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Science of singing by Franco Tenelli " The Appogio " ?

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why would you wanna call something full that

a) hasnt full foldmass thus isnt full

B) doesnt sound full

atleast where i come from, when i order a FULL glass of water, i get the glass with water right up to the edge of the glass.

Im not presented with a almost empty glass with just alittle water on the bottom.

"this is not a full glass!"

"Yes it is, there's water in the glass!"

from wiktionary

Full

Adjectivefull (comparative fuller, superlative fullest)

1.Containing the maximum possible amount of that which can fit in the space available.

The jugs were full to the point of overflowing.

edit: I always by some mysterious reason gets flamed for this ;)

.... I mean Ive got a 7+ octave fullvoice range my folds touch all the way up until F8

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well the thing is, the sounds we discuss doesnt even sound like eachother.

pharyngealvoice doesnt sound like a velvety delivery or a full boomy mass nor has it the same overtone spectrum as the other, also diffrent folddepths.

why do we even bother grouping these sounds under "fullvoice"? so people can inject their vocalrangeinternetconfidence with some more fullvoicednotes?

you can argue about connection, but i can even connect my lightes falsettonotes to my voice, does this magicly turn them into fullvoicenotes?

I wanna talk about whats really happening not some mirage grouping every sound the humanbody can make in to "fullvoice"

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well the thing is, the sounds we discuss doesnt even sound like eachother.

pharyngealvoice doesnt sound like a velvety delivery or a full boomy mass nor has it the same overtone spectrum as the other, also diffrent folddepths.

why do we even bother grouping these sounds under "fullvoice"? so people can inject their vocalrangeinternetconfidence with some more fullvoicednotes?

you can argue about connection, but i can even connect my lightes falsettonotes to my voice, does this magicly turn them into fullvoicenotes?

I wanna talk about whats really happening not some mirage grouping every sound the humanbody can make in to "fullvoice"

Falsetto is only considered Falsetto when it is substituted for pitches that should not be sung with that sort of light fold mass. It's like singing a C4 the way you should be singing a C5

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So if you sing a C5 in falsetto, it's not falsetto? :P comeon you either have folddepth or you dont. There's no "the way you should be singing a C5" you can sing a C5 manyways no one right or wrong, it's up to you to choose wich one you wanna do(some you might have to train hard to do)

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So if you sing a C5 in falsetto, it's not falsetto? :P comeon you either have folddepth or you dont. There's no "the way you should be singing a C5" you can sing a C5 manyways no one right or wrong, it's up to you to choose wich one you wanna do(some you might have to train hard to do)

What I am saying is if you are capable of singing a full voice F4, but you lack the coordination to ascend the scale without have to flip or switch registers then that is falsetto. The full voice consists of shifting gradual through fold mass not an abrupt change in fold mass or resonance.

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Jens, full voice isn't a tool to increase your Internet cock-size, it's a description of an objective fenomenon. Also, if you want to talk about what's really happening, start with using something more precise than "connecting my lightest falsetto notes to my voice" :) I don't understand what that combination of words means :(

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I understand what you mean, but i dont agree. If you go from chest to mixed that would be a switch of registers so you consider that falsetto?

sorry if i was unclear.

connecting my lightest falsettonotes(no fold depth) without a break or flip to my speakingvoice(voice that uses full depth of the folds)

what i dont like about the "fullvoice" is why call something thats diffrent the same name? specialy sounds that are so diffrent and has so diffrent

1)Setups

2)folddepths

3)soundcolors(and the soundcolors of the diffrent setups can also be altered)

4)techniques

I just dont quite get it, i mean whats the reason? it's also a name that implies the fullestvoice, but still we call things that are far from the fullest sounds we can make fullvoice even soft sounds and sounds with no folddepth?

For what good reason, i cant name one other than to comfuse newbies or the internetvocalrangeboast.

And this is actualy comming from probably the one of the more rangefocused guys on this forum(probably sacrified alot in terms of quality to get extra range)

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I understand what you mean, but i dont agree. If you go from chest to mixed that would be a switch of registers so you consider that falsetto?

I consider any noticeable change in timbre, resonance, or vocal fold activity that is abrupt to be falsetto. If this change is made between two notes and is abrupt then this is not proper use of the voice.

There should be no register changes since we only have one voice and as we ascend the scale there should be a gradual thinning of the folds that is associated with certain pitches. I know and understand that registers exist because of the areas that the pitch resonates, but that is a misleading subject.

The voice should be seamless and no faking or illusion of one voice should exist. If we learn to connect falsetto to our voice, but there is an abrupt change at one pitch within our voices then we are only fooling ourselves.

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jens, i don't want to get you all crazy here guy, i just like to view a voice with complete vocal fold adduction as full voice to differentiate it clearly from falsetto, incomplete or no adduction. that's all.

but you said i'm one of the most range focused guys on the forum...just curious what you meant by that?

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just diss out the fullvoice term it's not relevant. For instance CVt has a good way, they talk vocal setups soundcolor and various it's alot better.

Or just if you talk without like getting up a vocalclip or a sound for people to hear, try to be specific about what you mean.

There is no "proper" way of using the voice, it's only this sound or that sound. Proper use of the voice is being able to sound the way you want, anytime you want without getting hurt.

Then if its opera,rnb,rock,blackmetal you name it it's all about that.

Thats what we all strive to get.

Izzle, you only have one voice and it can make loads of diffrent sounds, there is no right or wrong way. You only need to find out how you want your voice to sound and work it that way.

A seamless voice is cool and if you want that go for it i have no doubt you will get it as youve got a killervoice.

But honestly, most singers has alot of "seams" great singers are just supergood and changing coordinations of the voice very fast, or pass from one coordination to the other.

who says creating intentional vocalbreaks as a stylistic choice is bad? ive done it tons of times, also singing with the lightest of timbres(falsetto) and it can sound killer. :)

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Bob no i said I was one of the rangecrazyest guys on the forum(sorry if that was unclear :) ), im meaning by your defenition i could say my fullvoice(fullfolddepth) range is like 3-4 octaves more or that i use the same coordination(fullvoice)(wich im not,but its adducted) for 5+ octaves.

I understand what you mean bob, but i think the word fullvoice is not the word to use to describe adduction or the folds touching. cause just by adducting alittle wont get you to a fullsound, you know how much work a fullsound takes and how much you need to dig into the folds to get that.

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cool. i guess it's all how you look at it. six of one half dozen of the other.

and i agree with you bigtime about how many different sounds a vocalist is capable of making. it's all where you want to take your voice, right?

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yes ofc, its all what you wanna take your voice :) but i just dont see the reason for the difference between fullvoice and falsetto if basicly you just seperate them by adduction. take away the air from your falsetto(head) you still have the same basic sound of falsetto just airless but adducted. if you count fullvoice as thats sound and all other sound thats adducted you cover 99% of the sounds human can make with the word fullvoice thus it becomes useless as it doesnt really say anything about the voice.

"I have a G4 in fullvoice"

that "fullvoice" can be a mousy squek or a roaring tempest by your defenition. Thus the word fullvoice is obsolete and just causes confusion. cause by using the word full your giving something a value "a full glass of water"

thats what makes me angry :) cause it comfused the hell out of me in the start, followed raise your voice "siren in fullvoice, no falsetto" you think i pulled chest like crazy or what? :)

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"take away the air from your falsetto(head) you still have the same basic sound of falsetto just airless but adducted."

jens, respectfully, this part (above) i cannot agree with. but it simply might be the million definitions there are for falsetto....lol!!

i'm from the side where head voice and falsetto are two different things. i don't even like to use the term "head voice" or "chest" voice. i'd rather say head and chest voice musculatures used together to produce a performance voice.

j.m.o.

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yes i agree, what im saying is you falsetto is open folds headvoice is closed. if you take the lightes you can sing with closed folds youll have the same timbre as falsetto exept its not airy, the folds are closed but they are only vibrating on the edges. but there is no depth of the folds

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you can have folds open in everypart of the range, you can even have folds blowing apart in "Chestvoice" what we think when we hear falsetto is open folds in a headregister folds that dont adduct with no folddepth :P you can do the same with fullfolddepth and it sounds rather funny. but we dont get that in our singing as often as the headvoice"falsetto" as that tends to happen round the passagio where alot of singing happens to protect the voice from pushing.

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  • 2 months later...

This is a great thread and I feel that it is worth reviving.

This appoggio technique is wonderful. A few things I would like to share in my experience with this.

The idea of supporting the way I am supposed to is a new idea for me. I have always been controlling the air in my throat and have been able to get away with it but it is nowhere near where I wanted to be. Since the idea of supporting is something I just started doing, the appoggio is definitely a new feeling and requires a lot of work.

I have a pretty bad case of both kyphosis and lordosis and let me tell anyone reading this that you MUST get these problems corrected if you want to be able to support the way that is necessary for appoggio. I have went through a huge amount of exercises and stretches over the last few days that have me aligning much better already and it makes a huge difference with the appoggio. I am able to fully use the appoggio for about 35 minutes right now before needing to take a break. I was a college football player and have good core strength and now how to activate the right muscles, but I am just now understanding how to apply that and now singing is the physical challenge that I already wanted it to be. It feels MUCH better to get completely fatigued in the inner core muscles than it does to feel the built up pressure in the throat and the tensions and restrictions that come with that.

Let me also say that when I first started doing this, it was hard to get clean onsets and that had to do with me taking in too much air and then actually not having enough support and pressure where it needs to be. I would actually back off of the support trying to get the onset more free when I really needed to have a much deeper connection and support than I realized. Today it really came together and the entire onset problem went away. The hundreds yoga position that CunoDante mentioned is a TREMENDOUS way to feel the right way to support and breath. It is perfect for somebody like me because it helps get me out of my kyphosis and anterior pelvic tilt, while also limiting how much air I an take in (As I take in too much) and it lets me feel the breath in my back far more than I usually am able to.

I love the advice from both Dante and Vocal Wisdom. I will say that for me, I get a much better sense of pressure release in my throat when the front of my abdomen is somewhat sucking in while I inhale. Feeling a little bit of tightness there while allowing the sides and back expand are right now, the most effective thing for me. Come to think about it, I am probably still expanding a little bit in the front but with the sides and back activated and expanded the way it is, it feels like the front is tucking in.

I really got to feel exactly how much of a workout this was earlier today. I did a ton of vocalizing and singing today and felt great afterwards. I went to play some pretty high level full court basketball and was having a ton of trouble getting air. It was like my actual diaphram was fatigued and slower to rise and fall. It was a very strange feeling but it really let me know how much work I put in today.

If anybody else has any discoveries with this or things they would like to share, feel free to do so. I really do think this is a great thread and could use some more discussion.

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Here is an excerpt from the latest update to "The Four Pillars of Singing" in regards to my inputs on Appoggio. I too am growing more and more appreciative of its benefits... Im going through an "appoggio" phase these days... This is 1 of 15 in an essay I have recently added to "Pillars" titled, "THE 15 CRITICAL SUCCESS FACTORS TO YOUR TRAINING".

***

TRAIN APPOGGIO TO SING WORLD CLASS

The more I train Appoggio and the more I learn about it, the more my appreciation grows for it. From my experienced perspective, I can see through the forest and I know the story for Appoggio is just beginning at TVS and new discoveries and techniques will arise from its practice for years to come, including great singing.

Similar to vowel modification, Appoggio is one of those vocal technique ideas that are associated with world class phonations, the best of the best teach and train Appoggio.

I encourage you to put the tongue into the open throat position and engage the intercostals support as much as you can, especially on big, open vowels in your songs. Do it as much as you can, make Appoggio your primary posture for singing. Appoggio reduces fatigue in your vibratory mechanism (larynx region), is favorable for legato (singing with fluidity in a lyrical fashion), helps you to tune to your ‘dampened harmonic’ formant and helps eliminate a lot of voice ‘chirping’, ‘breaking’ and other undesirable instability issues caused by singing without enough respiration and too much manipulation of the vibratory mechanism (the “twanger”).

Here is the TOC from Pillars, for anyone that would like to review the content in the book. Those that have invested in earlier versions, may recognize a lot of new additions and changes.

https://thevocaliststudio.box.com/s/dsvd2rex3ys6bmukqmu6

Hope this helps and you enjoy the sneak preview... there are some very cool new, (available, but not yet publicized, features to 'Pillars')....

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agree also.... but i don't even associate falsetto with a timbre. falsetto can be a low note too right?

Yes Bob, Falsetto can have different pitches... but you raise a good question that I have seen here on the forum before which is an interesting, academic riddle...

If Falsetto is defined by an open glottis, then is a whispery phonation in the chest voice also classified as Falsetto? In my opinion, I don't think so. I think Falsetto mode also has to be in the head voice. It resides exclusively in the head voice. Windy phonations in the chest voice are just windy phonations or vocal effects.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have experienced something very astonishing certain times, in singing . A kind of automatic movement inside my body, something like the movement of a piston which was going down without any volontary action and with a very pleasant feeling, allowing to go to high notes. The directions of my teacher were very classical, like : smell the perfume of a rose, palate high, free the jaw and maintain the low ribs open without tension. I suppose this phenomena could be appogio. If somebody has a commentary I would be grate ful

Renaude

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