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Should I work on my clean tenor range for a while before adding rasp?

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jonpall
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Hi guys,

I was wondering, does it make sense to work on increasing strength in my clean head voice (tenor range C4-E5 or so) for a few months before working on rasp in that range?

Or is it safe to work on rasping high notes right away, before I can sing songs cleanly in the tenor range with power?

Cheers,

jonpall.

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i dont think it would be unsafe to work on both at the same time or the rasp first (providing your doing the rasp correctly) but i do think it might be a better idea to work on the clean head voice first to get an idea and feel of how that is created without the extra coordination of adding on an effect such as rasp.

i dont know maybe its not a very good analogy but i guess if your learning scales on a guitar you might want to do it with the clean tone first then add on the distortion after.

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Thanks. I'm really thinking about stop doing specific grit exercises for a few weeks or months and just work on developing power in my high notes first. And only then start to experiment with gritting high notes.

It seems to happen too often that I lose range when I do high grit exercises. Not every time, but too often for my taste, and no matter how relaxed I try to be.

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another question,

is it possible to work on that tenor range, without adding much power to it. I want to sing in this range, but without getting too loud and also in having a good connection ( don't want to sound too much in head voice or falsetto).

thanxs

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A lot of people think that one should find the tiniest, clearest tone and work from that. Check out Brett Manning on youtube for that.

I have to agree with Matt here. After seeing how one of Brett's students builds up into his "mix voice" from a soft falsetto I have started doing the same with great results. It will take time to get the muscle memory but I am constantly humming and doing buzzing noises through my passagio to train the muscles. It seems to be working because I've nearly forgotten how to flip into falsetto now! I'm like you in that I want to be able to sing songs in that range without having to sing loudly or forcefully. With the correct placement and muscle memory it will happen. It's starting to work for me and I had always been a stereotypical "belter" type of singer. This forum has been incredibly helpful and with so many different perspectives you can find what works for you.

by the way one of the most important tips I got was that singing higher requires LESS air pressure not MORE. It changed the way I think about singing now and I try to never "push" for my higher notes now. If they aren't there for me softly they won't be there consistently when I sing loud either.

Best of luck in your singing.

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I discovered just yesterday that I've never been paying much attention to breath support! I'm experimenting with it (especially the "power push" section in Jamie Vendera' s Raise your voice II) and suddenly I feel that I should be able to sing any note with any volume, with and without grit :) More on that in another thread about breath support perhaps ...

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by the way one of the most important tips I got was that singing higher requires LESS air pressure not MORE.

Snax,

Actually higher pitches calls for higher breath pressure:

"Pitch. In general, the phonation threshold pressure required will be increased for higher pitches than for the middle of a vocalist's pitch range. There can be an exception for extremely low pitches as well; these can require a slightly higher pressure than the middle of the range, but still not nearly as much as the highest pitches."

http://www.ncvs.org/ncvs/tutorials/voiceprod/tutorial/ptp.html

There is a big difference between air flow (amount of air) and air pressure. So for higher notes you need less air but higher air pressure. :)

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Martin...thanks for that! I have a feeling that a lot of people get that confused. I know I did for a while.

I've talked about this in detail on CVI forum...but just in case it helps someone here, I'll add my anecdote:

I was a SERIOUS "over-blower" for most of my singing "life." I was able to sing big AND loud doing this...but really wore me out. Also...ascending into upper register felt like dragging an anchor from the sea floor. Every half step higher felt like an octave.

So, when I broke down and started getting serious about technique, first thing I learned to do was "hold back breath." It was a struggle at first, and I could ONLY sing VERY LIGHTLY(like Snax is talking about.) It was a real pain because I was performing all the time and was "caught in the middle" between old ways and new ways.

I would spend hours every day singing in that light place....but I eventually needed to ADD VOLUME. This was the tricky part(for me) and what I wasn't really getting. The higher and louder you get...the more velocity/pressure is required. It really is a "balancing act" and takes quite a bit of work.

When I got it, it was like a huge revelation(light bulbs going off and everything.) You know...all this support talk suddenly made sense and I understood how the "support will tire BEFORE the voice" and all that stuff.

{on a side note...Martin has compared it to a trumpet...really GREAT ANALOGY for me as I was a lead(big band) trumpet player in my early years and that is EXACTLY what high singing feels like}

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That is a great analogy guys! Singing the high Bruce Dickinson type stuff feels like I'm holding back this big pressure and only releasing enough air to allow the notes to occur and trying to use placement and resonance to achieve the volume I need. Less air flow and more air pressure is exactly right as Martin pointed out. As the muscle memory gets better it becomes easier to bridge and with better air flow control you will not need to force the notes out. It is making singing fun again! I'm still working on freeing up any excessive constriction but I do feel like I'm able to sing more more freely than ever before.

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snax,

assuming you're fully warmed up, (the key) it's just an opinion but the correct breath support and pressure has a way of leaving the vocal chords relaxed...you kind of diverted yourself away from tensing the throat area leaving it open and free.

once it's open and free... man, there are days you'll just soar all over the place. for me, i'm a pusher, i love that powerful punchy overdrive? sound...gramm, rodgers, walsh, lynn turner but i've finally learned it's not a throat-oriented push its breath support related...high notes are so about a seriously supported breath.

b.t.w. here's a great new post by kevin richards for high note development.

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I think I'm having the problem that I'm so not used to HEARING my head voice through a PA system (I'm just used to my chest voice), that I try to sing with too much volume and weight). It throws me off surprise to hear it. But I do MUCH better at home at singing in my head voice - then every time I try a high pitch song at band practise, I butcher the song!

I think I need to practise a lot alone, WITH a mic, THROUGH the PA system, and not just at home or in my car. An SM 58, tons of volume, drum fills and sweat at band practise/live sure changes things ;)

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Don't forget that using a vocal compressor can help with the lower volume of your head voice as it you are still developing the muscle strength. I only used to sing through a mic when I was singing in bands and never really liked hearing myself without all the volume and reverb etc. Now I'm loving the pure sound of my voice without all the help and as I get better from the advice I've received here on the forums I'm really learning to sing with more control.

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