Any future for a Sinatra-like voice?

[tomasmk]

Hi all

I was wondering if you, experienced people, would mind helping a newbie like me (I started with piano, guitar and singing this year) understand the potentials and limitations of his voice.

A friend of mine, a very talented piano player and opera singer, has been helping me out develop my vocal skills. He says I have a beautiful voice with a good range (2 octaves, from G to G). He says that because of the "feel" of it (very deep), I can sing songs like the ones of Sinatra or of Argentinian Tango, for example. He thinks I could be very good at it.

He said, tho, that I have no future in other musical styles like rock or pop, since the voices in there are softer and more "girly", even those that have my same vocal range.

Problem is, even if I enjoy Sinatra, I do realize that genre's big time was 50 years ago, and today, I could do very little with it...besides, the music I really enjoy is rock, like Bon Jovi or Aerosmith or Bryan Adams, or pop, like Duran Duran, Maroon 5, etc etc.

Honestly, I'm not really interested in going any further with singing if i'll never be good at singing the songs I love.

I wonder if theres anyone that has experienced a similar problem, and if theres a way to deal with it and my friend is wrong, or if its just the fate that comes with our vocal chords...any advice ? any "emotional" rock or pop singers with Sinatra-like voices?

[DoverOs]

Your friend it completely wrong. Rock and pop are not soft at all. Rock is really twangy, pop is very high and chesty. It's a matter of how you use your muscles, not how you sound.

From the sound of it, you might have a dramatic tone to your voice, which actually gives you more space to use different styles. It never ceases to amaze me how many dramatic singers think their chest voice is boring, but I guess it's a matter of taste.

The only styles I've never been able to sing well is screams, growls, and rasps. So, shoot for your rock and roll goal : P

[Guest]

I don't see how someone could just pigeon hole you into one genre. If you can sing and sing well (as you suggest) then I would say there is a lot you could do. Why not post a sample and let the crowd decide? :)

[VideoHere]

you can take your voice just about anywhere it needs to go, if you are willing to put in the work.

don't assume you are relegated to a certain genre just because one person says so. you have to begin with selecting a voice teacher who specializes in the music you want to sing. some teachers have more conservative viewpoints that will limit you without you even realizing it.

here's lou gramm demonstrating a crooner style morphing into a strong rock voice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjdIA0Y4DLs

[Danielformica]

Your friend is not a friend he's jealous of your voice. You can sing anything you want the question is are you willing to put in the effort

[Felipe Carvalho]

I bet 5 dollars that your voice actually fits exactly this light description that you were told that you are not. Record a simple sample and send it over please.

And in either case, Daniel is correct.

[Elrathion]

Hi all

I was wondering if you, experienced people, would mind helping a newbie like me (I started with piano, guitar and singing this year) understand the potentials and limitations of his voice.

A friend of mine, a very talented piano player and opera singer, has been helping me out develop my vocal skills. He says I have a beautiful voice with a good range (2 octaves, from G to G). He says that because of the "feel" of it (very deep), I can sing songs like the ones of Sinatra or of Argentinian Tango, for example. He thinks I could be very good at it.

He said, tho, that I have no future in other musical styles like rock or pop, since the voices in there are softer and more "girly", even those that have my same vocal range.

Problem is, even if I enjoy Sinatra, I do realize that genre's big time was 50 years ago, and today, I could do very little with it...besides, the music I really enjoy is rock, like Bon Jovi or Aerosmith or Bryan Adams, or pop, like Duran Duran, Maroon 5, etc etc.

Honestly, I'm not really interested in going any further with singing if i'll never be good at singing the songs I love.

I wonder if theres anyone that has experienced a similar problem, and if theres a way to deal with it and my friend is wrong, or if its just the fate that comes with our vocal chords...any advice ? any "emotional" rock or pop singers with Sinatra-like voices?

I understand where the guy is coming from, but that shouldn't discourage you or define you. It's a fact that a lot of the current musical taste of young people goes to a lighter type of singing. (the light R n B, light pop, etc...) However I think there is actually a trend where people start to appriciate a bigger varity of ranges, colors, ... in the popular genre.

These days, singers like John Legend, Clay Aiken, Adam Lambert, Josh Groban, Adele, Jeniffer Hudson , ... have all shown that a more full sound is perfectly good for the current meta. Hell even Katy Perry ;>

So don't take his advice the bad way, just realise you can bring something unique to the spectrum of what is out there in the music which is popular at the moment. You can very well be a trendsetter.

[MDEW]

Music companies may pigeon hole artists but the general public may not. Johnny cash did a cover of Bob Seger "Turn the page". Did he sound like Bob? No. Did he try to? No. Did he do it any way? Yes. DIO covered Michael Jacksons "Billy Jean" Did he do it like Michael? No. Did he try to sound like Michael? No.

You can still sing the songs that you love. Who knows? Next year the big thing in rock may be a big deep Voice with a Sinatra smoothness to it.

[VideoHere]

yes, how about that african american singer with the dredlocks that sounded just like sinatra?

[tomasmk]

whoa your so supportive thanks very much you people are great

yes i do am willing to put a lot of effort to it, and yes i can try to develop a style that fits my voice, after checking out the singers some of you mentioned, i now realize that there does is a long wide road already traced by some awesome artists

i dont think i'm in the situation of recording a sample right now, cuse like i said, i'm a total noob, i really suck. i'm just trying hard to develop any potential i might have in music. but hell, as soon as i have something "acceptable", i'll remember to post it here so you can give a more informed oppinion

thanks!

[Elrathion]

I guess it's a disease of the time we live in Most people spend more time worrying about what they will get out of it before investing into it.

If you really love singing, then the time or effort shouldn't matter. And the result will be that people will love your singing. I'm not saying that you're going to be the big next thing, because that's a factor which has all together very few to do with just pure voice ability, but a combination of factors like right place right time right opportunity right marketing and so on.

[tomasmk]

FelipeCarvalho, I think that what my friend means is about but the "feel" or maybe "color" of my voice.

me, being from argentina, have quite a different feel to my voice than, lets say, englishmen, for example. their voice is very, very soft. even within the same range, they sound quite different.

to get an idea, you can think of sinatra, but better yet, listen to something from Carlos Gardel, he was the most successful argentinian tango singer, and ofc my voice will never be half of his, but just to get an idea

could you imagine this guy singing any of the modern pop songs?

[MDEW]

Pop music means popular music. Willy nelsons voice and style became POP because he became popular. Johnny Cash music was POP in his day because He became popular. Bob Dylan same thing. Each of the different Genras of music got there start from someone who sounded different from everyone else. The music companies were not behind the change. They want things to stay the same. So they know how to keep the hits comming. An individual style becomes popular because the puplic gets tired of the same old thing and someone is brave enough or dumb enough to go against to grain.

Shania Twain got very popular for a while. No one wanted her at the record companies. She wasn't quite country enough and she wasn't Rock enough. She made her album anyway. The public liked it. Now that style is also concidered POP.

The voice in your clip is nothing new. It does sound awesome. Don't get me wrong. The style of singing makes it sound different from rock not the voice itself.

[ronws]

Tomas, the difference between what you are hearing in your voice in Argentina and what you are hearing in english-speaking singers, recording tricks aside is how vowels are used. And then, of course, recording tricks. So, you probably have a voice similar to Harry Connick, Jr., who could also cover Sinatra pretty well.

As well as, in pop singing, there is less covering of the tone.

And others are right. I don't think your voice can be typed in the same year that you decide to start to learn how to sing.

And Elra is right, it is a sign of the times. The age of instant gratification, with ads for cell phones expressing how fast you get info updates. Our schools are to blame, as well. Kids do poorly in school and are still passed on to the next grade. So, they get the next level without doing anything.

To make matters worse, there are pop sensations that don't sing very well and their problematic singing is fixed in the studio with pro-tools, etc. And then they sound weak in concert. Or, they have a heavy dance routine in the show and lip-sync anyway. In which case, of course, the concert sounds as good as the studio because it is the studio recording. Though, they actually create loops for concerts so that it will, on purpose, sound a little different than the studio, to allow for live instruments on the stage.

Can someone trained in opera sing pop or rock? Yes they can, and quite well. Pat Benetar, Kip Winger, Ronnie Milsap all trained classically.

[tomasmk]

hey guys, i finally got my hands on a new phone that can record audio, so i sang this for you so you can give me your oppinoin about what i was asking in the first post.

(yes I know its way off key too many times, and the guitar isnt that good either...I started with music 6 months ago, and this is the best i got for now and i'm a newbie with the guitar too, so having to focus in playing it while singing doesnt helps either)

thanks!

http://www.2shared.com/video/BhayLYYO/AUD0044.html

http://www.2shared.com/video/EsSfOjUz/AUD0043.html

[mr-leonor99]

try to upload it on picosong, or soundcloud so we can hear it on streaming^^

[tomasmk]

sure sir, here it is

[mr-leonor99]

I think you've got a very deep voice, but your "very talented piano-opera singer" friend has been doing a crapy job believe me, did you know that axl rose, the amazing singer of guns'n'roses is a bass-baritone ? your voice type means nothing, I don't think that you're voice is that deep, but YOU sing in a way that can make it like that, you need to improve your technique, but I wouldn't recommend staying with that "skilled opera singer", try a singing methode(I've picked the CVT program), and if you like a song, just sing it, I think that this is not your true voice, you should first try to release yourself from that "classical" shit

[tomasmk]

well that is very interesting...the grat Axl did have a 4 octave range tho

i'll definetely check out that CVT method, thanks!

[Guest]

Hello tomasmk,

Ok...I will give it to you straight. But have an open mind here. I don't feel it is helpful to pull punches for then you would have a false sense of what to work on. First let me give you the good. I think the tone of your voice is very nice and I think with training it can be even nicer. But right now it is like and expensive painting...a work of art...buried under years of dust and cobwebs. There are many issues there like pronunciation, phrasing, the pitch was all over the place and it was off key very bad. But in the few spots where it was in tune your voice sounded very nice, although the words were pronounced poorly and mumbled mostly.

I think your voice may be low because you are making it low. That is because you don't know how to get it up high and resonating. I felt there was a higher you in there trying to come out. I think you need a lot of work but I actually think there is a good voice hiding in there somewhere. And one that sings more midrange that you may think.

Please don't give up. To be honest that was a poor recording but only because you don't have the training. Nothing more than typical mistakes. I hear something though....I want to see that painting cleaned up.

Go for it man!! Thanks for posting

[gno]

tomasmk - you can sing in any style you want no matter what voice you have. You've got the same equipment as anybody else. As others have said, your friend doesn't know what he is talking about.

I listened to your demo and you've got some serious pitch awareness issues going on. If you want to sing you're going to have to overcome this issue right away. With most other instruments pitch is controlled by hitting the right key, or fretting the right string. But the voice rely's on our own internal ability to control pitch. This comes naturally to most, but not all people. I beleive this can be overcome however I don't know how to help you with this issue. I've seen others like Steven Fraser help people with this problem.

[tomasmk]

hey, thank to you both, the advice is much apreciated.

Interestely enough, that is exactly what my friend has been telling me: that when I get a note in key (prolly by mistake, lol) it actually sounds pretty nice, but that the whole is worthless because of that pitch problem

i'll have to work hard on that, i've been checking the advices in here http://themodernvocalist.punbb-hosting.com/viewtopic.php?id=1514 will try asociating the notes with images and see how that comes out

so far my (sporadic) training consisted on singing scales at the piano. like CDEFGABC, DEFGABCD, and so on, until i reached the limit of my range. do you think this exercise actually useful for learning pitch?

[Guest]

I think it was slstone, a member here who suggested getting a mic and connecting it to a simple guitar tuner. Sing notes into it of your choice up the scale. ,ah, ah, ah ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, or ee, ee, ee...etc . Up the scale and down and try matching the pitch. Check the tuner to see where you're flat or sharp and correct it. Practice, practice, practice. Good luck and check back with progress reports!!

[tomasmk]

sure will do, thanks!

[WebAndNet.com]

I think you should think of it as a journey, with lots of fun along the way.

First, don't learn how to sing while playing the guitar. You want to "hear" and "think" about why your voice isn't doing this or that, and that's difficult as is, without the guitar. Also, playing guitar nearly always contorts one's body, and when learning, one wants best posture, as will be explained later on www.vocalposture.com.

I agree with your friend that you have a Sinatra and/or tango (though not Gardel) voice. It will likely take a lot of time to transform this into Freddie Mercury. Maybe you can go with lower pitched songs initially-- Jim Morrison, David Bowie (he has great range as well), Johy Kaye, David Clayton-Thomas, Tom Jones (David and Tom also have great range) and more. Lower pitched singers are more exciting live, because bass can really shake, excite, and move. Higher pitch singers can sound better on recordings; frequently because audio equipment, particularly radio, is better suited for such.

So, if seen as a journey, pick the songs you already have range for, and then work pitch upwards.