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CVT and Four Pillars!

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rofleren
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Hey guys! I'm thinking about buying Four Pillars. I've read the CVT book and liked it a lot, but I need a program that I can just follow a little mindlessly (and so I don't have to play the scales on piano meanwhile). I've tried Singing Success and KTVA with no success earlier.

I like CVT - does CVT and Four Pillars go together? I like the classification of the vocal modes in CVT, so I'm afraid it's going to cause confusion if I go to something else than CVT, but, ye, I really want a program to follow, so if you can convince me, I am going to buy Four Pillars!

Emil

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I will definitely recommend Pillars coupled with skype lessons. At least initially.. Its a great program, but more important than any program is how you approach it.. CVT, KTVA are both great programs too - you need to stick with one, give it time, and take a few lessons to ensure you're doing things correctly.. thats when you'll start seeing improvement.. It wont happen overnight.. :)

Best of luck with Rob - he's a great guy.

Cheers

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If you're having little luck with 3 vocal programs, I think the solution isn't to purchase the next one but rather seek a vocal coach that you have a good feeling about. Someone who has experience with the type of singing you like and you think you will connect well with. Btw. If you've got a good feeling about the Four pillars, why not contact Robert Lunte for a Skype lesson?

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If you're having little luck with 3 vocal programs, I think the solution isn't to purchase the next one but rather seek a vocal coach that you have a good feeling about. Someone who has experience with the type of singing you like and you think you will connect well with.

I go to a CVT teacher every Thursday and I've had a few skype lessons with Tony O'Hora from www.vocalpower.co.uk, and it's very good, but when I come home, I have a feeling that I need a structured program. So my main question is: Does the CVT terms and Four Pillar terms go together? I'm thinking about investing in the THE FOUR PILLARS OF SINGING 2.0 + 3 INTERNET LESSONS bundle.

Btw. If you've got a good feeling about the Four pillars, why not contact Robert Lunte for a Skype lesson?

It's a lot of money, so I got to make my mind to go full into it.

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they are 2 separate programs and have different ways of achieving similar sounds.. Don't mix and match till you completely understand both programs and exercises, and how they work.

The reason I recommended Rob is coz with the bundle package he'll explain the main exercises in the first couple of lessons and get you going. Plus he's always around to help his students, no matter how small the question..

think about it.

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I own the CVT book and Pillars 1 and have had several lessons with Robert. You'll find that the concept of twang is similar in both CVT and Pillars. However, the vocal modes stuff is just in CVT. I don't have Pillars 2.0, so I'm not sure if anything on vocal modes was added since version 1.

CVT is very informative, but I do think that you'll need lessons to clarify and to understand what mode you are singing in and how to switch between them. Since you already had a few lessons, maybe you can ask your coach to record some piano scales or exercises? Or if you record your Skype lessons, just practice with your previous lesson.

I agree with bigfoot that you shouldn't mix and match until you fully understand the programs and how they work because it could hinder your progress.

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Wow! http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs059/1101996057082/archive/1108950149384.html 100 dollar! I'll buy that! I couldnt say no to this deal. Bought it and looking forward to my skype lesson! :)

Edit: I've bought it (digital version) where do I download it?

Edit 2: I've got a link by Robert now! Downloading :)

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Tony helped me a LOT with some issues I was having via Skype. He's a great guy and he KNOWS his stuff. He also comes from a rock background, so that's nice to have a guy that's doing the same thing you're doing. A good teacher is such a better deal than "another singing program" at least in my experience. Ken Tamplin also does Skype lessons and he is also a super helpful guy. Structured lesson programs are "okay" but they are really kind of a "cookie cutter" solution to what could be very individual, specialized issues. "Use this program step by step and you will be a vocal god". Sorry, but everyone's voice is different no matter what BS you read and specialized programs or lessons tailored to YOUR VOICE will give you more bang for the buck.

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  • Administrator

I own the CVT book and Pillars 1 and have had several lessons with Robert. You'll find that the concept of twang is similar in both CVT and Pillars. However, the vocal modes stuff is just in CVT. I don't have Pillars 2.0, so I'm not sure if anything on vocal modes was added since version 1.

CVT is very informative, but I do think that you'll need lessons to clarify and to understand what mode you are singing in and how to switch between them. Since you already had a few lessons, maybe you can ask your coach to record some piano scales or exercises? Or if you record your Skype lessons, just practice with your previous lesson.

I agree with bigfoot that you shouldn't mix and match until you fully understand the programs and how they work because it could hinder your progress.

Hey guys, I just want to correct something here... Vocal Modes are definately a part of "The Four Pillars of Singing" 2.0. Its a huge part of the TVS methodology. In TVS we identify 8 vocal modes and discuss them in detail, both in the book and in a video lecture. I have also innovated a new concept that further sorts out the vocal modes for singers. There have been a collection of vocal modes available to singers to study and practice for several years, thanks to the Estillians (btw, CVT is not the school that first came up with vocal modes, it was Estill). In TVS, we have categorized vocal modes into "primitive" or "invention" vocal modes.

Primitive Modes = intuitive, not requiring training and have been with us for millions of years. (speech, belts, falsetto, sob).

Inventions Modes = not intuitive until you train it. (twang, distortion, opera, quack).

I have also identified two vocal modes that we don't use in the art of singing, but... we use in the training of singing frequently. This is an interesting observation that no one has ever made before and I believe it is pointing people into a very productive direction. When you can further sort out the relevance of these vocal modes in this way, you will drastically accelerate your progress... I'm quite proud of it, it make a lot of sense and it is really helping my students and teachers to get results even faster then they already were before... anyways, this is all part of the "Pillars" 2.0 update released about three months ago. There are also anatomical drawings in full color of some of these vocal modes in the new book.

I personally believe that CVT and TVS work well together. I admire CVT work and there is a lot in common. Probably the biggest difference is simply that, CVT is more oriented toward science, its a bit more "brainy" where TVS is more oriented toward training, it puts a high value on 37 vocal work outs, demonstrations of how to train and discs to really help you to train. My book is now pretty good and the video and audio content is great... but at the end of the day, TVS is mostly about, training... get off your butt, put the book down and put a mic in your hand and start chopping on the workouts.

I hope this clarifies and that you get a chance to train this new concept of how to percieve vocal modes. Let me know if you have any questions and btw... I am offering a very killer deal for Christmas... the entire system + on free internet lesson for $99! That is a $130 savings off of the published pricing on the store... it lasts for two weeks and then its done. You can find a link on my web site.

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  • 1 year later...

* Personal intro to the forum (you can skip this!) *

Hello from Spain!! I've just registered in TMV, but have been reading tons of topics for the last two weeks.. It's been a great discovery for me, just what I was looking for for months!! Really excited with it!! And quite impressed with the skills and knowledge of people around here...

* End of intro *

I'm trying to decide between CVT and Four pillars to pursue. I'm a beginner (a guitarist/songwriter, in fact, that decided to learn how to sing). I've had some lessons, and I think I can sing from my chest, but I'm looking desesperately for my head voice. And then, would like to achieving some gritty grasp (in both chest and head) .

OK, I assume CVT and 4 Pillars are two different and efficient programs, but the question is... WICH ONE WOULD YOU RECOMMEND FIRST? If you need more details about me (background, tessiture, likes, aims..), I'd be glad to answer!!

Thanks a lot!! :)

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Marcani, send me a personal email and let's discuss your needs. If you can actually get some quality time directly with the school and teacher, that is the best way to make your decision. My email is robert@thevocaliststudio.com. Truly, both programs are great and you will learn from it. Here is the link to my store...

Here is a new video for "The Four Pillars of Singing"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6BrUHKfFRk

I want to invite you to read the specifications regarding "The Four Pillars of Singing" here on the product page.

http://www.thevocaliststudiostore.com/The-Four-Pillars-of-Singing-25_p_27.html

The short of it is, you have to weigh in on what you get with your purchase... with CVT, you get a book and some sound sample files, I have the product... its up to you to kinda figure out how to train the concepts, what to do with it, how to use it.. I think the strategy of CVT is for you to go to one of their teachers to put it all together.

On the other hand, I have created "The Four Pillars of Singing" to be a comprehensive training system that you can get as far as possible, without having to get private lessons (although, private lessons will always be advised to get more clear on what your suppose to do, I'm just saying, I have put features into the product to take you as far as you can go without it). "Pillars" is designed to teach you everything you need to know and it has features that are designed to help you to train.

You get a 300+ page (including the notation of the workouts), full color book, training work flows (step by step sequences on every technical component you need to calibrate and tune your voice to its optimal level), 40+ video lectures, 40+ video demonstrations of me doing the workouts (btw... all new videos of these demonstrations are coming out in about four weeks... let me know. If your a client of TVS, and you tell me your the guy from the forum, Ill give you the updated video demonstrations), Audio demonstrations to listen in your car, BOTH "training with Robert" & "training with midi simulation" guide files that help you to learn the workouts more quickly, notation of all the workouts, recommendations for top vocal gear and more. Also, last year we developed the industries first "Training Media Interface". The TMI is a system that organizes all the massive amount of content you get with "Pillars" into an embedded audio/video player and menus that link to all the content. CVT doesn't offer anything like that.

This is the TVS Training Media Interface. Its a huge hit, students love it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUVo9IYF6Z0

So Marcani, as you can see... "The Four Pillars of Singing" is really BIG on empowering students to be able to actually train and workout... giving you tools and features that help you to TRAIN your voice, not just read, not only listen to samples, but to do all that... and then get on with TRAINING your voice. Because if all you do is read a book, but you have no clear direction on how to train the content, no workouts provided to train the techniques, then its more difficult to get off to a strong start if not impossible for most people.

In regards to the book, I invite you to view the Table of Contents from the book, this will tell you exactly what you will read about in the book. Most of these topics of discussion are backed up by video lectures and demonstrations made by me personally in the "The Four Pillars of Singing".

Here is a link that helps you to see the Table of Contents:

http://tinyurl.com/4PillarsTableofContents

I am really big on demonstrating my own workouts, ideas and demonstrating to my students how to do the workouts I actually created and are asking you to do. Strangely, this is something you do NOT see in many programs? While I do like CVT, its a good program, you never see the author or any teachers in CVT demonstrate their concepts? ... for my money, I want a teacher that has "balls" and is ready to put themselves out there and lead. I want a teacher that leads from the front, not someone who just writes a nice book and then kicks back and lets the money roll in, but never gives more of themselves to EARN that business from their clients every day by actually singing or demonstrating workouts. If you agree and that seems appealing to you, then you will be suited well for TVS ...

BTW, your from Spain? In the next few weeks, we will have a completely translated Spanish version of "The Four Pillars of Singing" and the videos will all have Spanish sub-titles. www.thevocaliststudio.es . At TVS, we are about to make a serious push to service the Spanish market. When that version is ready in a few weeks, Ill be happy to share it with you.

I hope this was helpful... I look forward to your email and discussing a training program to help you.

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Hey guys! I'm thinking about buying Four Pillars. I've read the CVT book and liked it a lot, but I need a program that I can just follow a little mindlessly (and so I don't have to play the scales on piano meanwhile). I've tried Singing Success and KTVA with no success earlier.

I like CVT - does CVT and Four Pillars go together? I like the classification of the vocal modes in CVT, so I'm afraid it's going to cause confusion if I go to something else than CVT, but, ye, I really want a program to follow, so if you can convince me, I am going to buy Four Pillars!

Emil

I'd say go with something where you can find a coach. If you are fine with Skype lessons then Pillars certainly qualify. CVT might qualify if you are near a place where there happen to be a coach.

My personal take is that any program right now is only as good as the coaches/teachers that can help you when you need help. This forum helps a lot in some cases, but it is not enough.

I haven't tried skype lessons yet myself so I don't know how good they are.

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* Personal intro to the forum (you can skip this!) *

Hello from Spain!! I've just registered in TMV, but have been reading tons of topics for the last two weeks.. It's been a great discovery for me, just what I was looking for for months!! Really excited with it!! And quite impressed with the skills and knowledge of people around here...

* End of intro *

I'm trying to decide between CVT and Four pillars to pursue. I'm a beginner (a guitarist/songwriter, in fact, that decided to learn how to sing). I've had some lessons, and I think I can sing from my chest, but I'm looking desesperately for my head voice. And then, would like to achieving some gritty grasp (in both chest and head) .

OK, I assume CVT and 4 Pillars are two different and efficient programs, but the question is... WICH ONE WOULD YOU RECOMMEND FIRST? If you need more details about me (background, tessiture, likes, aims..), I'd be glad to answer!!

Thanks a lot!! :)

Hey I like both products, they are very indepth and smart. As a beginner i would look at what my goal was and what type of person I am.

Both TVS and CVT have a very broad approach meaning the cover alot of genres and sounds however in my opinion TVS is more streamlined and has a program to follow, a building routine. Wich is also the reason why they work very well together.

The Cvt book is more open and free more of "make your own soup here is the ingredients" . That is good but on the other hand very overwhelming if your just using the book.

Personaly i would get both(I did) both are to good to pass up, get TVS first start building your voice and make it strong then add the CVT book as a complement.

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Most of my students are skype students all over the world... it works 95% as good as a personal lesson... its just fine...

Like I said I never tried. Either way I think it is important to have a coach available (on skype if that works). In my case I don't have access to a practice room when the coaches that matters are awake, so I've never tried it. I do take lessons with a coach in my town, but I do get that it would be better to take lessons with a coach that is affiliated with some sort of self-study program so I can be more effective between sessions. I have access to the TVS material and it seems very nice to me. More direct than the CVT book/soundlibrary is.

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