question for frisell fans

[VideoHere]

folks, last night i re-read up to page 70 of "the tenor voice."

did anyone experience what he is trying to get you to experience on pages 68-70?

particularly his explanation on page 68? oh my god. have you tried that manuever he's explaining? what was your impression?

[ronws]

My Kindle version doesn't show page numbers, just location numbers, for ex., 170-75.

[bigfoot]

lemme check my book and get back to you bob..

[VideoHere]

i bought both the kindle version, and the book.

section 2524 of 4743 to 2599 of 4743

there is more helpful information in that section than ten other books i've read.

[stew503]

If you are in the "Hubble Bubble, Toil and Trouble" part. Have to agree with that one and you "may" notice the tonal change especially in "ee" above about A4, it takes on that quality - either that or it can become a little piercing, so strays away from Hubble Bubble into Banshee. Which is refered to at the next paragraph and once it develops then yes, some end of phrase or "colouring" takes place.

Occasionally the velvety tone through parts of the vocal range can be stunning to hear. However until mastery is acheived (which appears a dark art), the velvety moments can be fleeting.

It's also an exercise, get yourself doing some of the 4th paragraph exercise up the scale and spot a tonal difference. That along with the "pretend you are a ghost" exercises.

At the festivals, you do hear the adjudicators talking about "painting" the song.

That's the top part of 68 covered, may get back on the rest.

[VideoHere]

stew, thanks for your reply.

yes! i'm at the point where i have enough head voice strength to swell and merge it with the chest voice and when you catch it just right (which right now is a supporting marathon hit or miss) man the tone you get is just so strong and powerful.

sounds like you've been there, done that. if i could ever skype you to discuss it, i'd be very grateful.

[stew503]

Have to laugh as what is stated page 69 the N.B .... Last 2 words.

... Now go to http://themodernvocalist.punbb-hosting.com/viewtopic.php?id=3581 post 26 and look at what's written on my piano Eb4 to F#5. And those stickers have been there for years.

The portion ... to distinguish the difference between the two (false and mixed) ..., actually can be heard (by the mere mortal) with a difference in how you may support and configure 'say' an A4 on "ee". A lot of people go up the scale, hit A4 and suddenly it all goes. Then there are the times that the "hubble bubble" quality is there and continues up to D5 / E5 (books may say F#5 ) where it can take on a different quality. this is why the training and drilling is important - that's one of those things you have to do, with someone hearing the tone until the point where you can hear the tonal difference YOURSELF. Then it's time and practice to drill that so that memory of vocal configuration and support (management) becomes habitual. I have a few in "ugly / undesirable" stage. (The Soprano voice - Page 102)

What exercises are you doing - are they the ones end page 69, as you're up on the Ab there, for the girls I'll even take that down from G5 down "ee", "oo", "ah" (although "ah" tends to "uh") G5, F5, E5, D5, C5. If you can do the "ah" down (within your heady tonal range - without switching sounds / flipping powerful tonal / breathy, then I will be extremely impressed.)

p.s. Was interesting to write this without actually explaining what I was on about - So those who have read you'll know and if not. .. Shall we tell them :)

[VideoHere]

stew, i'm afraid i don't follow you. there are no exercises on my page 69 of "the tenor" book.

just some incredible explanations of the sensations of connecting. an example of one such section:

Many successful singers express how they accomplish the above maneuvers by stating: "I can adjust, then clamp my larynx to my soft palate, with any particular note of my complete range, then send the breath force and the vibrations of the vocal cords toward the particular pitch’s focal point, and then, I keep supplying the tone with breath and allow vocal cords to sing the tone for me. Properly clamping the larynx together, with its proper “focal point”, with various selected pitches, along the length of the resonance channel, also reveals to the singer the small aperture (or hole), of each individual pitch of the complete range, through which, the energized breath stream, and the vibrations of the vocal cords, must pass through, to accomplish the sired pitch of the moment.

Anthony Frisell; Adolph Caso (2010-04-22). THE TENOR VOICE (Kindle Locations 2592-2599). Branden Books. Kindle Edition.

i totally "get' what he's describing. this is the beauty of all those weeks with those descending head voice exercises, then getting to the point where you can swell and instigate the chest voice in instead of digging it up and carrying it up with you. you've essentially coaxed it up.

see where i'm going with this...lol!!!

[stew503]

Ahhh, looking at an old 2003 edtn. - Page 62 ish .. (So i'll write from a different perspective - you still have the former post stuff to come )

Do you find that whilst descending, there is the "urge" to chest to take over, like there is a note where you feel the tonal change. You know it's happening and then you make a conscious shift. So the stage, where it's not fully habitual, but you know it's happening ?

... and at the moment, when singing with a phrase down the scale, you have to consciously think (i.e. NOT to go Head, Head Head, Head, CHEST, CHEST , CHEST ... but to keep it up there, Head, Head, Head, Head, Head, Head, Blend, Blend lower, Chest, chest, Chest). An example is one who has next grade coming up and on one song, there is a transition note of A4, head, head, A4 splat, Chest, chest chest, and needs to be reminded to keep that tone down through the G, through the F and blend E (ish). The song sounds so much nicer when the tone is light, bright and blended to perfection. that along with some of the blended dark velvet tones that occasionally come though are very nice.

I see there are sone ascending scales coming up and a note to remember restricting dragging up the chest voice. Do you feel the "briliance" of sound throughout the descending scales or do you still have the occasional ugly / undesirable tone ?

Also, have you gained the ability to alter the tonal colours, through adding a little darkness through chest and a little brilliance / brightness through head (defined as beautiful interesting timbres) ?

... and you have exercises coming up, interval ascending swelled tone and (if you do them) some more in the Bari-Tenor section.

Nice - well done.

p.s. there is extra to this post to which I have removed and saved. If anyone comments about what I think they may comment on - i'll put it back in.

[VideoHere]

it's hard to articulate but what i sense is these two parts:

1. a feeling like the resonating cavities are getting deeper... like as if my breath tension is like a drill and drills them deeper (just my interpretation).

2. like frisell wrote, like I can adjust, then clamp my larynx to my soft palate (just a sensation).

i'm just reaping the benefits he has spoke about after several months of doing those slides

man, it's so hard to articulate, so i read frisell's explanation, and it all hits home!! i never knew my light head voice could grow this thick.

now don't get me wrong, the melding to chest part is a bitch....lol!!!!

[bigfoot]

Hey Bob,

Read the post you were talking about - and its funny, coz when I opened that section on Kindle I'd already highlighted the exact same bit!!! hahahaahahah..

But yeah, visualizing the sound going up in a curved line, and the "upward and backward" tilt of the larynx make absolute sense (I hope we are talking about the same section!!) ..

This part is very similar to what Robert mentions in his program too, fyi.

I think the only bit that I have been reading varying theories on is the notes from Fn above middle C to the top of the range, where Frisell says that the soft palate should drop and only then will the sound be produced properly.. Have you had any luck with this?

Also, when the head and chest blend, it sounds awesome.. the painful part is to get that to happen consistently! Practice, practice practice practice!!

[VideoHere]

these things he writes about are all sensations you may or may not feel.

i don't really sense a drop in the soft palate, but i feel it more like the soft palette sort of tilts forward (purely sensation) and creates this channel for the air to travel up and punch the head resonating cavities. but the more i practise, the more i feel like the cavities become deeper (which is another sensation).

i'm big into sensations lately.....lol!!!! you're right about swelling in the chest musculature, it's very difficult to obtain a balance when the registers meld and hold the note in a balanced state.

frisell really has a way of articulating the sensation when thowing it back at you and you say to yourself "oh yes!!!, i feel what he's saying." i

i never knew a head voice could get so resonant without any chest musculature involvement. and let's say you're working an "ee" vowel, if you experiment and you swell the ee, and shade the ee ever so slightly to a "eh" you get a another resonant boost. like you turbocharged the "ee."

am i nuts or what? lol!!!

[MB20]

I recently bought the frisell book but have not had the time yet to sit down and get to grips with it. The one thing that confuses me is that he advocates the use of thin vowels like the ee's and oo's, which is very contradictory to say Rob's teaching that you should train on open vowels, which makes the most sense to me.

[VideoHere]

that's because frisell is more old school. he believes the head voice needs to be developed first, in a descending direction.

he recommends the use of an open "ee" as opposed to a chesty speaking voice "ee" and an open, heady,"oo" as head voice development vowels because they require very little to no chest musculature participation.

intially, he wants you working your head voice exclusively to have it "catch up" to your chest voice.

it just one methodology vs. another. also, frisell is more classical voice oriented.

the thing that's so awesome about frisell is the way he writes and explains things. let me know what you think of the book. you'll likely need to read things several times and nice and slow to get the full benefit.

[ronws]

The value of this exercise and his other exercises is to get used to feeling the head voice in control, but with the volume and ring one normally associates with chest voice. I think he only said that about 100 times.

Philosophically, if you are a tenor, you should train as one. He warns, in the beginning that you may lose some of your lowest notes. Nor do I think he is carte blanche saying you have to pick one fach or the other. But the process is still important, even for natural tenors. Otherwise, they will have a flip in their voice, too.

I think that is why he applies the same principle to baritone training, as well.

In my layman's terms, follow the resonance, whither it goeth. For thine shall be the power, the glory, the beautiful tone, forever, amen.