love that exercise..can you tell? lol!!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think,lip bubbles also depend somewhat on structure. Some people have thick, full lips and bubbling happens quite easily. Others, because of thin lips, receding jaw, or both, might induce some strain trying to create lip bubbles.

I think resonant tracking can achieve as much as bubbles for much of the loosening. But what I like about bubbles is that they help to meter air.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

hello. I'm new around here and I'd like to ask a very basic question about liprolls.

How are they supposed to be done inside the mouth?

I am aware that the work is on the lips, but how about the face, and tongue and uvula inside.

should i start smiling, pushing my lips forward (shape of a kiss)?

should I be biting, semi open mouth, closed mouth? (letting only lips close mouth and not your teeth)

should my tongue be curved donwards the floor of my mouth, touching the down front teeth and pushing the root forward, or like i'm having a ball on my mouth as in AH.

should i imagine my uvula up, attempt to gargle and keep that shape and then buble my lips?

should i set my cheeks upwards and my eyes as if i was yawing, or should i set a very down-like face to lip-roll?

as far as i know, the best the liprolls should be slow and never pushed, right?

thank you in advance, and I'm sorry If I'm too specific.

I might be overthinking this, but i realised with singing the smallest detail matters since everything is connected!

:) thank you again!

PD: I just hope I got across my points! i haven't worked with my english

Link to comment
Share on other sites

hello. I'm new around here and I'd like to ask a very basic question about liprolls.

How are they supposed to be done inside the mouth?

I am aware that the work is on the lips, but how about the face, and tongue and uvula inside.

should i start smiling, pushing my lips forward (shape of a kiss)?

should I be biting, semi open mouth, closed mouth? (letting only lips close mouth and not your teeth)

should my tongue be curved donwards the floor of my mouth, touching the down front teeth and pushing the root forward, or like i'm having a ball on my mouth as in AH.

should i imagine my uvula up, attempt to gargle and keep that shape and then buble my lips?

should i set my cheeks upwards and my eyes as if i was yawing, or should i set a very down-like face to lip-roll?

as far as i know, the best the liprolls should be slow and never pushed, right?

thank you in advance, and I'm sorry If I'm too specific.

I might be overthinking this, but i realised with singing the smallest detail matters since everything is connected!

:) thank you again!

PD: I just hope I got across my points! i haven't worked with my english

there are plenty of resources to help you if you take the time to look..this is one of the best videos on the subject.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

^ Outstanding video! Love that dude.

There are not enough words in the English language to describe how damn much I hated lip bubbles and tongue trills when I first started. They appeared to be so easy, yet I couldn't do them to save my life. It was a struggle indeed to finally get them going.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 6 months later...

1. I started doing Lip Rolls and Tongue Trills these because ive been reading that it will help me eliminate breaks in my voice. Am I wasting my time? I already have fairly good breath support.

2. When your doing these to eliminate your "break" should you work to make the notes that feel more comfrotable in a falsetto/head voice come out in chest. and vice versa?

I'm adding to these (instead of starting a new thread on lip-rolls). For some reasons I can now finally do lip-rolls

(without supporting with fingers in my cheeks). I still have to practice not making the lips go faster as I ascend.

I now have some questions because I want to know if I'm doing them correctly and what I can gain from including them in my vocal training.

1. Should I try to use a specific volume, or just whatever gets the lips rolling? Especially when changing pitch.

2. When going over say E4, what should it feel like? Like a falsetto-flip into headvoice? Connected into headvoice? Like I'm entering mixvoice/curbing?

3: When going over say G4, what should it feel like?

4. Besides helping with breath-management, what kind of "voice" does the lip-rolls help develop? (chest, mix, head, all)? I really want to know it helps with "curbing" as CVT call it

5. When doing NG-sirens/slides, what kind of volume should I use? I feel that most of the time flip into falsetto as I ascend, or that I can't come out of headvoice as I descend.

Thanks for you time and patience!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm adding to these (instead of starting a new thread on lip-rolls). For some reasons I can now finally do lip-rolls

(without supporting with fingers in my cheeks). I still have to practice not making the lips go faster as I ascend.

I now have some questions because I want to know if I'm doing them correctly and what I can gain from including them in my vocal training.

1. Should I try to use a specific volume, or just whatever gets the lips rolling? Especially when changing pitch.

2. When going over say E4, what should it feel like? Like a falsetto-flip into headvoice? Connected into headvoice? Like I'm entering mixvoice/curbing?

3: When going over say G4, what should it feel like?

4. Besides helping with breath-management, what kind of "voice" does the lip-rolls help develop? (chest, mix, head, all)? I really want to know it helps with "curbing" as CVT call it

5. When doing NG-sirens/slides, what kind of volume should I use? I feel that most of the time flip into falsetto as I ascend, or that I can't come out of headvoice as I descend.

Thanks for you time and patience!

Honestly you shouldn't be thinking about anything, but staying relaxed and comfortable while doing these. They are meant to make singing easier, so thinking about this stuff will only complicate things. Just do them at a nice comfortable speaking voice volume and as you ascend make sure that you don't get any louder or softer.

I live by these rules and when I sing it becomes just as easy as a lip roll.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

^ Outstanding video! Love that dude.

There are not enough words in the English language to describe how damn much I hated lip bubbles and tongue trills when I first started. They appeared to be so easy, yet I couldn't do them to save my life. It was a struggle indeed to finally get them going.

It's easy to do if you pull up your cheeks with one hand.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Honestly you shouldn't be thinking about anything, but staying relaxed and comfortable while doing these. They are meant to make singing easier, so thinking about this stuff will only complicate things. Just do them at a nice comfortable speaking voice volume and as you ascend make sure that you don't get any louder or softer.

I live by these rules and when I sing it becomes just as easy as a lip roll.

Excellent reply, Iz.

Breakin, methinks thou art overthinking it a bit. Just start somewhere and go whereever you comfortable can. lip bubbles is more about warming up then athletic feats of strength and darig-do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Excellent reply, Iz.

Breakin, methinks thou art overthinking it a bit. Just start somewhere and go whereever you comfortable can. lip bubbles is more about warming up then athletic feats of strength and darig-do.

Thanks for the answers, izz and ronws!

Well they are said to be good, but I was just wondering if I should think "placement", "twang", "maintain volume" when doing it or if it just doesn't work like that.

The NG-sound forces you to be keep the sound in the nose and activates twang. It just works. I was wondering if it was the same with liprolls or if you have to do it right. I think I'm making them go faster as I ascend so I have to work on that if I should do them daily...!

What about the NG-sirens? It feels like I can go up but I can't return back down to the same place (like low chest->high head->low head).

Thanks for all the experience you are sharing!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not as good at lip bubbles as others, thanks to the thin lips of my german and celtic heritage (german, english, irish, and scottish.) But I do okay with tongue rolls. And found that easier because of my study of languages. (about 3 years of german, and learning spanish on the job. When I speak spanish, I sound mexican, as opposed to gringos sounding like a gringo speaking spanish.) I can pronounce Guerra de Rosas authentically but I am not as good with lip bubbles. The point of either variation is developing the right amount of air flow.

As for where the note should feel, it will feel in the head, more likely just behind uvula, that dangly thing in the back of your mouth. That is the back of the soft palate.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Excellent reply, Iz.

Breakin, methinks thou art overthinking it a bit. Just start somewhere and go whereever you comfortable can. lip bubbles is more about warming up then athletic feats of strength and darig-do.

Thanks Ron

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey guys, if anyone has any tips on how to do lip rolls without using a hand to support the cheeks I'd appreciate hearing them. What is odd is that I find (even when trying to breathe from my diaphragm ) that I can only sustain for a few seconds when I don't hold my face. I'm even trying to hold back on the air as well...

Zed

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey guys, if anyone has any tips on how to do lip rolls without using a hand to support the cheeks I'd appreciate hearing them. What is odd is that I find (even when trying to breathe from my diaphragm ) that I can only sustain for a few seconds when I don't hold my face. I'm even trying to hold back on the air as well...

Zed

It is best to use the hand because it takes a smaller amount of air to get the lips moving this way. When singing you want to be using the least amount of air possible. I have big lips, but I still use my hand...This is not to be a concern.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 pointers that have helped me with lip rolls: When you do them

A) think "slightly dumb/dopy/yawny sound" and

B) think "constantly keep blowing bubbles" (i.e. keep the rythm of the bubbles as even as possible) and

C) keep the volume fairly low and don't increase the volume as you go up in pitch (you might even want to think of the volume DECREASING as you go up).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey guys, if anyone has any tips on how to do lip rolls without using a hand to support the cheeks I'd appreciate hearing them. What is odd is that I find (even when trying to breathe from my diaphragm ) that I can only sustain for a few seconds when I don't hold my face. I'm even trying to hold back on the air as well...

Zed

also, by using your hands, you take away the weight of the cheeks and prevent yourself from blowing air into them. I don't think it matters either way if you're getting the right sounds, however holding the cheeks is usually a lot easier for beginners.

Honestly you shouldn't be thinking about anything, but staying relaxed and comfortable while doing these. They are meant to make singing easier, so thinking about this stuff will only complicate things. Just do them at a nice comfortable speaking voice volume and as you ascend make sure that you don't get any louder or softer.

I live by these rules and when I sing it becomes just as easy as a lip roll.

Following on from this point, i think it's worth saying that if the exercise does not work for you or you are straining to do it then maybe try something else. Just because it is a popular exercise doesn't mean you HAVE to use it as there's no point in straining to perform an exercises that is supposed to relax you. It's like trying to fall asleep; the harder you try, the less you can relax.. it's counter productive. I myself find that tongue trills are like this for me. I carry a lot of tension in my tongue and doing this exercise just exacerbates that.. so i don't do them! I have found other ways of relaxing the tongue muscle. Try other options then you can always return to them and you may find you can do them easier and in a manner that is beneficial.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 pointers that have helped me with lip rolls: When you do them

A) think "slightly dumb/dopy/yawny sound" and

B) think "constantly keep blowing bubbles" (i.e. keep the rythm of the bubbles as even as possible) and

C) keep the volume fairly low and don't increase the volume as you go up in pitch (you might even want to think of the volume DECREASING as you go up).

I've been trying to follow the suggestions in this thread, as well as using my fingers in cheeks yet again to lift off some tension. It helps to know that I only should focus on the bubbles, not resonance, "hold" etc.

A problem that I found is that as I'm ascending I need to squeeze a bit. I think that what is happening is that I'm using underdeveloped muscle under my jaw. Jim Gillette talks about it here (I've set the link to the exact spot):

Does this resonates with you guys/gals? Do you have a killer exercise for these muscles? I clearly need to work on them if I want to ascend with liprolls (and I've noticed strain here when singing as well :)).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

also, by using your hands, you take away the weight of the cheeks and prevent yourself from blowing air into them. I don't think it matters either way if you're getting the right sounds, however holding the cheeks is usually a lot easier for beginners.

Following on from this point, i think it's worth saying that if the exercise does not work for you or you are straining to do it then maybe try something else. Just because it is a popular exercise doesn't mean you HAVE to use it as there's no point in straining to perform an exercises that is supposed to relax you. It's like trying to fall asleep; the harder you try, the less you can relax.. it's counter productive. I myself find that tongue trills are like this for me. I carry a lot of tension in my tongue and doing this exercise just exacerbates that.. so i don't do them! I have found other ways of relaxing the tongue muscle. Try other options then you can always return to them and you may find you can do them easier and in a manner that is beneficial.

Great post! I couldn't have said it better.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been trying to follow the suggestions in this thread, as well as using my fingers in cheeks yet again to lift off some tension. It helps to know that I only should focus on the bubbles, not resonance, "hold" etc.

A problem that I found is that as I'm ascending I need to squeeze a bit. I think that what is happening is that I'm using underdeveloped muscle under my jaw. Jim Gillette talks about it here (I've set the link to the exact spot):

Does this resonates with you guys/gals? Do you have a killer exercise for these muscles? I clearly need to work on them if I want to ascend with liprolls (and I've noticed strain here when singing as well :)).

I have this problem too. I believe it stems from improper breath support. I can usually tell when I am supporting the voice properly because the throat is free and the tone just seems to flow without any tension. When we don't support the tone correctly other muscles around the larynx try to over compensate for the poor breath support by tightening the constrictors which blocks the air flow.

I find it most helpful to do plenty of breathing exercises before vocalizing.

I also feel that when tension around the jaw and tongue are released the vibrato and support comes in naturally.

What you can do to achieve this is take care of your body...I know you're like duh! but it is not so obvious.

Massages and stretches around the muscles of respiration, articulation, and and compensatory muscles. In other words stretch, massage, and relieve as much stress as possible.

1. Stretch the muscles around the core

2. Make sure posture is up to par/Not slouched and Not too rigid.

3. Massage and stretch the muscles of the jaw and bottom of tongue under your chin.

4. Allow yourself to be vulnerable...Singing without tension is not always easy because we are not use to the feeling. Just relax and get accustomed to it :-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have this problem too. I believe it stems from improper breath support. I can usually tell when I am supporting the voice properly because the throat is free and the tone just seems to flow without any tension. When we don't support the tone correctly other muscles around the larynx try to over compensate for the poor breath support by tightening the constrictors which blocks the air flow.

I find it most helpful to do plenty of breathing exercises before vocalizing.

I also feel that when tension around the jaw and tongue are released the vibrato and support comes in naturally.

What you can do to achieve this is take care of your body...I know you're like duh! but it is not so obvious.

Massages and stretches around the muscles of respiration, articulation, and and compensatory muscles. In other words stretch, massage, and relieve as much stress as possible.

1. Stretch the muscles around the core

2. Make sure posture is up to par/Not slouched and Not too rigid.

3. Massage and stretch the muscles of the jaw and bottom of tongue under your chin.

4. Allow yourself to be vulnerable...Singing without tension is not always easy because we are not use to the feeling. Just relax and get accustomed to it :-)

HM From the video Jim Gilette seems to be saying that it is normal to be tired there and you should rest. Seems like he is saying that it is a muscle to build. Do I understand you correctly that you think that I should not build that muscle but rather relax more and not use it (supplying it with proper breath management)?

Perhaps you are now able to relax since you trained that muscle it to a certain level, so that you now can relax?

I think I need to work on my breath management either way so I think your are right...!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are many exercises for many things from singing to running to hot dog eating contests...you name it :) However just exercising doesn't do much sometimes. Like fighters for example. I have trained people who really didn't know any better and would be banging out pushups and lifting weights, doing all kinds of bicep and triceps exercises believing that strong arms equals a strong punch. Not really. Those exercises aren't bad and they can help but not without "actually punching" and working on punching a target (bag, person etc) and working the task in action. THAT is what really trains the muscles involved and you get them from every angle how they need to be used (assuming you have the technique down). I can take a guy with little muscular strength and a train him (through body mechanics) to punch harder then the guy who curls 100 lb dumbells. (I use curls only as an example but actually it's the tri's that push the arm out as in a punch).

But on the other hand if you know how to punch and are actively fighting and hitting the bag to develop power "and" using the supplementary exercises, and applying them as you would and in relation to your task/goal, then you will excel.

Singing is no different IMO. Sing man.....sing, sing, sing.

Just my two cents :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...