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Ian Gillan, Tim Ripper Owens screams - Reinforced falsetto?

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DJDeth
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I was wondering what technique is Ian Gillan using for his high screams like in this song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dm9lSUt31Y4 at 1:06

Tim Ripper Owens, known for his cooperation with Judas Priest, Iced Earth, Malmsteen and solo stuff is also very distinguishable on his heights, check it out at 2:57:

It seems to me that it's not the same technique as the one that f.ex. Geoff Tate or James Labrie is using, it's more raspy and has that falsettoish quality to it. Other thing is that Ripper's and Gillans' screams sound so much different than their natural voice, when they switch to that high notes 'mode' it is obvious that it's a completely different voice. What's more, you almost never get to hear them doing sirens, and when they do, they let their voice crack, like they couldn't bridge it seemlessly, but still it sounds nice and raspy, not like a choir boy.

I think this type of scream sounds great in the lower head voice area, something like Painkiller voice, listen to this clip where Ripper sings a whole verse like this with Iced Earth:

A guy from a Polish band called Witchking, who also does this kind of singing, told me me that it's something called a 'Reinforced Falsetto':

Do you think it's just a full head voice with rasp, or is it a different technique that demands a different aproach?

Cheers!

edit: I've corrected the second link:)

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Depends on what nomenclature is used ;) Some call it reinforced falsetto some fake edge (metal-like neutral CVT). It is just high scream. The larynx should be very high, you have to support a lot, twang the epiglottis funnel and you will have this scream.

See me in this clip 3:45

I'm from Poland and never heard about this band (Witchking). Thanks man, that I could get to know them :)

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It feels pretty much like falsetto but with your vocal chords closed instead of dangling open. Although Gillan hasnt got much tautness left in those rubbery ole flaps ;)

Its just like when you let out air from a balloon and get different sounds from the valve. The valve is the vocal chords. Let the valve hang loose and you'll get a muffled, toneless sound as the air rushes out (falsetto), pull the valve tight and you'll get a screech, a note that uses much less air (headvoice).

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the raspy distortion is an added effect. its not something that has to be applied to a reinforced falsetto and when it isnt it sounds more like king diamonds falestto

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPU2-RlUImE

i think a reinforced falsetto is essentially a slightly better adducted "normal" falsetto from there being so much stretch/tension on the vocal folds. this works best and is most powerful when taken high (because of the fold stretch/tension) however if taken down to the mix/middle voice area it would soon turn into a much softer sound and would not blend with the chest voice.

as for what those particular singers above are doing i thinks its harder to tell with a singer who can use head voice like Ripper because maybe he switches between the two. with someone like gillan or king diamond who doesnt really have/use head voice its definitely a type of falsetto. it can be hard to distinguish a head voice from falsetto when its being applied lightly or very high but often there will be more body or fullness to the sound.

as for why a lot of these singers screams/high notes sound so different to their other ranges its often because the larynx comes up very high changing the shape of the vocal tract which in turn changes the harmonics, formant of the sound

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Hey Adarth! Great vocals on that song, I really like your siren:)

Matt: you're right, Gillan has lost his screams, I have just seen him perform with a polish symphonic orchestra in Gdansk, they played some deep purple classics with brass section playing Blackmoore's solos:) He still has the high chest 'belt' sound though.

CentreOfTheUniverse: it's a great song, that Abigail from King Diamond. Listen to the difference between him and Owens singing this song:

I think it sounds way better in this Owens' 'distorted falsettos' version.

Cheers!

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hey DJDETH nice find. that is indeed a great version by Ripper there. dont know if i would say better as its so different to KD so its a bit like saying an apple is better than an orange :P.

its hard to tell what exact coordination ripper is in with all the distortion added but i think its actually more a head voice coordination as supposed to falsetto. he is just making it sound very piecing/bright by bringing the larynx up high.

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Well i think it's pretty useless to separate the headvoice/falsetto screams that high up in the voice, the coordinations are so close that it's not worth it.

From my own personal experience it sounds as the headvoice has alot less dominant overtones. Just compare Daniel heimans highnotes(above f5) wich is in reinforced falsetto with someone who pulls off head you will hear the diffrence.

conclusion: if your gonna pull off a single scream i would use the falsetto coordination any day. but singing long phrases will sound alot better in "head". if your not up very high like above G5-A5

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yes, buy the time the singer is in to their 3rd bridge at about E above tenor high C (for lighter baritones and tenors), often known as super head voice, the difference in sound quality and possibly the difference in coordination between a falsetto taken that high is not much different. however if someone who has not mastered head voice were to then slide down the scale in to the head voice or mix/middle registers they would enter a falsetto, which has less body or core to it and wont blend or connect with chest voice.

i would think that if someone like Daniel Heiman, who has mastered head voice were to slide down the scale form super head voice in to head voice and/or then mix/middle voice areas it would blend or connect and have the body and fullness to the sound of the correct coordination. therefore we would label his notes that are above that high E as super head voice until he reaches the next register up, the male whistle register, which he is also able to do :P

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Daniel heiman never uses a released whistleregister firstoff, his falsetto has alot of over and undertones wich may sound alittle like whistle but it's not. He did some squek falsetto notes on highlander the one i think to wich was over soprano high C but still falsetto.

You can hear the same quality to labyrinth's sinegr roberto tiranti on his high C's the overtones and the vibrato makes it pick up a whistlelike sound.

and superhead is just another useless term for falsetto with alot of glottisclosure. the falsetto and headvoice discussion is irrelevant and useless, its like comparing a breathy thin chestvoice and a wellproduced nonbreathy chestvoice and calling one falsechest and other true chest.

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Jens, in another thread you've posted this clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23eQPym-_x8

and you wrote:

What im doing here is a halfmetallic mode, mixedvoice, curbing with added effect. and up on the hightops rockfalsetto,head,metallikeneutral.

At the very end, when you reach that raspy A5 and then go down to G5 (and you sound pretty close to Heiman:)), is that what you called metallike neutral? In your previous posts, you reffered to it as to reinforced falsetto, right? Would you post a clip showing how you build this sound up from a normal falsetto to that raspy reinforced one? That would be very helpfull:)

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Most Metal singers don't do that anymore as it sounds like your being shafted by the WWF all at once :lol: ...... gay gang rape !

In the 80's it was a big thing and we all lerned to falceto screem but now 2009 we falceto growl much better and you get to sound like a man :D

Jeff Tate and the likes are fantastic singers but they do tend to use the falceto way to much which gets boring and the clip "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23eQPym-_x8" very cool but which one was being tortured and which one was being castrated ?? lol

keep cool

ciao

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Hmm if reinforced falsetto is called gay gang rape, then falsetto growl would be raped with a spoon and forced to eat what comes out. :D

But hey thats probably alot more "manly" ;);)

Thanks for the comparison to heiman :D he's my all time vocalhero! Il post you a clip after the weekend how i build those screams :P

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Yeah it's soon ready so stay tuned :D metallike neutral is the same as reinforced falsetto when your up high in the range... I listened to the judaspriest cover you did and in the end you did a very good reinforcedfalsetto/metallikeneutral and if you tweak that sound abit you will be able to do what I do... Well il post it here when it's ready

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Thanks Jens:D I love your screams just and your drawings just as much;) Really appreciate yout help, it's a pity it's already midnight here and i can't try your techniques now. That was a great clip, I can't stop smiling:D Can I listen to those songs of yours somewhere?

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Yeah thats a good way to do it, i tend to place it backwards and up into the softpalate, but it's not a must more of a tool. The twang helps protecting the throat so you dont overblow it. Thats more or less my approach everytime i distort i always lean towards the twang.

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Well he's bloody great! And his style is not usualy the one i enjoy, but he makes it up with his agility.

What is alittle bit boring is that his voice holds no suprises, but who care's when your that good :D

Im more impressed by the things he does from 1:45 than when he travels up to the far end of his range, but this is very common almost all guys sound tons better on the A5 then when pushing it some notes higher.

I love this clip

roberto tiranti it's so obvious when he goes into the overtones in the end so beautiful, loads of guys even taking this for the whistleregister :D
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Yeah thats high reinforced falsetto, and he's got damn good control of it and probably 1-2 notes above soprano C in it :P thats how he can play around so much on that B5... Around that area every note higher needs almost the double ammount of support then the last one if you wanna have power on them. Thats why you wont see so many people scream soprano C-D's live

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