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Is Singing A God Given Talent?

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goldy
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I could never understand with all my musical training why I can't sing and why so many people with absolutely no training or instruction what-so-ever can sing really good. Is it in a gene or maybe a god given talent. any thoughts on this???

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What would make you think that you can't sing? I looked through you posts and could not find a place where you have posted a clip of yourself singing... Few people on this rock actually rthink that they sound good when they sing, myself included. Why don't ya post you singing some song you really like and go from there. The biggest part of singing well (IMO) is having a positive attitude! I'm sure you can sing..

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Many singers start at a very early age, say 3 through 7 years old. They aren't particularly good at singing either. You know what the biggest difference often is?

1. Support. People who sing early often get support, even when they don't sound great off the bat. People who sing later often get ridicule.

2. Often people coming from musical families or with singing parents will get better educations or some nice 'singing instruction' while kids who come from other families aren't given the same nurturing.

There is some natural affinity, I'm sure, and some people struggle with more aspects (range, tone, pitch) than others, but I'm pretty much confident almost everyone can learn to sing, assuming they are given the proper instruction, a supporting environment, and don't give up.

I've gotten a friend I know online, singing basically for the first time. She had vibrato on the first note, from some of the ideas I gave her, (beginning of yawn, good breath support instruction). She is just taking the first steps, she can't yet change a vowel on the same note, without changing the note.

I took the wrong steps and that's why I can't sing anymore and it's why I remind people to be careful and smart. I don't want it to happen to anyone else. But I believe if you take things slowly and do things correctly you'll be fine, and actually will get much better than you expect.

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What would make you think that you can't sing? I looked through you posts and could not find a place where you have posted a clip of yourself singing... Few people on this rock actually rthink that they sound good when they sing, myself included. Why don't ya post you singing some song you really like and go from there. The biggest part of singing well (IMO) is having a positive attitude! I'm sure you can sing..

Keith,

Been playing lead guitar for quite awhile, played w/ a few good bands and have actually had the mike pulled away from me. I've had a few voice lessons with a world renowned coach. Before my 1st lesson she actually told me I may have the worst voice she ever heard! I am making progress and my coach totally is convinced anyone can be taught to sing. She told me I have a beautiful voice but not a good singer YET! I argue with her all the time on my theory about god given talent. I have video recorded my 1st few lessons and I have improved slightly. I will put it up when there is a little improvement.

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Your teacher is right - anyone can learn to sing. You don't have to be "born" with it. If I could learn how to sing anyone can.

Some people just sing naturally better than others - at first. And this leads to the mis-conception that most of us have had at some point in our lives. The belief that you either are born with a great voice, or you aren't, is shared by virtually all non-musicians, most musicians and a lot of singers. It is simply not true. You've got the same equipment as all of us. The rate at which you can progress will depend on you. How much do you want it?

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Your teacher is right - anyone can learn to sing. You don't have to be "born" with it. If I could learn how to sing anyone can.

Some people just sing naturally better than others - at first. And this leads to the mis-conception that most of us have had at some point in our lives. The belief that you either are born with a great voice, or you aren't, is shared by virtually all non-musicians, most musicians and a lot of singers. It is simply not true. You've got the same equipment as all of us. The rate at which you can progress will depend on you. How much do you want it?

Hey Geno, You've got to freak'in kidding me. If that's you on the link I'm very impressed. i thought that WAS Kansas on Dust In The Wind. Really liked the 1st one too. I have worked with a some of the best singers in the world and you've got killer chops and your guitar playing is pretty d**m good also. Have you ever really had what anyone would consider a bad voice even early on?

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I'll say another thing. Almost every single aspect of the voice can be changed to some extent. You can improve timbre, range, pitch control, basically anything can be worked on. So if there is something aesthetically not desired, that can be worked on too.

I recall, when I first started singing I was 'breathy and had extremely limited range.' When I heard my voice recorded I would wince and feel deep shame. Those two things pissed me off, so my singing goals were to try to fix those. Even in my ignorance I fixed both problems to a large extent and was even pretty close to satisfied with the tone of my voice by the time I lost it, do to making ignorant choices in how to improve it further.

With the help of a qualified (supportive, intelligent, and educated) teacher, and even what now stands as scientific proof that the voice has different ways of phonating along with proof of vastly different resonance mechanisms, the only thing that prevents people from working on their singing is themselves.

If your equipment works (I wish mine did), I believe you will be able to sing 'if' you want it bad enough and are smart about how to get there. You just might need the right help from the right people along with the right information to speed up the progress and get there safely. Many of these 'singers' you meet, had a lot of this help as youths, still others are people with the tenacity and hard work to keep going even when it seems very hard to catch up.

By the way, do you know what happens to 5 year old children who try to sing for the first time, and have people (family, teachers, etc) tell them they have the worst voice of all time? That's right, they usually stop singing. That's what happened to me. Most people feel that it's shameful to tell that to a five year old because 'hey he's just starting and so inexperienced, unfair!' But people feel it's ok to do this exact thing to adult beginners. Why? Because they are either ignorant, stupid, or cruel.

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I'll say another thing. Almost every single aspect of the voice can be changed to some extent. You can improve timbre, range, pitch control, basically anything can be worked on. So if there is something aesthetically not desired, that can be worked on too.

I recall, when I first started singing I was 'breathy and had extremely limited range.' When I heard my voice recorded I would wince and feel deep shame. Those two things pissed me off, so my singing goals were to try to fix those. Even in my ignorance I fixed both problems to a large extent and was even pretty close to satisfied with the tone of my voice by the time I lost it, do to making ignorant choices in how to improve it further.

With the help of a qualified (supportive, intelligent, and educated) teacher, and even what now stands as scientific proof that the voice has different ways of phonating along with proof of vastly different resonance mechanisms, the only thing that prevents people from working on their singing is themselves.

If your equipment works (I wish mine did), I believe you will be able to sing 'if' you want it bad enough and are smart about how to get there. You just might need the right help from the right people along with the right information to speed up the progress and get there safely. Many of these 'singers' you meet, had a lot of this help as youths, still others are people with the tenacity and hard work to keep going even when it seems very hard to catch up.

By the way, do you know what happens to 5 year old children who try to sing for the first time, and have people (family, teachers, etc) tell them they have the worst voice of all time? That's right, they usually stop singing. That's what happened to me. Most people feel that it's shameful to tell that to a five year old because 'hey he's just starting and so inexperienced, unfair!' But people feel it's ok to do this exact thing to adult beginners. Why? Because they are either ignorant, stupid, or cruel.

Hey Killer, Appreciate your insight on this. I keep telling my coach that I'm overthinking(tone, pitch, range,etc) She say's I'm underthinking. You're right after years of people telling me how bad I was, it does make it harder. Thanks

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If you want to get where you want to be, you will have to start thinking things through. You're going to have to take a targeted look at your voice and in doing so you'll have to find a way to become very honest with yourself.

Which means aside from some kind of vague 'that's awful' kind of reaction, which might actually be emotional and stemming from other people's (possibly BS) perceptions and your bad experiences... You'll have to look at your voice, and maybe even let some others look at your voice, and think carefully what is it you actually want to improve? What is it that you actually like about your voice? I can promise you that no matter what, you will never, ever please everyone so that shouldn't be a goal.

I can tell you something about my voice that I always liked. I always liked that it was very emotional and 'not perfect like a robot sang it.' Believe it or not, those slight imperfections are possibly my favorite things about it and I fought as hard as I could to not let my voice become like 'polished perfection' when I trained. I thought it had a really unique tone too that gave it character. But there were some other things, (breathy, muffled, limited range) that when I heard it, I honestly believed those should be taken care of because I felt those were hindrances. The end result when I fixed most of those problems was a voice, that some people like, other people don't like. There are people that liked my voice a lot, and believe it or not, a huge part of this is because of what I chose not to fix.

I honestly believe, if you can take a good look at this, and step away from the hate and the cruelty, the bad experiences, and especially if you can find someone supportive and skilled to help you get there, you can do this. If you can find the good in your voice, even something small. I love a lot of voices because they are so human and heartfelt and less 'technical.' These voices feel warm and resonate with me on a very powerful level. So if you can keep some of the charm there of what is special or good about yourself, and fix some of the things that aren't working, in the end, you will likely please people.

But you can't get there, if you just throw the baby out with the bathwater. Your teacher is right that you have to start thinking carefully. You're on the beginning roads of becoming a voice artist. This is a very reflective and important time, because you'll pick some directions that might impact you (and impact others who might cherish listening to you) for a long time on your road here. When I made bad choices and lost my voice, it didn't just effect me, it effected all of the people who would have loved to hear me. That girl I'm teaching to sing now, she was my biggest fan. She's cried at my recordings, she loved my voice so much and she is also grieving it. You are a future artist, just take care in your artistic travels, ok?

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gold54 - Thanks - yeah that's me. Early on I did not have a naturally good voice. I could emulate rock singers, but had no range and no hint of a vibrato. There were those that "magically" could sing with vibrato and had big ranges. My wife has one of those incredibly natural voices. I wouldn't say people thought I had a bad voice, but it was obvious that I wasn't "blessed" with a great voice.

I worked hard at it. And just recently learned how to expand my range well beyond anything I could ever imagine. Now I'm singing Journey stuff and Kansas stuff I could never sing before. On another music forum where I post my stuff, I'm like the "Steve Perry" guy. But I am doing these old songs just to develop my voice. I never sang a Journey song until about a year ago (because I couldn't). And people over there think I was born with this voice. It's kind of funny, because my voice is nothing special at all.

I don't want to lead you on - it takes a lot of work. It's hard. But, unless you are handicapped in some way, you have the same muscles as we all do and you can develop them to do incredible things. It depends what you want to do and how bad you want it.

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I argue with her all the time on my theory about god given talent.

As long as you have no physical ailments regarding your ability to sing, then you can learn how to sing. Rest is feeling and trial and errors. Some people have started their journey earlier, and may be looking like they are gifted with something, when in reality, it's just that they have already achieved some more hard work. I believe there once was a video on " natural talent " somewhere in the performance coaching subforum telling how it was rather continuous hard work than a gift.

You're really not setting up yourself for success if you argue all the time with that. As often is the case with this sort of things, you are your worst ennemy :)

Edit : Damn, KillerKu is good. So I'll add something from personal experience. My family kept telling me I sing awfully bad and should just stop. But it set my mind at peace, and I generally liked it. So I continued. Nowadays, they tell me this less and less :P

And they were right, I was awfully bad. Now, I'm just bad, and on a journey to become almost ok.

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As long as you have no physical ailments regarding your ability to sing, then you can learn how to sing. Rest is feeling and trial and errors. Some people have started their journey earlier, and may be looking like they are gifted with something, when in reality, it's just that they have already achieved some more hard work. I believe there once was a video on " natural talent " somewhere in the performance coaching subforum telling how it was rather continuous hard work than a gift.

You're really not setting up yourself for success if you argue all the time with that. As often is the case with this sort of things, you are your worst ennemy :)

Edit : Damn, KillerKu is good. So I'll add something from personal experience. My family kept telling me I sing awfully bad and should just stop. But it set my mind at peace, and I generally liked it. So I continued. Nowadays, they tell me this less and less :P

And they were right, I was awfully bad. Now, I'm just bad, and on a journey to become almost ok.

Ronron, your right about arguing, it's actually more like discussing. She has one sign in her studio...It says"SHUT UP AND SING" Now I get it! She has over 50 clients that you have heard of. I guess she knows what she's talking about! Thanks

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Just to share my experience, I come from a very non-musical family and never had any lessons AND started singing very late. (14 years old)

Plus, when I started singing I sucked. Things did not look good at all, but now I am much much better and will sing any time if I want to especially with my singing friend. (I only got a singing friend very recently, that would have helped early on too XD)

So anyway even though I do think some people have a natural talent for it, I am proof that anybody can do it. I really was quite bad early on, and I knew it, but I kept going in hopes that one day I would be better.

Edit: btw I turned 16 years old a few days ago :D

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If you want to get where you want to be, you will have to start thinking things through. You're going to have to take a targeted look at your voice and in doing so you'll have to find a way to become very honest with yourself.

Which means aside from some kind of vague 'that's awful' kind of reaction, which might actually be emotional and stemming from other people's (possibly BS) perceptions and your bad experiences... You'll have to look at your voice, and maybe even let some others look at your voice, and think carefully what is it you actually want to improve? What is it that you actually like about your voice? I can promise you that no matter what, you will never, ever please everyone so that shouldn't be a goal.

I can tell you something about my voice that I always liked. I always liked that it was very emotional and 'not perfect like a robot sang it.' Believe it or not, those slight imperfections are possibly my favorite things about it and I fought as hard as I could to not let my voice become like 'polished perfection' when I trained. I thought it had a really unique tone too that gave it character. But there were some other things, (breathy, muffled, limited range) that when I heard it, I honestly believed those should be taken care of because I felt those were hindrances. The end result when I fixed most of those problems was a voice, that some people like, other people don't like. There are people that liked my voice a lot, and believe it or not, a huge part of this is because of what I chose not to fix.

I honestly believe, if you can take a good look at this, and step away from the hate and the cruelty, the bad experiences, and especially if you can find someone supportive and skilled to help you get there, you can do this. If you can find the good in your voice, even something small. I love a lot of voices because they are so human and heartfelt and less 'technical.' These voices feel warm and resonate with me on a very powerful level. So if you can keep some of the charm there of what is special or good about yourself, and fix some of the things that aren't working, in the end, you will likely please people.

But you can't get there, if you just throw the baby out with the bathwater. Your teacher is right that you have to start thinking carefully. You're on the beginning roads of becoming a voice artist. This is a very reflective and important time, because you'll pick some directions that might impact you (and impact others who might cherish listening to you) for a long time on your road here. When I made bad choices and lost my voice, it didn't just effect me, it effected all of the people who would have loved to hear me. That girl I'm teaching to sing now, she was my biggest fan. She's cried at my recordings, she loved my voice so much and she is also grieving it. You are a future artist, just take care in your artistic travels, ok?

Hey Killer, Thanks so much for your time on this subject. You have inspired me and given me much hope! it's great to meet people like you on this forum!

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I have to agree that with the right training, people can learn to sing. A few years ago, I was teaching voice to a few students. One of my students, who actually prefers rock, wanted to to learn to sing George Strait's 'I Cross My Heart' to his fiancee at their wedding. This student had no musical training whatsoever prior to learning from me. He only came over a handful of times, but in that short time, he made tremendous progress and began sounding really good by the time he was done. And this student said point blank before we began that he did not no how to sing.

So yes I think anyone can learn if the desire is strong enough...

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I have to agree that with the right training, people can learn to sing. A few years ago, I was teaching voice to a few students. One of my students, who actually prefers rock, wanted to to learn to sing George Strait's 'I Cross My Heart' to his fiancee at their wedding. This student had no musical training whatsoever prior to learning from me. He only came over a handful of times, but in that short time, he made tremendous progress and began sounding really good by the time he was done. And this student said point blank before we began that he did not no how to sing.

So yes I think anyone can learn if the desire is strong enough...

How was his voice singing rock as opposed to country and did his "rock" voice improve as well?

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what i'm about to say may sound a little cocky but i assure everyone, it's not. i started singing at the age of 5 or 6...why i started i have no idea, but i remember an inborn ability to imitate or emulate singers i liked all through my life. is the ability to imitate a talent, a gift? i have no idea.

i have no idea, but i sang in several bands and came close to a record deal in the 80's which fell apart as quickly as it materialized.

when i sang all those years all i did was emote and reach when i had to reach, sometimes i'd sing so hard i ended up with severe headaches. ironically i never got hoarse or never sufffered vocally all those years...why? i have no idea.

i never had a problem singing anything these bands threw at me...why? i have no idea.

then one day i wanted to sing the songs of foreigner....that need was so strong and i liked his voice so much and the range and difficulty excited me so much i had to learn to sing those songs...only i was incapable, could sing other stuff, but i was incapable of singing these songs.

that incapability factor, scared the shit out of me. that's the only reason i ever sought vocal training. i was so stupid, only thinking that opera singers get voice lessons. so naive i was.

if i knew then, what i know now, i have no idea.

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Just to share my experience, I come from a very non-musical family and never had any lessons AND started singing very late. (14 years old)

Plus, when I started singing I sucked. Things did not look good at all, but now I am much much better and will sing any time if I want to especially with my singing friend. (I only got a singing friend very recently, that would have helped early on too XD)

So anyway even though I do think some people have a natural talent for it, I am proof that anybody can do it. I really was quite bad early on, and I knew it, but I kept going in hopes that one day I would be better.

Edit: btw I turned 16 years old a few days ago :D

That story inspires me. Do you have anything recorded to post on here? love to hear you!

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what i'm about to say may sound a little cocky but i assure everyone, it's not. i started singing at the age of 5 or 6...why i started i have no idea, but i remember an inborn ability to imitate or emulate singers i liked all through my life. is the ability to imitate a talent, a gift? i have no idea.

i have no idea, but i sang in several bands and came close to a record deal in the 80's which fell apart as quickly as it materialized.

when i sang all those years all i did was emote and reach when i had to reach, sometimes i'd sing so hard i ended up with severe headaches. ironically i never got hoarse or never sufffered vocally all those years...why? i have no idea.

i never had a problem singing anything these bands threw at me...why? i have no idea.

then one day i wanted to sing the songs of foreigner....that need was so strong and i liked his voice so much and the range and difficulty excited me so much i had to learn to sing those songs...only i was incapable, could sing other stuff, but i was incapable of singing these songs.

that incapability factor, scared the shit out of me. that's the only reason i ever sought vocal training. i was so stupid, only thinking that opera singers get voice lessons. so naive i was.

if i knew then, what i know now, i have no idea.

I do believe a lot of great singers are limited in their range. Boy I'd give my right arm to sing like Steve Perry, or better yet...Robert Plant.

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gold54 - Thanks - yeah that's me. Early on I did not have a naturally good voice. I could emulate rock singers, but had no range and no hint of a vibrato. There were those that "magically" could sing with vibrato and had big ranges. My wife has one of those incredibly natural voices. I wouldn't say people thought I had a bad voice, but it was obvious that I wasn't "blessed" with a great voice.

I worked hard at it. And just recently learned how to expand my range well beyond anything I could ever imagine. Now I'm singing Journey stuff and Kansas stuff I could never sing before. On another music forum where I post my stuff, I'm like the "Steve Perry" guy. But I am doing these old songs just to develop my voice. I never sang a Journey song until about a year ago (because I couldn't). And people over there think I was born with this voice. It's kind of funny, because my voice is nothing special at all.

I don't want to lead you on - it takes a lot of work. It's hard. But, unless you are handicapped in some way, you have the same muscles as we all do and you can develop them to do incredible things. It depends what you want to do and how bad you want it.

Hey Geno, man, your last paragraph rings so true to me because my voice coach always preaches to her students, "barring any physical mental or hearing limitations...anyone can be taught to sing. Thanks again for her endorsement!

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Bob brought up the point of imitation, which I think, is perhaps the most important aspect in learning to sing. Children love to imitate, some more than others of course.This exercise develops the ear, as as children, we have picked up less bad vocal habits. This combination is what I think produces prodigies. Obviously a lot of work too, but children have this innate ability to learn. It's really all a person does for the early years of their life. In Psychology I learned about what is called the Language window, which is a time in childhood development where after the age of 7 it becomes more and more difficult to learn languages. I'd think this would also apply to other forms of learning.

I have this friend who can sing, and he imitates people all the time. He's been imitating friends and characters for years. Yes, he can be very annoying, but he is talented. In a way he motivated me to start vocal training, because I wanted to be better than him.

For those of us who start learning late (myself included), we have a bigger hill to overcome. It is very possible to achieve a great, versatile voice though. I was not a natural singer. I had trouble singing on key up until a few years ago. In Highschool I was told I was a bass (i've since been identified as a tenor and a baritone too, maybe a soprano next?). We did a production of Fiddler on the Roof and I could not hit the final E4 in Perchik's song. I would break every time I tried. Now, in my own songs, I sing above that note on just about every chorus, no problem. I still have a lot of learn, and have yet to break into the Foreigner/Journey/Farnham land but I am getting there. Stay motivated, Goldy.

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How was his voice singing rock as opposed to country and did his "rock" voice improve as well?

He didnt say he was a rock singer, he said his musical preference, i.e. listening, was rock. I actually

think he had a good voice for country. What did improve from his initial visit, was his pitch and

execution of the notes.

One of the things I like to teach people, and I think alot of people's singing

problems can be related to one thing. Confidence. One word. Sounds easy. How many times do we

act like Bon Jovi or Pavarotti in the shower, but as soon as we're asked to sing in front of someone or

to record, our confidence flies right out of the window?

We begin to think, oh man, they are going to laugh at me, so then we sing like we think they hear us.

Then we tell ourselves we suck, others might tell us we suck, and that point, yes we do suck.

Get to the point where you don't care about someone else's opinion on how well you sing.

When you get to that point, you have built your confidence up. Then listen to yourself. I think

you will find your notes are more on pitch, your delivery is better and stronger and more emotive.

Self confidence goes a long way when it comes to musical improvement.

Yes I have had many of those days in my studio that I absolutely sucked. So I shut everything down,

went back in the studio the next day and kicked it, whether it was laying the guitar tracks or vocal tracks.

Like I mentioned in another post. If you are having a day where progress evades you, don't beat yourself

up over it, because tomorrow, you may finally master the challenge.

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He didnt say he was a rock singer, he said his musical preference, i.e. listening, was rock. I actually

think he had a good voice for country. What did improve from his initial visit, was his pitch and

execution of the notes.

One of the things I like to teach people, and I think alot of people's singing

problems can be related to one thing. Confidence. One word. Sounds easy. How many times do we

act like Bon Jovi or Pavarotti in the shower, but as soon as we're asked to sing in front of someone or

to record, our confidence flies right out of the window?

We begin to think, oh man, they are going to laugh at me, so then we sing like we think they hear us.

Then we tell ourselves we suck, others might tell us we suck, and that point, yes we do suck.

Get to the point where you don't care about someone else's opinion on how well you sing.

When you get to that point, you have built your confidence up. Then listen to yourself. I think

you will find your notes are more on pitch, your delivery is better and stronger and more emotive.

Self confidence goes a long way when it comes to musical improvement.

Yes I have had many of those days in my studio that I absolutely sucked. So I shut everything down,

went back in the studio the next day and kicked it, whether it was laying the guitar tracks or vocal tracks.

Like I mentioned in another post. If you are having a day where progress evades you, don't beat yourself

up over it, because tomorrow, you may finally master the challenge.

Excellent comment on confidence. My voice coach keeps telling me that i'm not committing to the end of phrases and a big part of my problems are in my head. Thanks again

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Bob brought up the point of imitation, which I think, is perhaps the most important aspect in learning to sing. Children love to imitate, some more than others of course.This exercise develops the ear, as as children, we have picked up less bad vocal habits. This combination is what I think produces prodigies. Obviously a lot of work too, but children have this innate ability to learn. It's really all a person does for the early years of their life. In Psychology I learned about what is called the Language window, which is a time in childhood development where after the age of 7 it becomes more and more difficult to learn languages. I'd think this would also apply to other forms of learning.

I have this friend who can sing, and he imitates people all the time. He's been imitating friends and characters for years. Yes, he can be very annoying, but he is talented. In a way he motivated me to start vocal training, because I wanted to be better than him.

For those of us who start learning late (myself included), we have a bigger hill to overcome. It is very possible to achieve a great, versatile voice though. I was not a natural singer. I had trouble singing on key up until a few years ago. In Highschool I was told I was a bass (i've since been identified as a tenor and a baritone too, maybe a soprano next?). We did a production of Fiddler on the Roof and I could not hit the final E4 in Perchik's song. I would break every time I tried. Now, in my own songs, I sing above that note on just about every chorus, no problem. I still have a lot of learn, and have yet to break into the Foreigner/Journey/Farnham land but I am getting there. Stay motivated, Goldy.

Thanks for the stories I really can relate to. One thing my vocal coach also preaches is her approach to breathing(which she refers to as passive breathing) She teaches it in such a simple way. The most natural way is the same way as the day we were born, yet unfortunately we pick up bad habits the longer we are around. I can really relate to what you have to say! Thank you.

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i don't know why people make (edit) threads like this. (edit) what the hell is wrong with you. just go (edit) practice, train hard, and sing your ass off. you'll get there.

woo, stan...that's not like you man...why the "un-stan" annoyance with the posts? people are reaching out for help and advice.

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