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Official Queensryche Cover Thread

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Well, I lowered Mary’s lines.

What I Used:

My voice;

A Shure SM58 microphone;

An Ibanez RG1451 Prestige White Plaster guitar (for both the guitar as well as the bass recordings);

Kuassa Crème VST, for guitar cleans, overdrive, and distortion;

EastWest’s Hollywood Strings for the strings sound;

A police siren recording off YouTube;

A more isolated track of the choir at the start from ‘Mindcrime at the Moore’;

Some parts of the original recording;

Some on-board VST effects for flanger, compressor, EQ, etc.;

All done using Presonus Studio One 2 Producer.

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I'd say your first issue is the Sure 58. It isn't meant for studio recording. I have several mics, and the worst one for recording is a 58. I suggest getting an inexpensive studio mic. I have an audio-technica at2020 (i think thats right lol) and it works great. AND it was free. To get it, all I had to do was buy 2 AT live mics , and they were $99.00 for both. Almost any studio condenser mic will be a monster compared to a 58 in a studio setting . Do you have the Preaonus interface? I have one, but didn't like studio one, so I use it with Cakewalk Producer edition 8.

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Yes, I use the FireStudio Mobile by PreSonus.

When listening to demos of both by the same singers off the Thomann site:

Audio Technica

Shure

I do hear differences. More low response with the AT and a clearer sound, but not so much that I think I could benefit from it, now. I mean the soul singer examples sounds as great using either.

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Recording tech aside, which is way more than I have, you did great on a difficult song. And I can see now why you didn't tackle the lower ones.

But, if you want to, you can. I thought I could not get below C3 with usable volume. Then, I realized, well, most low parts in low songs are not sung dramatico. Use the mic placement, play with the editing. That's how I did SL.

Anyway, good job and even on your worst day, you have better recording skills and tech then I have.

With the version of SL that I posted here, I used a Sennheiser e835 dynamic mic.

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Thanks ronws (& Keith),

I can go as low as F#2 with some volume. But indeed, from C3 onwards I start to get power in my voice. But in SL there are some low C’s (C2’s) if I’m not mistaken (more saying it, than singing it, but whatever). I’ll look into it.

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Thanks ronws (& Keith),

I can go as low as F#2 with some volume. But indeed, from C3 onwards I start to get power in my voice. But in SL there are some low C’s (C2’s) if I’m not mistaken (more saying it, than singing it, but whatever). I’ll look into it.

The lowest not I croak is an E2 in SL. I too have a power band that starts at C3. You just have to use trickery to get the low notes. In this forum, it is okay to sing in your dynamic range, which is outside of your artistic range, as long as it sounds good.

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Hmm, I wouldn’t say, below C3 is not my artistic range. Amplified, it wouldn’t really matter, anyway.

Even in some classical repertoire, it asks for tenors to go as low as A2 (as far as I know), but with the knowledge that it wouldn’t sound so powerful as a baritone’s or a bass’s A2.

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Hmm, I wouldn’t say, below C3 is not my artistic range. Amplified, it wouldn’t really matter, anyway.

Even in some classical repertoire, it asks for tenors to go as low as A2 (as far as I know), but with the knowledge that it wouldn’t sound so powerful as a baritone’s or a bass’s A2.

Artistic range is where you have the greatest control of dynamics, such as tone and volume. Which makes me a tenor, C3 to C6. Though I don't hit the top note every day, so let's call me C3 - Bb5. And most songs I am doing are topping out at A5, easily within my reach.

Past each end of that, in either direction, is the dynamic range, which also encompassed the artistic range. It includes any noise your body can make. Which means my daily flatulence is part of my dynamic range. :lol:

But let's just stick to noise made by the human voice, for now. Below C3, I have a drastic reduction in volume and I simply do not have the ring or ping of a real baritone. Me singing in the second octave is like taking the open 4th string on a guitar (which happens to be D3) and tuning it down. And yes, it will make some pitches in the 2nd octave that are loose and flappy. So, I could not be a legit baritone in opera, for example.But pop wise, if I can physically make the pitch, however I make it, the mic and amplification can take care of the rest. And that is how I do the low parts in SL. Mic proximity and editing tricks.

And had people declaring me all of a sudden a baritone.

And I am still not a baritone. Pop music wise, I am nothing. But a fach type is tessitura. (range and texture) Most specifically, what range of notes can you do every day, regardless, and have the most control. And what kind of texture. And so many have told me that really, you can only worry about fach if being cast in an opera.

So, in SL, I am not a baritone, I am not anything. It is a rock song, not an aria, even though it sounds like one, to me. It does not have the "opera" label on it, so, I cannot be considered any kind of fach in that song.

And to the other guys I know are just dying to "correct" me, hey, it was your rules to start with. How do you like it now?

:lol:

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I know all of that. But where did you get the term artistic range? Because if I would sing The Killing Words with a low F♯ somewhere, I’m not singing artistically?

And again, there is written classical material where a tenor has to extend below C3. On the one hand, I’d consider my range from C3 down to F♯2 part of my modal range. They just wouldn’t make me a baritone. It’s weak, yes. But so is the low open G-string tone of a violin compared to that of a viola, cello, and double bass. It’s still part of a violin’s range, though, even though you can’t get it as powerful, resonant, as the higher range.

On the other hand, from that C3 downwards, I can’t stay in this singing formation (tilted thyroid cartilage). Actually C3 is already pretty low to have any dynamics at all in this singing position. I can go lower, but then I switch to the speech setting, if I want to make it sound with (some) power.

Here is (most of) my full range:

And it doesn’t make sense the way you say it:

Artistic range is where you have the greatest control of dynamics…

If I’d agree on using artistic range, I’d say the range that can’t be dynamic, will be the absolute range, because dynamic range suggests that the range can be dynamic.

All of the artistic range will be inside the absolute range. But some of the absolute range isn’t part of the artistic range.

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Evidently, my definitions are wrong. But I had read that from some classical source that artistic range means area of greatest control, such as tone and volume. Whereas dynamic range was the sum total range of all pitches and sounds you could make. I can't remember the book or the author.

Artistic range was not meant to mean being an artist. I do not have the ability, at least yet, to have a lot of volume below C3, so it is part of my dynamic range, as I understand it.

And I kind of gleaned that from the postings of Steven Fraser, who once defined usable range as that where you have the greatest control over volume and tone. He was also speaking classically, at the time, or at least I thought so. It was one of those threads where we were talking about range and texture and voice typing.

You mentioned in other places that you are classically trained, so you definitely would know more than I do about it. I have another aquaintance who is going through opera training. And I learn quite a bit from him, as well.

But I do not directly have a classical teacher, though I have received some pointers from a classical teacher a few times. Mainly on breathing and tone. But we did not get into ranges, really. He also said, be a singer, not just one certain type of singer. He also wished that I would lean away from the "rock music" thing and maybe go towards theater. That would be the hardest thing, for me. Changing my mind. :lol:

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Almost frightening how high you tenor guys are placed, considering that I am about a full octave lower if I should name the three octaves I am most confident in. Also interesting how much more "natural" those QR songs sound when sung by a real tenor like instead of a baritone like Geoff Tate.

Anyways, great QR covers, keep them going!

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Hmm, I still feel like I’m missing something. I just tried ‘Jet City Woman’. I can hit all the notes with ease and I do have some nice vibrato going (and at times, nice power), but it’s off.

Actually the very light approach in the beginning of Suite Sister Mary is pretty spot on when it comes to intonation, at least when it comes to my intonation (it might be still off, you judge). Still, I feel like I’m holding back there as well. Here, I just feel I’m lazily doing all the runs. I’ll post it when I get it done.

Obviously, a proper microphone setup is a thing I need to take in mind. But then, I heard some pretty good recordings with a SM58. A good mic can only do so much. It’s the source that’s obviously far more important.

I know my voice is different from Geoff’s: way lighter and cleaner. It might be that I just really need to understand that this is my voice. This is my sound.

I think it’s a bit similar to James LaBrie’s in that it’s so very light. He seemed to try to make it heavier by using a lot of growl and rasp during the Awake-era (and from the I&W touring, already), which, in my opinion, did him only harm, because he was constricting. I like his cleans, anyway, so why don’t I like mine?

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If you can get someone to make you the backing track , "someone else" would be your best bet.

Japan, Japan, Japan. What a country with the best of transcribed books. I have Someone Else fully transcribed for piano and Geoff Tate vocals. Nice, because otherwise I would’ve spend my time transcribing it by ear. I’ll try to make a backing track, either playing it live or using MIDI. Actually, I plan on accompanying myself with my cover of the song. Just wait, okay?

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I know my voice is different from Geoff’s: way lighter and cleaner. It might be that I just really need to understand that this is my voice. This is my sound.

And that can be the hardest thing for some people, harder than all the scales and exercises and whatever else. Learning to accept the sound that you have. Every singer I have admired made a career with his own sound, unlike any others. Including Geoff Tate. In the best interview I read of him, he dreaded the interview because he knew people would ask him technical singing questions and he didn't have the answers. He does not think, "I will use 60 percent head, a little cry plus some creak." Paraphrasing his own words, he sings what he feels. The main thing he learned from his 6 lessons (count them, 6 whole lessons over six weeks) was breath management and resonance.

You probably have way more training and way better command of the technical lingo of singing. But what you must do is, like Geoff, or any other singer that you may admire, learn that you have a unique voice that is worth rejoicing. In my opinion, the only technical review should be about pitch accuracy and relevant volume. Anything else is style and interpretation. And not everyone will be a fan.

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Here’s Someone Else?.

There are quite some pitch issues. It was my second take. I like this sort of ring I seem to have, with this clear heady tone. I will practice the song some more, but this shows my problems if I don’t. There are some parts where I’m on pitch, pretty well, and others where I seem to know the notes but just don’t hit them correctly.

Mind that I was performing along with the piano. Clearly I’m just a beginner pianist, so it could affect my singing as well (pitch). I’ll see how much I can improve this song.

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I agree with your own self-assessment, Manny. I liked the piano arrangement. Kind of solemn, like something french. Even though you are not french. A norwegian with a spanish name, Mr. Red? :D Variety is the spice of life.

Probably just a few more passes with this song and it will be fixed. Basically, you pulled a "ronws." Scare up a song and do it. I like it ... reminds me of me.

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Seems to me like the pitch issues really come from the piano playing. I have them all the time when I sing and play guitar ;-)

Hard to say why you don't like your voice. I think compared to LaBrie your sound is a little more twangy on the highs, maybe that is the issue?

You could experiment with a little bit of a more covered sound. Try to project a little more forward and just put a little bit of OH into your vowels, darken them a bit.

However, I like the clean quality of your voice.

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  • 1 month later...
  • 2 weeks later...

I've been listening to your recordings, guys.. and they are awesome ;D

After doing my excercises the other day I sang some stuff and recorded it for listening later.

It sounds, to my ears, ha ha.. acceptable, so I'll post it here. Please, guys, listen to it and share any thoughts! :D n.n

https://soundcloud.com/sebabergmann/queensr-che-revolution-calling

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Xam, this would have been excellent with an acoustic guitar. I cannot hear any pitch issues (though I am a bit "dyslexic" when it comes to pitch as you can hear from my samples). It's a light, yet absolutely acceptable interpretation of the song.

A very refreshing approach

Cheers,

Thanasis

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akarawd, yeah.. I'd love to be able to play the guitar hahah.. but unfortunately I don't have the time to learn something more for the moment :(

And about the "lightness" haha .. yeah.. I'd love to sound edgy and "full voice", but for a lot of time I was speaking and singing with a very relaxed glottis and very breathy. Man, I started to lose my voice after 10 minutes of continuous talking. I'm working on that now :P Now that I found what compression, TA.. CA, twang.. means, he heh.. now everything makes sense to me. I'm working hard on that fold closure, lol.

Thanks for the input :D

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I feel bad that I have missed these last two submissions.

Thanos, freaking awesome. So heavy, heavier than Geoff could have done it. Seriously, you sound deeper and heavier than he did, probably because he had to lighten quite a bit to do this song. Don't change a thing.

Same with Xam. Sure your voice is "lighter" than either Geoff or our own Thanos. Who cares?

These are true covers, not just an attempt to sound like the original. For me, the technical aspects were spot on. Pitch accuracy and relevant volume and you both had that, in your own ways. Which leaves the artistic intent. And you both had that, too. You sang from the heart and that is golden.

Yes, technical exercise and practice reinforces the technical aspect and never neglect that. But always sing from the heart, like you did, here.

This is a beautiful thread and bless Keith for starting it and bless everyone who has participated in it.

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I feel bad that I have missed these last two submissions.

Thanos, freaking awesome. So heavy, heavier than Geoff could have done it. Seriously, you sound deeper and heavier than he did, probably because he had to lighten quite a bit to do this song. Don't change a thing.

Same with Xam. Sure your voice is "lighter" than either Geoff or our own Thanos. Who cares?

These are true covers, not just an attempt to sound like the original. For me, the technical aspects were spot on. Pitch accuracy and relevant volume and you both had that, in your own ways. Which leaves the artistic intent. And you both had that, too. You sang from the heart and that is golden.

Yes, technical exercise and practice reinforces the technical aspect and never neglect that. But always sing from the heart, like you did, here.

This is a beautiful thread and bless Keith for starting it and bless everyone who has participated in it.

Thanks Ron for your comments, heheh!

I wish I could sing it very edgy like Geoff, haha But I still haven't developed that kind of strenght yet, and still have hooours to work on my passaggio :'( ha ha. Of course I know I won't sound like him.. but you know I mean the intention of the voice, he heh

I have progressed a lot on my support in these last days, as I am reading the CVT book, and I have had the time to just think about sensations and muscles.

I think ballet has developed a control over my diafragm and abdominal muscles that I wasn't aware of so I am reeeally going to take advantage of that.

In a week or two I'll think of adventuring again on a Queensrÿche song :P

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Thanks Ron for your comments, heheh!

I wish I could sing it very edgy like Geoff, haha But I still haven't developed that kind of strenght yet, and still have hooours to work on my passaggio :'( ha ha. Of course I know I won't sound like him.. but you know I mean the intention of the voice, he heh

I have progressed a lot on my support in these last days, as I am reading the CVT book, and I have had the time to just think about sensations and muscles.

I think ballet has developed a control over my diafragm and abdominal muscles that I wasn't aware of so I am reeeally going to take advantage of that.

In a week or two I'll think of adventuring again on a Queensrÿche song :P

That's the secret magic pill. Just keep working. You will never be "finished." I am not. So, don't wait until you are "finished" to share a song. Each one is a snapshot in time of where you were in your voice.

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wow great thread it's a long time I didn't posted anything here...

I spent more time in some italian forums were I'm involved as noderator (and I'm still)

But I never forget tis forum and many of you guys that gave me ever precious feedback (I ever remember ronws as one of these).

I love Queensryche but never recorded anything you gave me a good input to do it with this wonderful thread. As I'll be able (here in this pc firewall blocks all audio source as box soundcloud youtube etc...) at home, I'll hear all your tracks...

Have a good day... (morning evening night.. as where you are all over the world...)

Cheers from Italy

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