devaitis Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I really need a help. I have been singing in the belief that my bridge starts in F#4 for five years. Lately I have practiced a lot and I am sure that note F4 is better in passaggio. Especially while singing slide from top to down. I discovered this in a song "When I'm down" from Chris Cornell. Word "down" in first line of chorus is F4, it is more natural to catch this in passaggio. http://www.box.com/s/ucqegef0b9d0pvyp0t9t I started ask myself the question - What if my first bridge is lower?, maybe E4 should be sing above the bridge. I found that great tenors sing E4 in the way I cant recognize, for example "Bring him home". First from David Phelps, second Drew Sarich. Have a listen http://www.box.com/s/rmf9d0balcdcnc7rcoub I remember that Robert Lunte said that frst Bridge was usually D#4, E4 for tenors. Help me understand this. dev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronws Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 And I think Steven Fraser has said that the passaggio can shift, depending on vowel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devaitis Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 Interesting. I have to dig this post out. Thanks Ron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Fraser Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Interesting. I have to dig this post out. Thanks Ron. deviatis: No need to dig. I'll give you the links to the articles on the main site: The first one, with the basic ideas, is at http://www.themodernvocalist.com/profiles/blogs/male-voice-passaggio-101?xg_source=activity The second one, which discusses resonance strategies, is at http://www.themodernvocalist.com/profiles/blogs/male-voice-passaggio-102 Let me know what questions you may have. I hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjgp3 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 So from what I (mis)understand from reading your posts, Steven, the location of the breaks in the passaggio is not only related to, but directly caused by the vowel sound being sung. What I gather is that the place where the passaggio begins is where, as you move up the scale, the lower harmonics also ascend and pass the frequency range that is enhanced by the first vowel formant? Using http://themodernvocalist.punbb-hosting.com/viewtopic.php?id=2856 this chart as a guide, since the OO and EE vowels have the lowest values for the first formant, those vowels will also have the lowest break points to enter the passaggio, followed by OH, AY, and then AH. So one does not have one specific break point, but a number of break points which correspond to each vowel sound. What I'm sort of shaky on, is how vowel modification works. Is the goal to raise the first formant of a vowel slightly so that way you can stay in your chest voice a bit higher than usual? What about once you are in head voice? Is the modification then synonymous with "vowel darkening" and the goal is to lower the 2nd formant so it boosts lower harmonics and gives a slightly warmer tone? What vowels, then get modified to what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devaitis Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 OK I recorded - using dynamic mic, without ANY processing "ma ma ma ma ma" on D#4 note. I didn't change level of volume. http://www.box.com/s/qcaxsmjsced673cjh7h7 1. First above my first bridge. 2 times (x5) 2. Second under my first bridge. 2 times (x5) In the first one it required more support, more concentration, more precision, less pushing. It is an experiment. I don't know which way should I choose. In my opinion first singing is worse, but sounds more professionally then second one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VideoHere Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 dev, i just want to say that in time you are going to get to point in your development where the transition is not only seemless but unavoidably good. as if it's so ingrained you can't figure out how the voice transition was ever fragmented. your voice will just go to where it needs to go as you solidify your muscle memory in conjunction with your mental perception of the tone. and with thousands of repetitions over the years the resonance and your ability to pinpoint where the air needs to go to resonate well (clearly, a non-technical description) will simply begin to happen over time. i can tell you from just these two years of this under my belt, personal experience, things will just start to come together. you'll just go to exercise or sing one day and you'll get this ring and clarity with less effort than you used to give....not effortless, but less effort...... you'll learn to aim the breath stream into the appropriate resonators (per note, per vowel) with greater consistency and accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devaitis Posted March 16, 2012 Author Share Posted March 16, 2012 Thanks Bob. I understand you completely. I've practiced chest voice singing lately just as Stew said it should be done to strength passaggio. Result is here. I am not satisfied with this sound, but it is the best I have ever got. 2 verses "A song for you" every D4 note --> mix voice on. http://www.box.com/s/c70238fd4d2bec2ae3b5 Edit: I removed this clip by accident. Now it returns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VideoHere Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 sounds good... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stew503 Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Hi, On the, "I am not satisfied with this sound", can you elaborate ? For me I can pick up 3 things, 1) My voice is not weighty enough (little thin), it needs to be a little darker, smoother with more weight 2) My voice is not light enough, I feel it needs to float a little more 3) My voice is fine ... It just doesn't sparkle yet. It needs a sparkle / artistic magic / dynamic shaping (to take me to the next level) What are you after ? Also we can ignore the word "Bad", seems like you didn't know how to attack it and thus it slipped. Have a thought on how you want to attack that. ... On another note - your diction has improved 10 fold, little things in the phrasing still to consider, but am impressed. Stewart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snejk Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 I'm drunk as a mofo. So I will say this. You have a strong sound albeit thin. I mean, with good support you have a clear tone with good resonance, with a tenor timbre. Your last attempts however lacks the integral fullness and have an artistic "flaw". Just from this clip I can say that you have a voice that people will listen to. I'm just curious about how you sing a song ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Robert Lunte Posted March 17, 2012 Administrator Share Posted March 17, 2012 It varies based one the individual. When i coach E4 as a preferred place for bridging for men, my intent is to give a general reference/region for most men, most of the time, based on my experience. I have most certainly discovered and do have students that bridge around D4 and up to F#4/G4. It seems that bridges outside below and above E4 are more rare. Could you upload a file of you doing a slow and controlled siren, on an "Eh" vowel, from G3 to G4... I would like to hear how you handle the timing other components of the register bridging maneuver. I can give you a better answer if I can hear your voice. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snejk Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Damn Lunte... Sorry to barge in... But I would so like to take a Skype lesson with you... See what you have to offer, see what you have to give... Going to see if my budget can allow this some time soon... Anywho, Deva, keep up what you are doing, because you've got enough "raw stuff" to make yourself heard... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devaitis Posted March 17, 2012 Author Share Posted March 17, 2012 Thanks for replies guys. Stew 1) My voice is not weighty enough (little thin), it needs to be a little darker, smoother with more weight Also we can ignore the word "Bad", seems like you didn't know how to attack it and thus it slipped Yes, I think this time I hit "Bad" with too much flap/impact on "B". Snejk You have a strong sound albeit thin Yes. I'm just curious about how you sing a song What do you mind? Which one? Robert Could you upload a file of you doing a slow and controlled siren, on an "Eh" vowel, from G3 to G4... I will do it. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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