Head voice, Chest voice, A mix of the two?

[Zion1744]

Here's the deal, i've been getting used to my voice for almost a year now and i'm a 17 year old male. My chest voice was obviously what i started with and while i got used to it i realized there's falsetto. I've learned so far falsetto is not the same as head voice or even close to my chest voice. I can do falsetto in high and low, however it cracks often when doing it lower. Now here's the problem.. I want to sing high notes with out destroying my chest voice or whatever. The way i have been doing it is just shouting or pushing really hard to get up into the upper registers even though i read that you shouldn't be straining. One example of a song that i have started to sing quite often is Three Days Grace - Never Too Late.

It starts of very easy range wise, then to the chorus which is kind of high. I can hit the notes in my chest voice but it's hard, sometimes it hurts, my voice gives out often, and it definitely doesn't sound good. I'm wondering if there is a way to reach into my head voice and still sing it with a similar texture. If you want me to record myself and put it on this forum i will, i just need someone to tell me how? Thanks for the help!

[Zion1744]

Oh and i didn't even mention, I'm used to doing falsetto from singing Never Shout Never all the time haha. I think i may have found my head voice, it sounds really bad though. It sounds empty as if i have no resonance in it? I think if i could use it right i could hit MUCH MUCH higher notes, it just needs to sound better :P

[VideoHere]

the truth? you have to build and develop your voice with a systematic group of vocal exercises done over time.

you need to learn to mix the voice and that takes time to build.

[ronws]

What bob said.

Also, if you are doing something and it hurts, stop it, you are doing something wrong.

Second, drop the misconceptions and preconceptions you may have about falsetto.

Third, learn to tell the difference between falsetto and lightly connected head voice that is free of distortion. Distortion or rasp is something that should happen above and after the initial note is created. Falsetto is characterized by a lot of air and less resonance than a full note.

This is the hardest part for you and many others. Embrace the use of falsetto as a training tool to get your notes in the right place. Then, later, add a controlled stream of air to support the note, which will bring back in the resonance and volume that is normally associated with "chest."

Chest is not just because you feel sympathetic vibrations in your clavicles (collar bones.) it is a matter of resonance of low notes that do produce these sympathetic feelings in the body. Your head voice notes will be felt in the head yet sound "chesty." And you will have work the hardest to change your mind to accept that. And, by the way, our benefactor, Robert Lunte, provider of this forum and the main site and the author of 4 Pillars, is the king of "chesty" sounding head voice.

And he is so difficult to contact. You can contact him here in the forum. Search any of his posts on anything and you find his email, phone number, skype number, profile page. If you live in the Seattle, WA area, that is where his studio is located.

Or read any number of his posts where he basically explains things that others would charge for, including some of his tutorial videos that he has linked in here to be viewed, for free.

The man talks the talk and walks the walk.

And no, I am not a 4 Pillars salesman, or rep, or admin, or mod. I ain't nothing but Lazy Ron and I still have a bad habit of saying what I think or know.

You're in the right place and all you got to do to get help is ask.

And welcome, by the way.

And link on something of you singing so we can hear what you are talking about.

[Zion1744]

That's the problem i don't know how to link any of my new singing other than a few really bad videos on youtube haha

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GV9pEefgjI

So like i said we're all pretty much new at all of this and this was at our first actual show. I'm on the far left w/ the Rise Against shirt. And this song is pretty easy to sing, but I feel like it just doesn't sound good enough :/

I also want the quality of my voice to improve so how might one work on that as well? I'm up for any kind of exercises if somebody could give me a link to mixing the head and chest voices?

Other things I do on the side vocally are acapella and i sing and play acoustically so i have a wide range of sounds i'm trying to fill.. So it's kind of hard to go from like a school choir setting to some acoustic stuff and then to a full band like this. I'm never sure what my sound actually is which is another thing i need help determining. How do you know if you're meant to sing as an opera singer or a hard rock singer or whatever?

It is sooo annoying how little i know about vocals and how hard it is to actually grasp 95% of the concepts

Other acoustic videos of mine from a few months ago.

[VideoHere]

if you wanted to build an engine, before you built it, would you want to know how it works?

[Zion1744]

I just want an engine. I don't care what I have to do to get one, I'll do it. I need somewhere to start though.. I don't really want to spend money on a teacher or a program because 1.) i don't want to learn something wrong 2.) it costs money and it might not even be worth it. I want to try some basic like exercises that help expand my range, find spots for good resonance, how to do the vibrato thing with the voice, and add vocal fry to my voice. If anyone can help me here it'd be great.

i mean do disrespect to you at all, but you're what i call a "quick fix" kind of singer. but you see, singing better does not come quickly.

there is requisite skills and knowledge you need just to get off on the right foot, so you're not spinning your wheels.

the very first is learning how to breathe for the purpose of singing. i would recommend you start there.

but i know you won't....lol!!!!

[Robert Lunte]

Zion, wait a minute?

"you don't care what you have to do, to get an "engine" (or guide to sing better)".

"You want to try some exercises that expand your range, teach you resonance, teach you how to have vibrato, vocal fry, etc..."

"... singing better does not come quickly".

"... there is a requisite of skills and knowledge you need just to get off the right foot, so your not spinning your wheels"...

BUT

"... you don't really want to spend money on a teacher or a program..."

HUH?!

You want to learn all these things. You want to become a better singer... but you are not willing to make any investment in a teacher or program that will help you to get there? You want FREE content and FREE information?

No disrespect to you, but I can tell you are 17. That is not how vocal technique works bro and frankly, not really how life works. There is an industry that exists for learning vocal technique and becoming a better singer and within that industry are experts and products that are designed to help you. Singing technique is not for free. The best you can hope for is a bunch of 'teaser' videos on YouTube and reading this forum, but that is NOT going to get you results. It might pique your interest, it might answer a few questions, it might inspire, but it is not going to get you to really sing great. The only way you are going to sing great, is to make an investment IN YOURSELF and suit up and start training!

If you train with me... If you take three internet lessons with me and you are not getting significantly better and not getting closer to your goals, Ill give you your money back...

So there you go, I have removed your risk of "it not being worth it", so now it is on you to step up and take action.

Hope this helps...

[Keith]

And, not to mention, Mix voice is antiquated, and DEAD!

[Guest]

The quote function has weirded out. it doesn't "box" the quote anymore. You can't tell where the quote ends and the response begins. I now Italicize the quote to avoid confusion.

[VideoHere]

i told rob about it. dante let me know too..thanks

[Zion1744]

That makes complete sense haha

Every video I've watched on singing hasn't helped me much :/ which explains the teaser part of..

Well i take it back, i'm definitely willing to spend money to improve my singing, i've spent like 400$ Pooling towards a p.a. system for our band. I have money and it is an industry. How much would you charge for singing lessons over skype or whatever?? Also I'm just scared to do actual singing lessons because I don't want to be ripped off or I don't want someone to tell me i'm doing something wrong when a different vocal coach would be saying a completely different thing.

However, I do understand that a vocal coach knows much more than my seventeen-year-old self And for other people I ask if the lessons are truly worth the $? Could you have figured it out on your own or was a coach the only reason you got there?

I do want results fast, i'm young and impatient.. I'm definitely determined and have been for months now and IT WILL HAPPEN. I don't care if I go broke doing it as well haha So much for the keyboard i was wanting to buy >.>

For my interests... I want to sing music that fits under the category of metal. Not so much like rock like skid row and stuff like that but newer stuff like Bullet for my Valentine and like Avenged Sevenfold. I'm not sure how it works to get that sound...

Finally, i've been messing around with that weird voice and I honestly think i'm getting some results with it. I was singing This is War - 30 seconds to mars. I could hit all those high notes and i could feel the transitioning into my "head voice" if that is it. I feel like i crack all the time in it though :/

Thanks again for the help! As well as I hope to book a lesson some time soon!

And every time I post something I ALWAYS forget something else.. My head voice is pretty weak compared to my chest voice and whenever i put air pressure, or whatever you call it, it cracks lower.. It will usually break into a lower falsetto kind of sound. But there have been multiple times when i drag out a note and slowly add more pressure to it and it can get reallly loud but won't sound good. I suppose lessons would help with this too :P

[VideoHere]

That makes complete sense haha

Every video I've watched on singing hasn't helped me much :/ which explains the teaser part of..

Well i take it back, i'm definitely willing to spend money to improve my singing, i've spent like 400$ Pooling towards a p.a. system for our band. I have money and it is an industry. How much would you charge for singing lessons over skype or whatever?? Also I'm just scared to do actual singing lessons because I don't want to be ripped off or I don't want someone to tell me i'm doing something wrong when a different vocal coach would be saying a completely different thing.

However, I do understand that a vocal coach knows much more than my seventeen-year-old self And for other people I ask if the lessons are truly worth the $? Could you have figured it out on your own or was a coach the only reason you got there?

I do want results fast, i'm young and impatient.. I'm definitely determined and have been for months now and IT WILL HAPPEN. I don't care if I go broke doing it as well haha So much for the keyboard i was wanting to buy >.>

For my interests... I want to sing music that fits under the category of metal. Not so much like rock like skid row and stuff like that but newer stuff like Bullet for my Valentine and like Avenged Sevenfold. I'm not sure how it works to get that sound...

Finally, i've been messing around with that weird voice and I honestly think i'm getting some results with it. I was singing This is War - 30 seconds to mars. I could hit all those high notes and i could feel the transitioning into my "head voice" if that is it. I feel like i crack all the time in it though :/

Thanks again for the help! As well as I hope to book a lesson some time soon!

And every time I post something I ALWAYS forget something else.. My head voice is pretty weak compared to my chest voice and whenever i put air pressure, or whatever you call it, it cracks lower.. It will usually break into a lower falsetto kind of sound. But there have been multiple times when i drag out a note and slowly add more pressure to it and it can get reallly loud but won't sound good. I suppose lessons would help with this too

you said "I do want results fast, i'm young and impatient"

you aren't going at this the right way man.

you cannot speed up or hurry up your progress. if you screw up by too much strain and pushing/forcing things you'll be setback by either losing your voice, or worse yet, a nodule or polyp.

if you just commited to a few lessons, and a consistent practise routine, you'd be amazed what can happen.

you'll discover changes in your voice you didn't even know were to happen. not just the changes you're after, but ancillary changes to your voice which might enhance things beyond what you think you're after.

[Zion1744]

Well even though i said i wanted fast results it doesn't mean it's reasonable. I know for sure that it'll take years to develop a good voice, a consistent sound, as well as a strong sounding voice. I practice every day like I said, however today i'm taking a break because it hurt my throat area right between my two collar bones. Is that bad and i'm pretty sure it'll go away but a much needed break is in order. Secondly, you can speed up or hurry up the process, i guarantee you i can because i know what i've been doing is not effective. I'm so jumbled with all this and i'm not even sure if i'm trying to sing things correctly and it eventually might hurt me but i know what i'm doing isn't straining my voice and i'm unsure if it is correct

Which leads me again to lessons, i'm willing to commit to a few lessons. Are these lessons from you? or from anyone else, i need to know the price. I'm willing to spend however much it takes to get me to point A. Point A is being able to sing higher so i can actually start working on the texture, or tone of the notes.

If i can physically hit the notes i will have much more room to expand and practice my sound.

How much are lessons usually? When is the soonest lesson I can get? I'm so excited to see what will change with my voice but i'm waiting, developing my patience i'd say haha. I know these lessons won't instantly make me capable of singing 4 octaves. However, i do expect them to allow me to achieve that goal within' time, an undecided amount of time depending on how long i rest/practice/how effectively i do practice. I know it's a slow and steady process of developing the voice i'm not that stupid. I've been playing guitar for years and when i first started i thought, i want to be instantly good. Same thing with working out, i wanted to be instantly jacked. Those are both unreasonable but it doesn't mean i can't want to have a fast achievement. I'm going to do everything in reasonable time just as it were anything else. I know skills and abilities take time to develop.

To sum everything up I guess i just want someone to put me on the road so I can stop walking on this gravel i've put out for myself. If you can set me on the right path, I'll walk the walk.

[Robert Lunte]

The quote function has weirded out. it doesn't "box" the quote anymore. You can't tell where the quote ends and the response begins. I now Italicize the quote to avoid confusion.

We are going to fix that... don't sweat it... its in the "to-do" list for the developer.

[Robert Lunte]

Well even though i said i wanted fast results it doesn't mean it's reasonable. I know for sure that it'll take years to develop a good voice, a consistent sound, as well as a strong sounding voice. I practice every day like I said, however today i'm taking a break because it hurt my throat area right between my two collar bones. Is that bad and i'm pretty sure it'll go away but a much needed break is in order. Secondly, you can speed up or hurry up the process, i guarantee you i can because i know what i've been doing is not effective. I'm so jumbled with all this and i'm not even sure if i'm trying to sing things correctly and it eventually might hurt me but i know what i'm doing isn't straining my voice and i'm unsure if it is correct

Which leads me again to lessons, i'm willing to commit to a few lessons. Are these lessons from you? or from anyone else, i need to know the price. I'm willing to spend however much it takes to get me to point A. Point A is being able to sing higher so i can actually start working on the texture, or tone of the notes.

If i can physically hit the notes i will have much more room to expand and practice my sound.

How much are lessons usually? When is the soonest lesson I can get? I'm so excited to see what will change with my voice but i'm waiting, developing my patience i'd say haha. I know these lessons won't instantly make me capable of singing 4 octaves. However, i do expect them to allow me to achieve that goal within' time, an undecided amount of time depending on how long i rest/practice/how effectively i do practice. I know it's a slow and steady process of developing the voice i'm not that stupid. I've been playing guitar for years and when i first started i thought, i want to be instantly good. Same thing with working out, i wanted to be instantly jacked. Those are both unreasonable but it doesn't mean i can't want to have a fast achievement. I'm going to do everything in reasonable time just as it were anything else. I know skills and abilities take time to develop.

To sum everything up I guess i just want someone to put me on the road so I can stop walking on this gravel i've put out for myself. If you can set me on the right path, I'll walk the walk.

OK, HERE IS THE DEAL... YOU WANT TO GET SERIOUS AND STEP UP? YOU WANT TO REALLY GET RESULTS SING HUGE, FACE MELTING HEAD TONES? THEN CLICK ON THIS LINK AND INVEST IN ONE OF THESE THREE OFFERS. THIS IS MY POPULAR VOCAL TRAINING SYSTEM TITLED, "THE FOUR PILLARS OF SINGING 2.0" AND ITS GREAT. YOU'LL REALLY GET A LOT OUT OF IT. MANY OF THE HARD CORE MEMBERS HERE HAVE IT.

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http://www.thevocaliststudiostore.com/Four-Pillars-of-Singing-Hard-Copy-or-Digital-Download-3-Internet-Lessons_p_44.html

THAT IS THE BOTTOM-LINE BUD... NO MORE NOISE, NO MORE POSTS... I HAVE REMOVED YOUR RISK OF GETTING "RIPPED OFF" WITH MY GUARANTEE AND AM POINTING YOU EXACTLY AT WHAT YOU NEED TO DO. YOUR DESTINY IS IN YOUR HANDS... AND IF YOU THINK IM JUST TRYING TO "SALE' YOU ON SOMETHING, THAN I CAN'T HELP YOU.. I CREATED A PRODUCT FOR YOU THAT IS UNMATCHED IN THE INDUSTRY, I CREATED A FORUM FOR YOU WHERE YOU CAN GET ADVISE FROM OTHER EXPERIENCED SINGERS AND LEARN MORE, I CREATED A PACKAGE THAT SAVES YOU MONEY, I OFFERED YOU A GURANTEE... ALL THINGS I NEVER HAD , NOR ANYONE EVER OFFERED ME WHEN I WAS 17. HERE IS YOUR OPPORTUNITY, MAN-UP... AND LET'S GO... ARE YOU IN OR ARE YOU OUT?

[Zion1744]

I'm in if there is someone that tells me it's worth the 400$. Why your vocal training program and not those other people I see on youtube like Ken T. and Brett manning or whatever else there is. I know it's an industry but are the 4 pillars worth it?? I know the lessons will help for sure, i'm sure you're a great teacher but are those dvd's really something I want?

[Robert Lunte]

I understand your concern to a certain extent..., there are nothing but 5-star endorsements all over my shopping cart at www.thevocaliststudiostore.com from satisfied clients. Also, run a search for "the four pillars of singing 2.0" on Amazon.com and you will find 9 reviews of the product, everyone of them are 5-star reviews... all completely raving off the chain.

Other than that, I said what I have to say and have done what I can do to help you, ... good luck with your "raspberries".

:rolleyes:

[Zion1744]

I have a question for you straight up, should i just spend 400$ on just lessons with you or should i get this package deal? Would i learn more from the dvds on my own and the three lessons or should i try to get more lessons with you rather than the deal?

[Robert Lunte]

Get the package deal... you need the content to train with and you need to get in front of me.. its the complete Pillars program + 3 lessons... and a savings of $60... That is the best deal you can get brosef! Now let's rip...

[Jeran]

I guarantee you, if you want to sing rock, metal, or pretty much anything that requires much more than imitating Taylor Swift, don't waste your time on Brett Manning. He's a marketing genius who specializes (hey, it's a living) in providing exercises that do nothing but improve your exercises. His exercises don't, in my very biased opinion, carry over to real world signing. Want to be a friggin' lip roll champ, go with Brett and SLS. I can almost guarantee that after two or three months of dedicated practice...you'll get jack for your efforts except frustration and a pretty little lip roll that you can use when making babies laugh. Or you can imitate Patrick from Sponge Bob. There are great exercises for that, too.

Robert's program (and indeed, almost any other program) is not only better suited for rock, it's better suited for real world singing. Actually being able to sing above a whisper is definitely something I look for from my studies.

[Zion1744]

Thanks you all are really making my decision 100x easier (: I can't wait to get it. And what about the Ken Tamplin guy or whatever? He seemed pretty good and very "rock" based as well. I think i'll just stick with the pillars. Time to convince my parents i'm spending money on this, they're going to be like that's just some marketing scam bad idea blah blah blah lol

[Robert Lunte]

Thanks you all are really making my decision 100x easier (: I can't wait to get it. And what about the Ken Tamplin guy or whatever? He seemed pretty good and very "rock" based as well. I think i'll just stick with the pillars. Time to convince my parents i'm spending money on this, they're going to be like that's just some marketing scam bad idea blah blah blah lol

Lets do it... Trust me, if you train with me, you're results will be off the chain. Its just the truth. I don't know why exactly... but for some reason, I'm just really good at this. I suck butt on a lot of other things in life like, doing my taxes, math, keeping wives happy, etc... but when it comes to teaching people how to absolutely rip it up and boom to like a howitzer in the head voice... and make good , real life products that get results,, I'm in a zone.

[ronws]

I can barely remember when I was 17 and knew everything.

Zion, when you say things can be speeded up, well, in a sense, yes, with the right instructor. Because it will save you years of blindly flailing in the dark.

Why don't you go to Lunte's youtube channel and see the student videos. Granted, these are people who have had a chance to train with him in person but you get just about the same thing with Skype. So, hear how the students have benefited. And here Lunte sing. There are some vocal coaches who can teach better than they can sing. Lunte is one who can do both equally well. And his compatriots who have been members of the forum are also in the industry. James Lugo, who, last year, was recording with Nazareth. Alessandro, who had been working with Dream Theater. Kevin Richards, who is still performing live, as well, in addition to his teaching thing. These are all guys who can sing, as well as teach singing.

It's good that you are honest in admitting your impatience. Kudos for that. And if you really are impatient, then bust your backside to save up the scratch for lessons or the materials. Be impatient in learning how to do something, then patient in your practice to get it right.

Part of your impatience is due to how someone of your age perceives time. It's a brain function thing. When you are young, everything is new and each item is a unit of time. As one ages and takes for granted many things, we notice less time units and time seems to go faster. At my age, time is flying by at 75 percent of the speed of light. Or, as I said on my birthday last month, "Man, if I had known I was going to live this long, I would have taken better care of myself!"

And you'll never finish. I'll be conservative and say that I've only been singing since I was 10, which is more than twice as many years as you have been alive. And I learn something new about my voice almost every day, and that is not an exaggeration. We will always be refining ourselves. That thought process was the secret to Enrico Caruso's "perfection." Because he never saw himself as perfect and worked with extreme focus and diligence. So, it was not even the amount of time or set schedule as it was the intense focus he brought to his practice.

You must also do the same. Fish or cut bait. Even as a hobbyist or amateur, let alone having aspirations of a professional singing or musical career.

If you've got the drive, prove it. In so many words, like Lunte said, either drop the deuce or get off the commode. All ashore that's going ashore. Decide what it is you want and go for it.

And nothing is for free. Aside from the money is the commitment. A commitment that reminds of the SEALs. A person becomes a SEAL because they cannot think of not doing it. Well, a person becomes a singer because they cannot conceive of not being one. Regardless of the effort and learning that may be involved.

And, by the way, the cadets that pass the bud/S course to become SEALs, the secret? Aside from the physical bodily function to do a job under stress, is mental.

And singing is mental.

I can recommend 4 Pillars. I can also recommend the book that helped to get a stronger voice. "How To Sing" by Graham Hewitt. I read that book some years before you were born and it clarified a lot of things. Point being, you have to study it somewhere, some time. Again, bringing up Caruso, many think he was a natural. Well, yes, he had a certain good tone to his voice. But he did not sing like everyone knows of him at first. That was a result of diligent work for years. Once again, the years are not the concern, the diligence of study is.

Peace, good luck, and you are in a good place to make your dreams happen.

[Zion1744]

I really appreciate all the support! When I said I'm impatient i don't mean i'm stupidly impatient. It's more of an excitement. It's like when I get this program it's going to honestly change my life. In a definite good and it's not like i'm expecting my voice to change drastically in a day or something like that. But it will give me hope, i've been at this wall for months now straining to get over this wall in my singing. But now there's hope again.. When i get this system i'm not just going to quit (Not saying I have, i've been non stop singing almost every day/every other day due to rest issues). The reason? Because there's hope again! Thanks again!