Whistle register/First Video :)

[stew503]

You said;

If its around the secOnd D on the piano? - That would be a D2 on a (85)88 key job,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano_key_frequencies

HOWEVER .. I suspect your looking at a keyboard or shortened piano (I have just compared the piano vs. DX7). On the DX7 C4 (on mine) is 15th white key up, where as on piano C4 is 24 white notes up. That as well as the current confusion on what constitutes Mid C.

So based on - 2nd D on (piano), however suspect keyboard (or shortened piano). is your D3. 12 notes from bottom of DX7 is B2 (so suspecting where your piano starts, you'll be close to C3/D3.

Measure the piano - is it 61 key or 88 key. I suspect it's 61 and thus your second D is D3 with C4 on 15th White key up. (likely transcribed octave down, but that removes any of this mid c on C3 vs C4, for this post's purpose.)

As for Mariah - Her lowest note has been about an A2 (she's aparently hit a G#2 - speaking voice), but vids show Bb2, B2, C3 .. etc, nothing lower (singing) lower than A2. So the "C2's" you have seen are actually C3's

Singing range - A2-C6/D6 then whistling upwards to G#7

Hope it helps (my lowest note is F2, mostly however I start G2),

Also interesting to hear her own words on her nodules.

I suspect all this octave stuff does get confusing, i've just re-read the DX7 manual which states, "The data range is from C1 to C5 (C3 is the middle C, C2 is the one octave lover than middle C, C4 is one octave higher than middle C. ETC.". ... However We'll class Middle C as C4

Have just noted that old Yamaha and other programs (Garageband) seem to class C3 as mid C, however we'll keep scientific.

Lets see if this works

As I said - I'm likely DX7 transcribed down, but you'll get the idea from the C3 vs C4 for mid C. Green pick on the DX7 for Mid C and ball on the piano for Mid C. I'm suspecting the world needs to adopt the scientific rather than having alternating C3 vs. C4 for Mid C

btw, after taking the photo I pressed the C and my pick dropped through the gap, thus is now an integral part of my DX7.

So there you go - Clear as mud :)

[Snejk]

btw, after taking the photo I pressed the C and my pick dropped through the gap, thus is now an integral part of my DX7.

Haha, thanks a bunch for that laugh ;D

[stew503]

I actually think this is because of the lack of standard on C3 vc C4 for Mid C. If we all keep it scientific we'll stay with C4.

I posted the above due to you having mentioned piano and number of notes and second D.

:P

[devaitis]

I don t hear pitch off problem. You have got very good pop voice.

[jacquelinenix]

I don t hear pitch off problem. You have got very good pop voice.

Thank u :)

[jacquelinenix]

You said;

If its around the secOnd D on the piano? - That would be a D2 on a (85)88 key job,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano_key_frequencies

HOWEVER .. I suspect your looking at a keyboard or shortened piano (I have just compared the piano vs. DX7). On the DX7 C4 (on mine) is 15th white key up, where as on piano C4 is 24 white notes up. That as well as the current confusion on what constitutes Mid C.

So based on - 2nd D on (piano), however suspect keyboard (or shortened piano). is your D3. 12 notes from bottom of DX7 is B2 (so suspecting where your piano starts, you'll be close to C3/D3.

Measure the piano - is it 61 key or 88 key. I suspect it's 61 and thus your second D is D3 with C4 on 15th White key up. (likely transcribed octave down, but that removes any of this mid c on C3 vs C4, for this post's purpose.)

As for Mariah - Her lowest note has been about an A2 (she's aparently hit a G#2 - speaking voice), but vids show Bb2, B2, C3 .. etc, nothing lower (singing) lower than A2. So the "C2's" you have seen are actually C3's

Singing range - A2-C6/D6 then whistling upwards to G#7

Hope it helps (my lowest note is F2, mostly however I start G2),

Also interesting to hear her own words on her nodules.

I suspect all this octave stuff does get confusing, i've just re-read the DX7 manual which states, "The data range is from C1 to C5 (C3 is the middle C, C2 is the one octave lover than middle C, C4 is one octave higher than middle C. ETC.". ... However We'll class Middle C as C4

Have just noted that old Yamaha and other programs (Garageband) seem to class C3 as mid C, however we'll keep scientific.

Lets see if this works

As I said - I'm likely DX7 transcribed down, but you'll get the idea from the C3 vs C4 for mid C. Green pick on the DX7 for Mid C and ball on the piano for Mid C. I'm suspecting the world needs to adopt the scientific rather than having alternating C3 vs. C4 for Mid C

btw, after taking the photo I pressed the C and my pick dropped through the gap, thus is now an integral part of my DX7.

So there you go - Clear as mud

haha your pic made me laugh. Ok i have a 61 key keyboard.. So basically my lowest note is technically a C-D3 and that is technically mariahs lowest key then? As i have listen to absolutely everything possible demonstrating her lowest notes and i can hit them all so then she would be a C3? not actually a C2 because then that would mean i would be a C-D2.

So then is it wrong to say i can hit a D2 if all her videos showing the C2 note are actually a C3? If you know what i mean?

Its just frustrating and confusing me because it says everywhere she can hit a C2 and all the videos and songs to back that fact up are notes i can hit? This is why im confused. And im sorry i am naturally blonde and i am sure that is whats contributing to my confusion haha

[stew503]

Go to

http://www.seventhstring.com/tuningfork/tuningfork.html

click the big C (261 Hz) - That's C4 mid c. Click the one octave down (so C3 - 130.81Hz)) - you may reach that note.

than click the extreme c (c2) left hand side. 65.41Hz. Even I can't hit that.

I'll go hunting for Mariah stuff - if you can link some sites we'll have a look. I'll have a look and post

Have a look - lowest B2 20 ish seconds, although not a singing note. then C3 singing from 33 seconds. I've seen a vid with low E2, F2, but one note studio helped, and a G2 which likely was studio octaved down. In fact the other notes up to C3 are either octave harmonised, unisoned or other.

With a quick look, singing notes (unhelped by studio) seem to be C3 at the end of My All, beginning of Emotions and You're so cold. Remember we are talking "singing notes".

From a theory perspective, remember Octave change is on C, so C2, D2, E2, F2, G2, A2, B2, C3, D3 ... etc so D2 is lower than B2 . I'm suspecting that on some of the sites you have seen, they may have thought D2 is higher than B2, but it's not.

[Jens]

Mariah careys lowest note is g2 for the record :)

[Keith]

Im D2 to D5 - 3 octaves! Of course I seem to be gaining range in the wrong direction lol

[ronws]

Mariah careys lowest note is g2 for the record

So, you're saying that Mariah Carey can sing lower than I can?

Awkward ....

[ThisIsJewels]

I liked the song crazy bout u. It was good girl :)

[Keith]

So, you're saying that Mariah Carey can sing lower than I can?

Awkward ....

I can sing lower than you lol, but you can sing much much higher than me I am actually starting to get frustrated with myself over my head voice, or lack thereof.

[ronws]

I can sing lower than you lol, but you can sing much much higher than me I am actually starting to get frustrated with myself over my head voice, or lack thereof.

Then we will just have to admire each other's talents and abilities. You have the greater range, I have the higher notes. You have a low end that is full and dark and gives me goose bumps. Many times, you have that Geoff Tate sound and actually have much of his range. I'm willing to bet you can do an astounding cover of "Silent Lucidity," a song I have tried and failed at, so no one has ever heard me do it and never will.

Which means you have to voice to better cover stuff by Helloween. And you have a natural oscuro that makes you better suited to cover stuff from Sonata Arctica, as well, while still hitting the high notes required in those songs.

I end up going back to my comfort zone of Led Zep stuff. My favorite Plant line, actually spoken, from the album Physical Graffiti: "Where's the confounded bridge?"

And I didn't mean to de-rail the thread. But I do like to share good feelings. That's me, whishy-washy ronws.

[jacquelinenix]

Then we will just have to admire each other's talents and abilities. You have the greater range, I have the higher notes. You have a low end that is full and dark and gives me goose bumps. Many times, you have that Geoff Tate sound and actually have much of his range. I'm willing to bet you can do an astounding cover of "Silent Lucidity," a song I have tried and failed at, so no one has ever heard me do it and never will.

Which means you have to voice to better cover stuff by Helloween. And you have a natural oscuro that makes you better suited to cover stuff from Sonata Arctica, as well, while still hitting the high notes required in those songs.

I end up going back to my comfort zone of Led Zep stuff. My favorite Plant line, actually spoken, from the album Physical Graffiti: "Where's the confounded bridge?"

And I didn't mean to de-rail the thread. But I do like to share good feelings. That's me, whishy-washy ronws.

My conclusion to all of this is basically i can sing a C-D3 And so can Mariah although everything on the internet says C2 its "Scientifically" a C3.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuV_27TVT8w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMm3wdF1qtM

For arguments sake, these two videos demonstrate notes in the 2nd octave but really scientifically they are 3's??

This is why i am confused because i can hit all of these low notes perfectly singing them, so i assumed i was in the 2nd octave but was told further up that its actaully a C3 not C2 that im hitting because my keyboard only has 61 keys lol

I think my head is going to explode!!!!!!! hahahaha

[jacquelinenix]

I dont know if anyone gets the point im trying to make or if im confusing myself for no good reason because im an idiot haha.

But basically if these notes she is singing are really C2's G#2's then i can sing into the 2nd octave, if not then they are really c3's and i can only go as low as C3. Pheeewwwwwwwwwwwww :cool:

[gno]

You are right - Maria is in the 2nd octave which is really low. But she doesn't go down to C2 that I can hear. When she sings B2 for example that's a half step below C3. That's what might be confusing - the octave numbers always change on C's.

[ronws]

What Geno said.

For example, middle C is C4, which you now know very well. Notes below C4 are in the 3rd octave which go down to that next C, which is C3. So, in whole tones, C3, D3, E3, F3, G3, A3, B3, C4. Octaves change on C. In the clip you linked, I think Mariah did manage a Bb2 or B2. But, like me, she had to get right on the mic and even then, the tone lacks that ring or ping in the voice. So does mine. In fact, her last usable note without need the mic right at the lips is E3, kind of like me. Mariah's B2 is hooty and muffled. She's got her throat wide open and her larynx lowered as much as she can comfortably go.

I go back and listen to where I sing really low (for me, anyway) notes and notice that it lacks the ring or ping I have in the 4th and 5th octave. That some of my lowest notes were growls or throaty whispers. They only sounded like good volume because I was right up on the mic for those. But Steven Fraser was probably the first to notice that I don't have a full sound in the lower part of the 3rd octave and pretty much nothing in the 2nd octave.

And certainly someone else's analysis of what her notes are may be inaccurate if they are not counting the octave on the C's.

I had an old thread of "how low can you go?" I think I had a cold at the time or it was around the time I injured my voice. And though it sounded low to me, it wasn't really low, just felt scratchy and poorly adducted. I was singing out of my range, at the low end.

[jacquelinenix]

my head has exploded

[stew503]

As all above.

On the first video you posted, go from 1:14 ... There she sings a good A2. A2 is second octave ... Lets ignore notes below as they are either harmonised or octave unisoned (i.e. the effects give the voice).

So 1:14 - A2 - second octave

at 2:10 - There's the B2 (still on the second octave)

2:43 - That's C3, So the change has moved to the 3rd octave - The second octave has ended and now we are afresh on the 3rd octave.

G2, A2, B2, ............. C3, D3, E3, F3, G3, A3, B3 ............ C4

Second .............. Third octave ............. Fourth octave.

Octave

Also forget the keyboard, The keyboard is a 61 key - not a full 85/88 piano, thus you'll be missing the first octave (as in my pic - on the DX7, the keyboard starts on C2 - the SECOND octave). As it's transcribed down - I don't have a 1st octave (as possibly you don't).

... If you look on my piano yopu'll see the C3, that's the start of the 3rd octave.

I can understand why you look at the keyboard and it doesn't compute.

Just have to work out if you are logical, kinesthetic, visual .. etc, so we can give you a better definition.

Hope it helps.

[stew503]

To picture piano vs keyboard picture ...

88 key piano

Mariah sings

from Here

at 1:14

| This is where

| You sing Mid C

| | |

\/ \/ \/

poss note 1, note 2 (ignore) C1, D1, E1, F1, G1, A1, B1, ... C2, D2, E2, F2, G2, A2, B2, ... C3, D3, E3, F3, G3, A3, B3, ... C4

First Octave ... Second Octave ... Third Octave ... Fourth octave

BUT a keyboard (poss transcribed) is ...

ALL OF THIS BIT IS MISSING ... C2, D2, E2, F2, G2, A2, B2 ... C3, D3, E3, F3, G3, A3, B3, ... C4, D4, E4 etc.

So the First octave is missing ... Keyboard starts here ...

The second octave ... The third octave ... The fourth octave

NOTE; Not the 1st.

visually it may look

like it, but it's the 2nd

The 61 key will give you a false sense of octave visually., but I hope this helps.

If you want - I can transpose my DX7 up an octave and repost a picture showing how it would work against a piano - i'de just loose the ability for D6's and upwards (so working with female singers would be compromised for a few mins, but doesn;t matter if it helps you (it's easy to put back )).

Note keyboards can normally be transcribed by octave by a few key presses, so if I wanted first octave back - I only have to press several keys. So I choose C2-C7 over C1 to C6.

To add - yes you sing a C3, D3 - The third octave (which btw is impressive)

... IF you can hit Her A2's (so the note at 1:14), then you can sing into the second octave (BUT ONLY 2 notes, A2 and B2).

[Guest]

Well I certainly thank you for that Stew. I learned something helpful.

[Adolph Namlik]

jacquelinenix wrote :

my head has exploded

That made me laugh :lol:

[Stretto]

Not to rehash what has already been beaten to death but here goes,

I don't know of any true woman that can sing an E2 although I have definitely heard some deep voices.

E2 is the pitch the lowest fat string of a guitar is usually tuned to.

C4 is called middle C AND it is the pitch that the trebble and bass staffs overlap in the middle at(which is probably why it is called middle C).

There is a lot of confusion because in some countries they use a different offset. C4 or US is same as C3 for Europe I believe.

Cx, x is the "octave". Every C note on the piano starts a new octave. Just look how stew wrote the list of pitches and see that we have stuff like B3 C4 and B4 C5 (notice how the C is always one octave higher than the note right below it even though they are really not an octave apart(they are very close))

Goto

and memorize that sound and you'll have middle C or C4. Find that note on your piano and etch a bit C4 on the key. Just finding the middle C note on a piano is not a good way because not all pianos are the same.

Mariah is not singing down to C2 but a C3(or a note right below that, B2, it looks like a big leap down but it's really just right next to C3). Another way to think about it is that men sing an octave lower than women generally. Also, even if you used a different numbering system your range wouldn't change. C2 to C6 has the same range as C3 to C7.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081209203102AAAM2E7

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVtDrOzsNK8

Note that Bb2 is a hole step below C3. C2 is way below Bb2. B1 -> C2 Db2 .... Bb2 B2 -> C3 (again, it has to do with how we label things)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NjN8m73CmM&feature=related

Also be careful of all these "vocal range videos". Most of the people doing them don't have a clue. Whats important is not so much your range but the command of your voice and the feeling you can put into it. These people would still be a great with a smaller range. Also, for most of them the very high and low notes are really not that important. Some people get off on it but just because you can hit the high and low notes doesn't mean you will be famous.