The "Pros"??

[VideoHere]

no, unfortunately i wasn't able to determine the cause.....there are so many possibilities...doesn't have to be singing...can be talking...a trauma...

[Max]

Zion,

I started singing when I was around 15, so about 9 years ago now, mainly rock and metal (Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Guns and Roses etc) and I found that I could sing in that style quite naturally. I've never experienced a sensation of having a break or switching point in my voice and I have around a 3 and a half octave range.

When I started I didn't know how to breath properly and I couldn't maintain it for long. I would strain and end up blowing my voice out completely because I couldn't manage my voice at that point. I would gulp in as much air as possible and then just blow a noise out. The results were varied.

Over the past decade I've learned how to breath and support my voice mainly through trial and error, as well as research online and in books. Without proper breathing and support you can't sing, it just doesn't work. Now days I can sing for two hours with as much power and distortion as I want and I'm fine, which wasn't the case 5 years ago let alone 10. On the subject of distortion I would say that every voice is very different, and each persons method of producing distortion is going to be a little different. I make mine in the front of my mouth, not sure how to describe it, but it's never in my throat and it never hurts. if it hurts, stop it. Also, don't rush it with distortion, it will come with time as you get to know your voice, I couldn't produce the sort of distortion I can now when I started.

So, I guess my point is that I think everyone can sing naturally to some degree, but every voice is different and some people will be able to do things right away that someone else has to learn, so don't worry about it, go and learn it. The voice is something that you discover and unlock, and then you learn to wield it. It isn't easy and it's a long journey that never really ends.

If I could give you a bit of advice it would be to get some lessons and I guess Robert would be the man, although I don't have any first hand experience with him or in fact any vocal teacher, but if I could turn back the clock I'm sure that even a few lessons on breathing and support and the fundamentals would have made my life a lot easier a lot faster!

Best,

Max

[Zion1744]

Thanks everyone for your first hand experiences with all this but that's mainly what i was curious about. I see all these people "belting" notes. I don't see how they can physically do that as a stamina issue. I can if you push yourself every day but i figured that would just lead to damage. But thanks again for all the input! (:

[ronws]

It's okay to be young and broke. Most of were, at some point. Now, we're old and broke. Can you see the difference?

James Hetfield didn't really get voice lessons until around the Black Album. Not only could he afford it by then, but his voice was starting to show wear and tear. He has saved it by following a set routine of warm-ups and warm-downs. But, he is one of the few not afraid to show that he's had voice lessons.

So, do what you gotta do and let us know what happens.

[Quincy]

Zion, if you keep blowing your voice out, stop pushing and belting. You are going to mess something up and it certainly isn't going to help you find better technique. Quite the opposite, you will ingrain those bad habits and make it that much more difficult to overcome. You have to learn the basics and practice within a range that is comfortable. You can continually test the fringes of that range and try to work on getting rid of throat constrictions but to go beyond those edges is self defeating. You will waste a lot of time in your progress.

[Zion1744]

I understand this ^ which is why i don't blow out my voice anymore. However, aren't there so many artists that do do this? Like Ron said, James did it until the black album, he did save his voice but it does seem to work both ways??

[ronws]

I've also heard that Jon bon Jovi also underwent some more vocal training in his career, as he got older.

Maybe it feels like an ego stroke to think of oneself as having this natural talent but really, any talent needs to be conserved and managed properly. Even a person who naturally has an affinity for drawing or painting undergoes instruction at some point.

The ones that belted and growled with an concern to technique and training often pay the price. Such as Evan Seinfeld from Biohazard. He cannot sing anymore like he used to do. He has suffered permanent damage. He is still a good songwriter, he just can't belt it like he once did. His voice is now a gravelly sound.

Rule number one: if it hurts, stop it. The phrase, no pain, no gain might work for biceps and quadraceps but, contrary to the opinion of some, this does not work for the throat, specifically, the intrinsic musculature. And definitely not the folds. The part of the folds that vibrates and creates sound is a membrane, not a muscle. Repeated abuse does not produce "stronger" folds. It produces nodules on the folds. Just like blowing your nose a lot from a cold does not produce a "stronger" nose. It produces irritation and swelling and sometimes, rough spots, analgous to a nodule.

[Zion1744]

That makes sense ^ But how do you know if you're not someone who can just belt notes all day without it injuring your voice? Like i can belt certain notes for an hour + while any notes that are higher will destroy my voice. Is that just a matter of range??

[Max]

But how do you know if you're not someone who can just belt notes all day without it injuring your voice? Like i can belt certain notes for an hour + while any notes that are higher will destroy my voice. Is that just a matter of range??

There is no one alive who can just "belt notes all day", it doesn't work like that. If you don't know how to breath and support then you are basically just shouting, which isn't singing.

Like I said, I have always had a big range with a lot of power, especially in my head voice, but that has never meant that I could just start wailing away for hours at a time. It just means that I can produce certain sounds with relative ease which others might struggle to do without training. Other people are born with massive low end power, which I don't have, but that doesn't mean they can use it effectively right away.

Singing is all about controlling your voice with your body, and it isn't a particularly natural thing to do so it has to be approached as a learned skill that is built on whatever foundation of "talent" you have.

It seems like you want someone to tell you that it's naturally possible to just belt all day at full power without any adverse effects, but no one is going to because it's not.

Even Dio, who I think has one of the best, most powerful and "naturally" developed voices ever said that the voice only had a certain amount of mileage in it per day.

[ronws]

It seems like you want someone to tell you that it's naturally possible to just belt all day at full power without any adverse effects, but no one is going to because it's not.

Even Dio, who I think has one of the best, most powerful and "naturally" developed voices ever said that the voice only had a certain amount of mileage in it per day.

Dio did say that, in so many words. So, he did not warm up much, saving his voice for the show and he did not sing much louder than he spoke.

He credits the playing of horn instruments with training him how to breathe.

[VideoHere]

There is no one alive who can just "belt notes all day", it doesn't work like that. If you don't know how to breath and support then you are basically just shouting, which isn't singing.

Like I said, I have always had a big range with a lot of power, especially in my head voice, but that has never meant that I could just start wailing away for hours at a time. It just means that I can produce certain sounds with relative ease which others might struggle to do without training. Other people are born with massive low end power, which I don't have, but that doesn't mean they can use it effectively right away.

Singing is all about controlling your voice with your body, and it isn't a particularly natural thing to do so it has to be approached as a learned skill that is built on whatever foundation of "talent" you have.

It seems like you want someone to tell you that it's naturally possible to just belt all day at full power without any adverse effects, but no one is going to because it's not.

Even Dio, who I think has one of the best, most powerful and "naturally" developed voices ever said that the voice only had a certain amount of mileage in it per day.

max, maybe not all day in the literal sense, but if you are singing correctly and supporting and pacing yourself you should be able to sing strong for a few hours with no issues.

[Max]

max, maybe not all day in the literal sense, but if you are singing correctly and supporting and pacing yourself you should be able to sing strong for a few hours with no issues.

VIDEOHERE, absolutely, that's what I'm trying to say, I guess I'm not putting my point across well here.

I'm saying that you can only sing strong for a few hours if you are supporting and breathing well, even if you were always naturally able to shatter windows with your super powered vocals.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that the pro's are not people with some god like ability to just open their mouths and sing with incredible power and control etc. They are people who learned how to reliably control their voices. Everyone can do different things and produce certain sounds, but then we have to learn how reproduce that cool noise or high scream we just did as singing. Am I making any sense? Probably not.

Take Dio, again, especially those roaring notes of his. The ability to produce those noises is down to how he was physically put together. But, to reliably and powerfully produce those sounds on demand required great breathing and support. Without that, he would still have been able to make those sounds, but probably not without blowing his voice out pretty quickly.

I feel like I am coming across as really argumentative here, and I'm not trying to be at all. I'm also talking based on my own experience and definitely not trying to make out I'm some incredible pro singer or anything, but I definitely have some natural "talent" for powerful singing that most people don't have. For example, when I first started signing I never even thought about something like run to the hills being to high, and I genuinely thought everyone could do it. My friend, who was the guitarist in the band I was in back then, wanted me to teach him what I was doing because he had been trying to sing Maiden and priest and had actually made his throat bleed. I told him I couldn't articulate how I was doing it because I really didn't know. Listening back to some recordings from that time I sound hilariously bad, like a 75 year old Bruce Dickinson eating a sock and being choked.

Ok, enough of these massive rambling posts.

[VideoHere]

no problem. i'm not thinking into anything you're saying. a lot of vocal power (i feel) is not just technique and support, but very much associated with the will of the mind.

i truly believe you can will yourself to certain things in life. the voice is no different. wanting to sing very powerfully i believe is within any singer's capability. but there may be psychological barriers to singing like that.

we have this guy in karaoke who is so afraid of being considered a shouter that he willfully sings all his songs "light" rather than connecting into his performing voice. he asks the d.j. for extra volume and goes on singing this way.

to me, he's never going to reap the beauty of a fully connected voice. that's a decision he's made.

[ronws]

Dio singing soft, Dio singing loud. Doesn't matter. The pros only sing full voice during the set, 1.5 to 2 hours.

Bruce Dickinson spends times between the shows on tour being quiet and watching t.v., unless he is flying Ed Force One. And that's from his own words.

A number of singers limit their talking both before the show and after. Even with the best of training, you can wear out. Even starting string football players get to sit a plays on the bench.

We had a guy in the forum for a while that taught choir for a few hours a day. Performed choir and contemporary christian music at his church and church events. practiced 2 or 3 times a day, no less than an hour. And, of course, had to talk with people all day.

And he wondered why his voice was feeling strained. He couldn't understand why his voice was giving out, now and then. He was sure that he was doing something wrong and the 20 hours a day of using his voice had nothing to do with it.