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Deseperate singer in seek of help....

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joshual
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Hi there,

i've just record that thing: Stoned by richie Kotzen: http://www.box.net/shared/g69d221f0p

the original can be found here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DtSZAI26VA

This is me playing and singing, so sorry for the guitar playing but i was focused on the singing.

I wrote here, because i really don't know what to do...

This song contains some high notes ( at least for me) the chorus is between E and B above middle C. in the bridge at about 2:20 it have some C#. But it's really the kind of soul-rock singing that i want to sing

1-I know i have some serious pitch problems, don't know how to solve it maybe a bad placement

2- I used to strain a lot, even if i don't feel like i'm pushing too much and feel much strain it sounds like strained vocals when i record.

3- I think my main problem is that i have to blend more head voice into that range but definitly can't make it. I would like to get those same notes but with a ligther sound. I have to say that for me those not are not belted at all, i would rather say that i'm trying to control not to sing loud, if i belt ( or pushing more ) the volume goes really up. i have a natural loud voice ( mean it's resonating a lot without having anything to do, i can fill a room with sound quite easily, but it's more a problem than an advantage for me...)

I will take any help, any exercices any criticizes ( good or bad) that can help me, because i really don't know what to do more.

I feel that i'm close to have some good results but i'm disapointed, seems like i'm hitting a wall.

Thanxs again to all for your help.

PS: took me a lot to put that my crappy singing here :(, i really dont like to show people what i'm workin on...

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Your voice sounds good. I'm not as expert as a lot of people are on this forum (I'm not a teacher) - but here are my thoughts: The low notes at the beginning seem hard to control. This is natural in the low register. You'll gain more control of these lower notes by practicing - staying loose and full - keeping the back of your throat open. It will take days though - don't over practice thinking you'll be able to force it to happen. It is surprising how much better you get as the days go on. There are DVD's and lessons available through the internet - if you want some expert help.

The higer notes (E and above) sometimes seem like you are pushing your chest voice up too much. Although at times it really sounds great! It would be less strenuous for you to let the sound go more into your head. Pleople talk about vowel modification as you go up and this is exactly what will help. There are videos on youtube of people demonstrating this and good excersizes that help you acheive this sensation.

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Yeah, really, it just seems to me like you just need someone to show you when not to tense up mentally and you're there. It works for me to "talk" at all levels, whether in normal talking range or when higher, as if I was surprised and raising my pitch. It dawned on me one day that I speak for hours around the range that a lot of rock verses are sung in without any issues. Also, I make sure the volume stays the same so that Im not cheating up the notes through force of volume.

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Hi,

Great resonance, great tone, and good focus. I agree with the other comments. You "think" you can't really reach those notes therefore you are forcing them. It sometimes helps to look 'down' when you are going for higher notes. Also, make sure your throat is open and relaxed. Your voice is capable of that higher range (I think so). Pushing for the note engages stress which can result in pitchy singing.

Once again, you have accomplished the resonance and are using your face muscles and the tone is good. Once you unlock the psychological chains, you will fly!

Good luck!

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Perhaps an adaption of a trick Robert teaches to get into headvoice. He does this thing where, as youre approaching headvoice in a siren, you let the volume get really weak and tiny instead which makes it easier to sort of slide into headvoice and then increase volume. Perhaps if you sing the high parts in a really tiny voice so that it becomes easier to not constrict and tense up you'll notice that youre singing in the same place that you were before but that you were just adding a load of tense muscles on top for no reason other than that your brain gets stressed as you approach parts of the song that worry you. Just an idea I would have tried in your situation.

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joshual, you're hearing from the king of "chest pullers." my issue with chest pulling is a mental one.....i have a fear of sounding less full and powerful as i transition to head voice. i actually prefer the sound in chest voice, but it really wears you down, especailly if you gig nightly. it's something i'm working on. robert lunte's "pillars" is a great help with that.

overall though, i thought you sounded pretty darn good and i thank you for introducing me to a new song and artist i wasn't familiar with.

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thanxs for all your commments and advices.

I started the 'Matt' technique today, speaking on high notes, it seems to work really well for me ;-).

I also did what you've just post matt. I'm trying to sing the high notes with less volume and keeping really everything really relax, my voice crack when i trying to add more volume/resonance but i think if i keep on workin on these two things, my voice will get in place. just a matter of time and practice...

I also realize that i was pushing to get the tone, instead of having the placement and then had volume to get the tone.

It's also true that i'm a real ' emotional ' singer...

Thanxs again to all have help and compliment me, a really big thanxs to you.

@videohere

it xas a pleasure, Richie Kotzen is an amazing guitarist/singer and thanxs for the pretty darn good, the compliments helps a lot, after all we are just singers no ;-)

for the others feel free to give advices too lol

Thanxs,

Josh

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Wow, cool! The way I would increase volume when doing the tiny high voice is simply to carry on doing it the same way but increasing the volume as if speaking to someone in the room. A normal speaking voice is a medium loud singing voice already with less effort than "singing" it with bulging veins and muscles. The trick IMO is learning to hold a longer note and stay in speaking configuration.

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joshual, i'm a singer who feels singing is a lifelong endeavor. to get better incrementally can sometimes take a long time...gotta be patient.

i still got a long way to go...

.....on this i was looking to "do freddie" so i stayed in chest....a lot depends on the note and the song too.

http://www.box.net/shared/zqodebaygg

original

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joshual, i wouldnt put yourself down, you have a good voice. i think the problems your encountering are more to do with technique issues rather than any lack of talent. sounds to me like your kind hovering between a belt type sound and a mixed voice type sound in places rather than being in the correct set up for either.

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Just want to add a few thoughts from CVT - as you descend to very low or ascend to very high pitches the support increases significantly (the increase is greater than a linear relationship). Increasing volume requires a multiple of support, thus volume is also a significant factor in overall support required.

You voice can 'break' for several reasons - changing modes, singing in flageolet too low (below high C I think it is), as well as other reasons.

I am just a beginner at CVT pedagogy [currently reading CVT when I get time]; therefore, I did not attempt to evaluate your moving between modes. I did read that singers gravitate toward certain modes in specific registers (ie lower register - Overdrive).

My knowledge and experience with TVS is your usable range can be increased significantly (you have a lot of range up top you currently are not using, resonance placement is what is choking you out / causing tension). If I heard you out, I would listen to you; I think you are being far to critical of your resulting voice. I know we are all seeking our best though. Basically, if you implement 'Lift Up Pull Back' method from TVS pedagogy you will find you can sing much much higher than you currently find difficult with NO tension / gripping. I am sure about that.

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@CentreofTheUniverse

You're right!Is it exactly how i feel it

@markgrubb

The support is a real problem for me, some times ago i was putting too much support even to make an E, and in this song even if i don't feel strain, i feel like i'm supporting too much. So i really don't know what to do to support well.

My ribcage is 3/4 full ( like i've been taught in bel canto), and the pressure comes from the belly and the back. I think i have a correct technique but it seems like i can't really control it. If i put this in scale from 1 to 10 it seems like i can do 1-2-3 and 7-8-9-10 but can't do middle force support.

hope you can understand me ( i must take some new english lessons lol )

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When I was taking SLS lessons I was pushing the pitches up from the bottom (bottom up phonation). At the Bel Canto studio the first thing addressed is posture. By addressing my forward shoulders, sometimes dropped sternum, and forward craning head the tone got much nicer, I gained more control, and the amount of support needed drastically decreased. The first thing addressed at TVS for me was changing from a bottom up phonation to a top down phonation. This gave me more control and again less support is needed (same pitch and same volume). Also top down phonation is healthier for your voice.

CVT points out the inverse movement of the area around the naval and the area around the sternum. While supporting the area around the sternum is popping out and the area around the naval is moving in. CVT also promotes tucking you butt under you and the use of the muscles in you back and lower back. As soon as the muscles in your back and lower back get activated I think the rest falls into place.

Check your posture in a mirror, especially for foreward movement of your head. Your support may be right. If resonance placement is wrong then A LOT more support is needed to attempt to reach the pitch and attempt to create the tone you desire. That said, resonance placement has changed for me when other issues were address. I didn't have control to move the resonance around; rather, it was a product of correcting technique.

Basically bottom up phonation is singing from your throat. Top down phonation has similar sensations singing in Chest resonance as in head resonance. When I am singing with Top Down phonation the lower pitches resonate behind my top partial (top front teeth). If I use bottom up phonation they do not. Lastly, I have often found it is one small thing that changes the set up and results of singing. It is often frustrating because if you knew exactly how to change it you would, but you are on a quest for it. Keep looking and trying. Perhaps a single Skype lesson with the right teacher would be a short path or you could post a video of you singing the same song and members could look for an answer. God bless!

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I have another silly question:

As i am working on staying more conected to head voice, i wanted to know when do you try to mix head/chest.

Just on the passagio ( for me Eb/E, sometimes C#...) or some notes before?

I tend to say to myself to start to connect at B, before my break. Is it a good thing to do?

Another thing on my mind:

I can sing some songs with middle/high notes, but i can't get to sing some simple song like One of U2, don't even talk about Black hole Sun. can't manage to get a good sound on my break ( around E) in those songs, but i can manage to sing some songs that starts on my break. I really don't understand....

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Personally, I'd say try speaking a word at around E...I bet you had no problem with that...now what are you doing differently when you sing it instead of speaking it that makes it harder? Just my 2 cents.

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@videohere

My problem is on ' illdisposed-disguise etc... ' each time i have to hit the E ( my passagio ) i just can't get my voice in place, my mix is awfull...

If you have any tips, iit could be really helpfull.

I think it's because i've always push to get this note on some songs. What make me sick is that on some songs i have no problems a all with my passagio.... Really curious..

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joshual, i recorded "black hole sun" on my homepage if you'd like to take a listen.

i think i know the parts you mean......i don't read music so i don't know an "e" from a "b"....lol.

in my eyes, indisposed?

if that's it..."indisposed"

....downplay and lighten the "indisp" then sing the "osed" taking advantage of the open vowel and let it go up into your head voice with little pressure.

cornell has this brooding sound i like in that sound. the vide is sick though....lol.

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Joshua,

Your totally being to hard on yourself. You have a very lovely voice. Ok... I confess... there are a few moments that are a constricted choker... but its a technique issue. On those highest notes you MUST bridge to your head voice. Replace the constricted belty chest pulls with a lowly compressed, twangy head tone. Key to your success is you are going to have to get used to bridging earlier and embrace your head register earlier, more often...initially it may sound falsettoey and bad... but if are bridged to your head voice, you have a clean slate to then begin getting your twang configurations coordinated to amplify and induce vocal fold closure.

This is key to TVS techniques... Mark Grubb, as my student, knows this stuff too.

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whouaou, thanxs Robert, didn't expect a compliment, thanxs a lot...

I think i've understand the way to 'connect' in head voice, i worked on it for some days now and i feel some improvements, my voice is not shot after singing. I feel more the resonnance making buzz the nasal cavity and front theeth. I can now really feel when i'm pushing to much and straining, i'm really happy!

But I also realize that i have never worked on that and my head voice is weak...i realize that i've never worked on my passagio, always trying to force the notes. My voice crack a lot from E to G# ( but everyday less), like you said it sometimes sound falsettoey. My goal is now to get a robust head voice. And then adding twang and effects.

I must have to say how much i learn from everyone here this week, the last monts i felt like i wanted to stop singing. I was hitting a wall. The wall is still there but you guys gave me all the adivces to now jump that wall. So for you all tons of thanxs coming right from my heart. this community rocks!!!!!!!!!!

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joshual, it's a lifelong pursuit..make a journey with a lot of fun..

everyone has off days and really off days (lol) but there will be days where you will just soar above the clouds...like your vocals are on auto pilot...

drink a lot of water...man does that help me.

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