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running out of breath - please help

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Olem
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Well, this is very frustrating, i have tried all the things there are in the schoolbook but i am still not able to sing a whole song that is highpitched. I try to sing with a yawn, with some cry and to lock my support but nothing is working. I am suspecting the pull-chest thing but the thing is it doesn´t feel very tough in the beginning, I have tried to inhale after each phrase or to inhale after one verse but nothing helps. I like to sing chesty high notes a´la Dickinson for example and the thing is, when i do sirens i feel that my voice thins out and it sounds good but when i start to sing a song i fail all the time. I send you an example:

http://www.box.net/shared/dd8g36nk9hl7icg5qel7

Thanx in advance/ Ola

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IMO, you overdo the yawn. That makes the high notes much more difficult than they should be. First step for you would be to reduce the yawn and make the sound slightly more twangy. See where that leads you and post another clip with that sound. Then we can work from there.

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Come to think of it, your sound there is a bit like the sound you hear when SLS singers do the mum, mum, mum exercise. If your used to doing that exercise, make sure you do NOT sing this song with that song. Like I said, less yawn, more twang. Not much, but .... just enough.

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olem,

keep in mind this is a tough segment for a lot of singers. from what i hear (i don't know the song) you have to hit the ground running spot on with b4. you simply might not be there development-wise yet. the tessitura is a factor here too. it sounds like you have to straddle a4, b4 and that's demanding.

you need to lock in your support and free up the throat and up there you need to modify your vowels for sure.

here's what i would do: write down each word in that phrase and come up with the vowels (and vowel shades) to ride through on.

also go over it and set up your breath points so you can make it through stamina wise.

every one of those words has to sung a certain way to make that fly without constriction.

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IMO, you overdo the yawn. That makes the high notes much more difficult than they should be. First step for you would be to reduce the yawn and make the sound slightly more twangy. See where that leads you and post another clip with that sound. Then we can work from there.

Well, JP, i just wanted to free up the throat and sound meatier but if i can hit high notes easier if i reduce it a little i certainly will try that.

Come to think of it, your sound there is a bit like the sound you hear when SLS singers do the mum, mum, mum exercise. If your used to doing that exercise, make sure you do NOT sing this song with that song. Like I said, less yawn, more twang. Not much, but .... just enough.

Yes i am doing that exercise sometimes and i have found it to be a great way to transcend to your head voice in your passagio. I don´t want to have too much twang in my voice, i certainly don´t want to have a sound similair to Axl Rose for example, he was an excellent singer it´s not that but i just prefer another timbre.

olem,

keep in mind this is a tough segment for a lot of singers. from what i hear (i don't know the song) you have to hit the ground running spot on with b4. you simply might not be there development-wise yet. the tessitura is a factor here too. it sounds like you have to straddle a4, b4 and that's demanding.

you need to lock in your support and free up the throat and up there you need to modify your vowels for sure.

here's what i would do: write down each word in that phrase and come up with the vowels (and vowel shades) to ride through on.

also go over it and set up your breath points so you can make it through stamina wise.

every one of those words has to sung a certain way to make that fly without constriction.

Yes, Bob, this song is mostly between A4 and B4. Any suggestions of what vowels that might be or i have to find out myself and see which one is resonating best. Well, breath points i have tried to set up at different spots but so far with no success.

Thanx alot, Jon and Bob for your sharings. I´ll be back

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Bruce Dickinson yawns less than you did in that clip, so you shouldn't worry about sounding too twangy. Just listen more closely to Bruce and hear that he's twangier than you there. And he's not even the twangiest singer around.

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Ok, so i tried to sing with the twang sound, did some quack noises before, i have practised twang excercises before so it´s nothing new. Unfortunately it didn´t make things easier. Here is an example:

http://www.box.net/shared/sxvs84qetp2l7mpanxy8

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Ok, so i tried to sing with the twang sound, did some quack noises before, i have practised twang excercises before so it´s nothing new. Unfortunately it didn´t make things easier. Here is an example:

http://www.box.net/shared/sxvs84qetp2l7mpanxy8

that's because it's not easy. you simply may not be ready to sing this high and of this duration of high.

send over the exact words you need to sing.

it took me months to be able to sing foreigner's "urgent." that's what brought me to study voice. i was physically and vocally incapable of singing that song strong.

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that's because it's not easy. you simply may not be ready to sing this high and of this duration of high.

send over the exact words you need to sing.

it took me months to be able to sing foreigner's "urgent." that's what brought me to study voice. i was physically and vocally incapable of singing that song strong.

No, ready i´m definately not, that´s for sure, but right now i just try to figure out why i tense up. When you say you were physically incapable of singing "urgent", what do you mean by that? Was it your support or was it something else? This song is "the trooper" from Iron Maiden and here are the words from the first two verses:

You take my life but I'll take yours too

You fire your musket but I run you through

So when you're waiting for the next attack

You'd better stand there's no turning back.

The bugle sounds - the charge begins

But on this battlefield no one wins

The smell of acrid smoke and horses breath

As I plunge on into certain death.

You're squeezing your throat slightly too much. Can you try to record it again and this time try to squeeze just a tiny bit less?

Of course, Jon, but then i think i´ll have to raise my volume.

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Now ive listened to Both versions once again... I only feel like its À matter of time before you can nail this, just get the feeling your body isnt quite used to the sounds you are trying to do.

Try sing this line 4 Times à day and really Concentrate to make it feel as effortless as possible. Dont focus your mind on it to much cause youve got it.

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Ok, Jens, thanx for sharing, i will try again today and really focus on relaxing, my neck has been a little stiff and maybe that´s something do with it, i will try to stretch those muscles and sing with my head more tilted forward. Any tips how i could improve my endurance? Sing more tough songs i guess but maybe there is something else.

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Well i dont theres à magic fix to it. i kindo get i feeling when i hear you,Cant put my finger on it but it gets me thinking about how i got infull control of my distortion.

Just did à Little each day when i felt like it, just maning sure it didnt hurt or felt uncomfortable. so basicly what im saying do it 4 Times' à day make them as perfect as possible and dont mind em. Youll be fully relaxed in this in two month.

Then your muscles have gotten stronger, your body is used to this line and youve trained it to feel that its not dangerous.

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Olem, you could try to first siren up to the highest note in that phrase, sustain that note a bit and try to relax your throat as much as you can while still getting a good sound, i.e. get rid of tensions that way. And THEN try to sing the song with that same configuration. Often we don't realize that we have a slight throat tension so this could help. Here's I'm doing this:

https://www.box.net/shared/q3tly8adjb

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Olem - I agree with the others in that you are not quite ready yet. After listening to your examples, I don't think there is a magic fix that will enable you to acheive this "overnight". This is a long term development and I can totally relate because I've been going through the same thing. What has really helped me increase indurance in this area is to learn how to sing very lightly in that range. Connecting chest to head very lightly. That's not what we want the end result to be but once you can connect lightly so that you virtually erase the boundries between chest and head, you can add more weight. There are a few good exercises that have worked for me - the Neutral without air exercises from CVT (4 of them) and the KTVA Connect chest to head from Stage 2. I still practice both of these every day. These aren't easy, but if you can learn singing lightly in this area you'll definitely increase your indurance.

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Hello, Geno, thanx for the tip. Lately i have practised some light falsetto sirens and gradually added some weight on them. Unfortunately, though, i don´t have any reference.

Jon, thanx for the tip, i will try that.

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Ok, i practised again today and was a little surprised because i was very tired after a days work. I had no problem (after some warm-up) to sing without running out of breath, i don´t know how it sounds but it doesn´t matter so much because i wanted to make improvement with my breath support and have done so. I enclose one clip with rasp, one more cleaner and one just for fun where i tested my limits and tried to sing in D5/C5 ínstead of B4/A4. I would appreciate comments on how i could improve the sound, vowel choice and so forth.

http://www.box.net/shared/ykjdk7xjtfibklm30rst

http://www.box.net/shared/8tdxznxes1o5479sxmn9

http://www.box.net/shared/g3c9o1vvpjanns07qkyu

Thanx in advance/ Ola

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No, ready i´m definately not, that´s for sure, but right now i just try to figure out why i tense up. When you say you were physically incapable of singing "urgent", what do you mean by that? Was it your support or was it something else? This song is "the trooper" from Iron Maiden and here are the words from the first two verses:

You take my life but I'll take yours too

You fire your musket but I run you through

So when you're waiting for the next attack

You'd better stand there's no turning back.

The bugle sounds - the charge begins

But on this battlefield no one wins

The smell of acrid smoke and horses breath

As I plunge on into certain death.

Of course, Jon, but then i think i´ll have to raise my volume.

olem, it was just about everything...lol!!! just lacked the development.

urgent was (and still is) challenging because of the stacatto-like punchiness and the wide intervals. you can't put that song over without that punch, and before seriously studying i was physically just not strong enough in the lower core to rebound from the punches, and i didn't have enough agility in the voice to ride the note intervals. also, i didn't have the skill to control my air so i'd push too much and blow the folds apart.

then because i was so naive i'd compensate for the blown out folds and clamp the folds so tight that all i did was make it harder than it already was.

then, as in most gramm songs, just when you think you are getting it, he has a knack of adding those trademark head voice screams and all i could muster was a decent falsetto sound. i'm still not satisfied with those ending "urgent" belts.

i had to build up to it...

now on this iron maiden song, man like i said you have hit the ground running on b4. you need your support in order to have the pressure needed to come out swinging with that verse. if your throat and jaw isn't relaxed enough you never make it through. you've got to take the strain with your lower core and keep from constricting the throat.

"You take my life but I'll take yours too"

pick out the correct vowels (per your particular voice) that will help minimize constriction...it may take some trial and error...

for example:

"you take my life"

all b4's. all need to start vowel modified from the get go.

here's a possble way to sing it...of course you have to shade those vowels to arrive at something that works for you.

yuh (b4) teightk (b4) muh (b4) luhf (b4)

the "uh" works great up high for me..perhaps for you it's a shade more towards "oo."

see where im going with this?

it's head register, with twang and support and as you get better at it you can add weight and thicken it up.

then if were learning this song, i'd sing each word once, then move to sing the first two words together, then the first three three words, and listen and feel for the vowels and how i could (if i could) tonally link the vowel sounds together and downplay the consonants.

support and an open throat is a mandatory requisite.

hope this helped.

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olem, it was just about everything...lol!!! just lacked the development.

urgent was (and still is) challenging because of the stacatto-like punchiness and the wide intervals. you can't put that song over without that punch, and before seriously studying i was physically just not strong enough in the lower core to rebound from the punches, and i didn't have enough agility in the voice to ride the note intervals. also, i didn't have the skill to control my air so i'd push too much and blow the folds apart.

then because i was so naive i'd compensate for the blown our folds and clamp the folds so tight that all i did was make it harder than it already was.

then, as in most gramm songs, just when you think you are getting it, he has a knack of adding those trademark head voice screams and all i could muster was a decent falsetto sound. i'm still not satisfied with those ending "urgent" belts.

i had to build up to it...

now on this iron maiden song, man like i said you have hit the ground running on b4. you need your support in order to have the pressure needed to come out swinging with that verse. if your throat and jaw isn't relaxed enough you never make it through. you've got to take the strain with your lower core and keep from constricting the throat.

"You take my life but I'll take yours too"

pick out the correct vowels (per your particular voice) that will help minimize constriction...it may take some trial and error...

for example:

"you take my life"

all b4's. all need to start vowel modified from the get go.

here's a possble way to sing it...of course you have to shade those vowels to arrive at something that works for you.

yuh (b4) teightk (b4) muh (b4) luhf (b4)

the "uh" works great up high for me..perhaps for you it's a shade more towards "oo."

see where im going with this?

it's head register, with twang and support and as you get better at it you can add weight and thicken it up.

then if were learning this song, i'd sing each word once, then move to sing the first two words together, then the first three three words, and listen and feel for the vowels and how i could (if i could) tonally link the vowel sounds together and downplay the consonants.

support and an open throat is a mandatory requisite.

hope this helped.

Great tip, Bob, i appreciate it alot, i don´t know if i have the patience though to make all these vowel modifications :)

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Great tip, Bob, i appreciate it alot, i don´t know if i have the patience though to make all these vowel modifications :)

olem, i hate to tell you, but from what i've been studying lately vowel modification of some sort or another is mandatory up in that range. you've got to (to quote ken tamplin) create release valves to access those upper register notes and minimize constriction.

they're very subtle adjustments which allow the tone to ascend and spin up in your resonators with a lot less effort.

again, keep in mind, it may be that you simply are currently not up to it yet. those aren't easy segments. you may just have hit your first "toughy" song...lol!!!.....believe me, they'll be more.

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Yes, Bob, i have heard about this (that u must sing with a vowel modification high up in your range), i think i use the "uh" vowel pretty much up there when i am going for the darker sound. I am experimenting: practising and recording and then listening trying to listen for strains and resonance. The darker sound - open throat with a laryngeal dumping - with just a slight amount of twang will make the vowel modifications automatically, or?

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no, twang is a seperate issue.

some singers do vowel modify instinctively..

but i personally learned from ken tamplin's dvd.

it's a step-by-step approach that really clicked with me. i was one of those singers that had to have someone explain it to me. then after a while of practise you begin to sense things.

one more thing...

"uh" in and of itself doesn't have to be dark. it's up to the vocalist whether you want color it dark or light.

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