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Support/Breathing questions

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Consumingfire39
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Thank you for the responses in my other thread.

As far as breathing goes, I have a few things I am unsure of:

When inhaling, I know how to take a very low breath and I can get very good extention in my stomach, back, and sides. What I can't do is get the breath up higher into my intercostals. For me, it is much easier to support and inhale while I hunched forward but when I am standing straight up and opening up my chest it is much more difficult. I can get my ribs to expand and feel it in my intercostals but when I do that, I am not getting the expansion and activation in the lower areas that I usually am doing well.

To get that full breath should I first be expanding near my waist and then my ribs expand/widen? Should I have my ribs very open at the start? Should I start the expansion in the intercostal area? Any advice would be appreciated.

Also, as far as the onset of a note, what is the proper procedure? Should this start down low or just be drawn out of the breath I already have? Should I take the breath and then sing, or almost do them simultaneously?

Thank you for your time and any feedback is welcomed.

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Thank you for the responses in my other thread.

As far as breathing goes, I have a few things I am unsure of:

When inhaling, I know how to take a very low breath and I can get very good extention in my stomach, back, and sides. What I can't do is get the breath up higher into my intercostals. For me, it is much easier to support and inhale while I hunched forward but when I am standing straight up and opening up my chest it is much more difficult. I can get my ribs to expand and feel it in my intercostals but when I do that, I am not getting the expansion and activation in the lower areas that I usually am doing well.

To get that full breath should I first be expanding near my waist and then my ribs expand/widen? Should I have my ribs very open at the start? Should I start the expansion in the intercostal area? Any advice would be appreciated.

Also, as far as the onset of a note, what is the proper procedure? Should this start down low or just be drawn out of the breath I already have? Should I take the breath and then sing, or almost do them simultaneously?

Thank you for your time and any feedback is welcomed.

Nope this is all some BS and misinformation.

Never sacrifice posture to feel the breath travel to a certain area. The movement is very subtle when you do it correctly. Maybe I will post a video soon since writing explanations can only get people so far.

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Not all of it is BS Izz, but I agree that when you are going to actually use it on singing, the process should be just inhaling and doing it.

ConsumingFire, yes, when you bow forward, you lock the front of your body, contracting the abdominal wall. Thus, by performing a low breath, the only place that can expand is your back, making it easy to feel the intercostals working. You need to train until you can do it easily when standing up, which, as with the other question on another thread, is not easy.

You can expand it higher, but the pressure is considerable, you need a lot of strenght. In here I disagree with Izz completely, there is nothing subtle on this. Its a very strong action and it is very demanding, but it makes life sooo much easier...

Dunno if it will help you, but here is how the support technique I use happens: from the inhaling, a small tension happens on my abdominal wall, the navel becomes firm, I feel the lower back expanding together with lateral expansion of the rib cage. For the lower range, this is enough, for higher notes, I simply inhale more, using more expansion upper on the back.

So I virtually use no forward expansion of the abdomen, but I do use the compression of those muscles from the start.

And this is veeeeery relaxing, feels great.

Was it clear?

The trainning begins lowering the breath and slowly bringing the intercostals to have tonus and control.

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i agree with felipe.

when you are supporting standing straight up really strongly (example: you've got a powerful high note which needs solid breath pressure to keep it strong and (especially) sustained) it can be very demanding.

but as you get stronger, you'll begin to sense more of the expansion.

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Not all of it is BS Izz, but I agree that when you are going to actually use it on singing, the process should be just inhaling and doing it.

ConsumingFire, yes, when you bow forward, you lock the front of your body, contracting the abdominal wall. Thus, by performing a low breath, the only place that can expand is your back, making it easy to feel the intercostals working. You need to train until you can do it easily when standing up, which, as with the other question on another thread, is not easy.

You can expand it higher, but the pressure is considerable, you need a lot of strenght. In here I disagree with Izz completely, there is nothing subtle on this. Its a very strong action and it is very demanding, but it makes life sooo much easier...

Dunno if it will help you, but here is how the support technique I use happens: from the inhaling, a small tension happens on my abdominal wall, the navel becomes firm, I feel the lower back expanding together with lateral expansion of the rib cage. For the lower range, this is enough, for higher notes, I simply inhale more, using more expansion upper on the back.

So I virtually use no forward expansion of the abdomen, but I do use the compression of those muscles from the start.

And this is veeeeery relaxing, feels great.

Was it clear?

The trainning begins lowering the breath and slowly bringing the intercostals to have tonus and control.

What I am saying is the motion will never be an exaggerated motion that "only" exists on the front side of the body. The expansion should occur more like a 360 degree breath which is evenly distributed between the transverse abdominis, interior/exterior obliques, intercostals, latissimis dorsi, and the quadratus lumborum.

Regardless of how much you try to breathe correctly it will not be correct if the posture is not aligned and the pelvis isn't neutral.

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When inhaling, ... For me, it is much easier to support and inhale while I hunched forward but when I am standing straight up and opening up my chest it is much more difficult.

Ha, I thought I was the only one that had this issue!

If you sit down and lean forward a bit, you can really feel the expansion. Standing up straight was/is harder to coordinate (speaking for me here).

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Stand up straight, though not rigid. Let the belly expand and the air will be drawn in without any exaggerated effort. onset the note and compression in the abs. Quit worrying about that intercostal stuff.

The value of Iz holding his arms above is head is to, in fact, immobilize the rib cage so that you will quit depending on it.

Imagine your lungs being in your belly.

Redneck engineering by ronws.

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Iz- GREAT FREAKIN' VIDEO. Seriously. I SUCK at this and was always confused about this or that. When you say "maintain the expansion" at the end, I've always thought that meant pushing the ribs out horizontally. It sounds like you mean to kind of keep that .... er.... uh... "Superman" kind of chest going. Is that correct? I'll definitely be downloading the video.

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Stand up straight, though not rigid. Let the belly expand and the air will be drawn in without any exaggerated effort. onset the note and compression in the abs. Quit worrying about that intercostal stuff.

The value of Iz holding his arms above is head is to, in fact, immobilize the rib cage so that you will quit depending on it.

Imagine your lungs being in your belly.

Redneck engineering by ronws.

Exactly! The rib cage must stay high and buoyant.

This is the only way to truly support the voice properly. The sad part about this is this is how 90% of people were born breathing.

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Iz- GREAT FREAKIN' VIDEO. Seriously. I SUCK at this and was always confused about this or that. When you say "maintain the expansion" at the end, I've always thought that meant pushing the ribs out horizontally. It sounds like you mean to kind of keep that .... er.... uh... "Superman" kind of chest going. Is that correct? I'll definitely be downloading the video.

Yes that's correct!

All you need to do is maintain that feeling of inhalation. This is what it means to "sing on the gesture of an inhalation" or "hold back the breath pressure with the body" or "support"

All it means is to keep the body open and prevent it from collapsing.

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good video zay, just want to add that when you achieve advanced levels of strength and development in this (yes, here i go again with the strength inference) it will almost feel like no air is needed. nothing needs to be "actively" taken in....the inhale becomes the product of the expansion.

the air you need (which feels surprisingly very little) is simply there. you also develop the ability to sneak in very quick catch breaths, (similar to when you're startled by something) which will give you a boost of power in between lines or even in between words!

some singers are so skilled at this one, that you can't even detect a breath had been taken.

this ability to quick breathe can really provide a serious boost of intensity and dynamics or simply be a great thing to help you through a difficult passage in a song without having to worry about the power trailing off at the end of the line you're singing.

if you listen to real amateur singers, some have a tendency to trail off as they finish off a phrase or a line in a song, which sounds weak, and can cause you to sing under the note or go flat.

and on top of all this, when the support is right, you will find constriction and tention in the throat much less of an issue.

so work that body.....lol!!!

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Here is a video explanation.

I hope this helps.

I just watched this video and all the other ones you have on youtube. Every one of them has been EXTREMELY helpful. You definitely know how to sing and can yourself sing. Thanks for the help and comments on here.

PS. I would destroy you in a sprint. You may have me in every single aspect of singing but I would put a hurtin' on you there.

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good video zay, just want to add that when you achieve advanced levels of strength and development in this (yes, here i go again with the strength inference) it will almost feel like no air is needed. nothing needs to be "actively" taken in....the inhale becomes the product of the expansion.

the air you need (which feels surprisingly very little) is simply there. you also develop the ability to sneak in very quick catch breaths, (similar to when you're startled by something) which will give you a boost of power in between lines or even in between words!

some singers are so skilled at this one, that you can't even detect a breath had been taken.

this ability to quick breathe can really provide a serious boost of intensity and dynamics or simply be a great thing to help you through a difficult passage in a song without having to worry about the power trailing off at the end of the line you're singing.

if you listen to real amateur singers, some have a tendency to trail off as they finish off a phrase or a line in a song, which sounds weak, and can cause you to sing under the note or go flat.

and on top of all this, when the support is right, you will find constriction and tention in the throat much less of an issue.

so work that body.....lol!!!

No worries Bob I agree with you haha :)

When you train these aspects they tend to go into auto-pilot as time goes by.

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I just watched this video and all the other ones you have on youtube. Every one of them has been EXTREMELY helpful. You definitely know how to sing and can yourself sing. Thanks for the help and comments on here.

PS. I would destroy you in a sprint. You may have me in every single aspect of singing but I would put a hurtin' on you there.

I'm glad my videos helped you.

I would love to see you sprint since you can destroy me LOL

What are your times in the 40 yard dash, 100 meter dash, or 200 meter dash?

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I'm glad my videos helped you.

I would love to see you sprint since you can destroy me LOL

What are your times in the 40 yard dash, 100 meter dash, or 200 meter dash?

I ran 4.56 in college (A few years ago) at 236 pounds. I am around 200 pounds now and could probably crush that with any training.

That was kind of a joke anyways. I can't really tell how fast you are at all because there is no real reference in the video.

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LOL I understand :) 4.56 is very fast especially at 236 wow! I run 4.32 at 195, but 4.56@236 is simply amazing. Your weight room numbers must be off the chain lol

I never could do much on bench press due to a shoulder that was hurt for years. Upper-body strength for most football positions is of little value. As undersized as I was, if I was in a position where I was trying to bench press people or thrown them backwards, I had already lost. My job was to get off the ball and get under/around people and into the backfield.

We never went heavy on any olympic lifts but I was very explosive on what we did and I did have one of highest squats on the team. I was as fast as any of the WRs/DBs for a 10 yard split but they (The fastest guys) would pull away a little bit in the next 10 yards and then the gap would basically maintain through the last 20.

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Thanks for the video izzle1989, very helpful.

I also find it interesting when you say "just keep that expansion", if that's really all there is to that ever elusive "true support", why doesn't everyone just explain it as simple as you?

"Breath in, expand, keep that feeling going, now sing!"

It seems everyone explains how to take the breath, what parts should be moving, but than doesn't really say how to... well... "support" with it.

So thanks for the explanation.

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Thanks for the video izzle1989, very helpful.

I also find it interesting when you say "just keep that expansion", if that's really all there is to that ever elusive "true support", why doesn't everyone just explain it as simple as you?

"Breath in, expand, keep that feeling going, now sing!"

It seems everyone explains how to take the breath, what parts should be moving, but than doesn't really say how to... well... "support" with it.

So thanks for the explanation.

it's not really that simple. if you don't do it corectly you can end up engaging tension instead of relieving it.

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